Newbie with type 1.5 saying hello!

[Grumpy Dragon]

Anyone out there who is vegan and type DM1.5 ?

 

[SB2015]

Good morning @Grumpy Dragon.

Not a vegan so no help on that score but just wanted to welcome you to the forum. Greetings from another late starter with T1 (aged 53 at diagnosis). It would be great to hear how you manage your condition. MDI or pump? Libre?

 

[Inka]

Hi @Grumpy Dragon 🙂

I’m not vegan but when I eat vegan meals for a few days, I find I need less insulin. Obviously it will be different for you as you’re starting from a vegan place, but something to bear in mind if you’ve been recommended insulin doses that aren’t working quite right for you.

What insulins do you take? Were you diagnosed as 1.5 because you have some insulin resistance? How did your diagnosis come about?

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hi @Grumpy Dragon 🙂

I’m not vegan but when I eat vegan meals for a few days, I find I need less insulin. Obviously it will be different for you as you’re starting from a vegan place, but something to bear in mind if you’ve been recommended insulin doses that aren’t working quite right for you.

What insulins do you take? Were you diagnosed as 1.5 because you have some insulin resistance? How did your diagnosis come about?

That‘s interesting @Inka... Since we have moved to mostly vegan evening meals I’ve found just the opposite. simply vegan versions of *the thing* generally seem to have more carbs in than the meat version - lentils, beans, squash, root veg... Almost everything seems to ‘count’! The milks don’t, but I din’t generally use enough milk to alter the count for me

 

[Inka]

Yes, veggie and vegan versions usually have more carbs but personally I’ve found that, say, 40g carbs of a vegan meal with my normal bolus for 40g carbs means I go low and need to top up with a snack later, if that makes sense? I’m not sure of the reason - more fibre?? less fat?? less protein?? all three of those things together?? I find the effect heightened if I eat only vegan for a few days.

Obviously it depends on what the vegan meal is as baked beans and chips could be vegan, but I wouldn’t get the ‘less insulin’ effect with that particular meal. So perhaps it’s the choice of carbs as well.

I watched an interesting video on YouTube about a Type 1 trying a low-fat vegan diet and getting a big reduction in insulin. My meals aren’t as low fat but are on the lower side. It is interesting though 🙂

As with everything diabetic, it depends on the individual 🙂

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Yes, veggie and vegan versions usually have more carbs but personally I’ve found that, say, 40g carbs of a vegan meal with my normal bolus for 40g carbs means I go low and need to top up with a snack later, if that makes sense? I’m not sure of the reason - more fibre?? less fat?? less protein?? all three of those things together?? I find the effect heightened if I eat only vegan for a few days.

Fascinating!

Are you counting pulses, beans and legumes as their full carb content?

At least you‘ve noticed it and can work around it in the future 🙂

 

[Inka]

Fascinating!

Are you counting pulses, beans and legumes as their full carb content?

At least you‘ve noticed it and can work around it in the future 🙂

I count pulses, legumes and beans if they make up a large bulk of the meal eg if I used 200g lentils in a lasagne sauce, but if I only have a small amount eg a few chickpeas on a salad, I don’t bother.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I count pulses, legumes and beans if they make up a large bulk of the meal eg if I used 200g lentils in a lasagne sauce, but if I only have a small amount eg a few chickpeas on a salad, I don’t bother.

Ah interesting... This came up in another thread recently, and I’ve a link I must look up again that had details of how the carbs in pulses were broken down differently (more slowly) than other starchy carbs, and that some were not accessible at all. I know one HCP who was concerned about a recipe/carb counting app that used full carb values for pulses because he felt it risked hypos for anyone using it to calculate doses.

I wonder if it’s the carbs in pulses in vegan meals which are adding extra complications for you?

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Sorry @Grumpy Dragon - unintentional thread drift 😱

 

[Inka]

I can’t find the video at the moment, but I’ve googled and apparently the cause is increased insulin sensitivity due to the diet. That makes sense but I’m still not sure what causes the sensitivity precisely. Will google again later!

It can’t just be the pulse/legume issue as it happens with vegan meals that don’t have any pulses, etc in, I find.

 

[Ditto]

Hello and welcome. 🙂

 

[Inka]

@everydayupsanddowns and @Grumpy Dragon I’ve started a new thread so as to not clog up this one:

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/a-vegan-diet-equals-less-insulin.89443/

@Grumpy Dragon I hope it’s of interest to you that your vegan diet might be a good one for diabetes 🙂

 

[Grumpy Dragon]

Good morning @Grumpy Dragon.

Not a vegan so no help on that score but just wanted to welcome you to the forum. Greetings from another late starter with T1 (aged 53 at diagnosis). It would be great to hear how you manage your condition. MDI or pump? Libre?

Just about to start basal insulin this week (hopefully) so I really am a newbie ! I would be very grateful for any suggestions you have on treatments as I have found so far that having this type of diabetes is very DIY. I diagnosed myself, had to go private to get the diagnosis confirmed (and check I didn't have cancer as had lost 20kg in 2 months!) and even now my GP has me down as Type 2-they all appear to be convinced I have type 2 with poor control (and that's a pejorative term, isnt it?) despite only becoming ill end of May - I've been referred to the wrong diabetic clinic and then offered a referral to the hospital service but it could take months because of Covid . I am just really lucky to have private health insurance- although even they dont want to keep paying for too long as apparently 'diabetes should be diagnosed and then managed by your GP- we will only pay for diagnosis and treatment plan'.
I had no idea having a rare diabetes was so stressful ! So good to meet someone (virtually) with the same diagnosis.

 

[Grumpy Dragon]

@everydayupsanddowns and @Grumpy Dragon I’ve started a new thread so as to not clog up this one:

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/a-vegan-diet-equals-less-insulin.89443/

@Grumpy Dragon I hope it’s of interest to you that your vegan diet might be a good one for diabetes 🙂

yes,definitely !
I asked my consultant about eating pizza ( I work with someone with type 1 and she said pizza is just so much hassle working out the insulin she doesn't bother), the consultant said one piece with cheese isn't too much of a problem because the cheese slows the carb release, I asked him , does vegan cheese have the same effect? and he said he had no idea!

 

[Inka]

@Grumpy Dragon It depends on the vegan cheese. It’s not so much of the fact it’s cheese as to the fact it adds a fair amount of fat to the pizza. The main issue I find with pizza is that it’s easy to eat too much if it’s a shop-bought one, and then it’s the carbs that need watching. So you could find a difference between home-made and processed pizza. I don’t eat vegan cheese normally (I often just sprinkle nutritional yeast and ground nuts for a ‘cheesy’ topping, so I can comment on how it works.

The reason I asked about your Type 1.5 diagnosis is that there seem to be a number of terms that have fairly varying meanings eg Type 1.5 and LADA. I’d understood Type 1.5 to be kind of between 1 and 2, so like 1 but with an element of insulin resistance. If that’s the case for you, it looks like a healthy vegan diet could help reduce your insulin resistance, so good news.

How are your blood sugars at the moment?

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Sorry to hear you have had such a rough ride @Grumpy Dragon

T1 is something of a rarity for many GPs, and LADA even more so.

We have a long history of new members arriving having been classified as T2, but whose rapid onset... weight loss etc have prompted questions from other members and later a reclassification occurs to much relief all round!

Thankfully you’ve already had the extra checks and had a LADA diagnosis. it doesn’t sound like your GP is handling the situation well (and they could do with consulting the NHS Language Matters guidance!).

LADA should be treated as T1 (so Multiple Daily Injection basal:bolus) as far as I understand it, which would usually be at the hospital clinic. But as you say... it’s not the easiest time to get appointments organised

 

[Grumpy Dragon]

@Grumpy Dragon It depends on the vegan cheese. It’s not so much of the fact it’s cheese as to the fact it adds a fair amount of fat to the pizza. The main issue I find with pizza is that it’s easy to eat too much if it’s a shop-bought one, and then it’s the carbs that need watching. So you could find a difference between home-made and processed pizza. I don’t eat vegan cheese normally (I often just sprinkle nutritional yeast and ground nuts for a ‘cheesy’ topping, so I can comment on how it works.

The reason I asked about your Type 1.5 diagnosis is that there seem to be a number of terms that have fairly varying meanings eg Type 1.5 and LADA. I’d understood Type 1.5 to be kind of between 1 and 2, so like 1 but with an element of insulin resistance. If that’s the case for you, it looks like a healthy vegan diet could help reduce your insulin resistance, so good news.

How are your blood sugars at the moment?

dreadful because I am still waiting to start insulin (I was referred to the Type 2 clinic and when they realsied I was a LADA (which just sounds like a small Russian car!), they said they couldn't see me), I'm hoping for a call from the practice nurse at the GP surgery tomorrow to arrange an appointment and get it prescribed, limping along with Gliclazide and Metformin atm. As I understand it LADA is an autoimmune disease where your body destroys your islets in your pancreas, it becomes insulin dependent over a few weeks, maybe months if you are lucky, so similar to Type 1 but not such an acute onset but can still end up in a diabetic coma if its missed. Its not the same as Type 2 where your body produces insulin but your cells can't read the message ('resistance') and some people progress to 'insulin requiring' where they need more insulin than the body can produce to control blood sugars - this can often be reduced or even cured by weight loss. Unfortunately this is not true of type 1 or 1.5, we are stuck with little or no insulin and are dependent on insulin for life.

 

[Inka]

@Grumpy Dragon How infuriating! So many adults are misdiagnosed as Type 2 and it annoys me. Type 1 is not just a childhood thing.

I really hope you get the insulin soon. I have zero faith in the ‘diabetes expert’ nurses at GP surgeries as their knowledge is usually lacking. Watch out that they dont continue to treat you as Type 2 by prescribing an inappropriate insulin regime.