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Newbie here after suffering lots of hypos

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

Joseyjo

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
Hi everyone
I was diagnosed type 1 last year after a very bad case of necrotizing pancreatitis. I've been struggling but doing ok. I had a severe hypo in my sleep (0.8!) but my husband came to the rescue and I've not had a bad one since. I am getting hypos regularly (4-5 a week) but I'm also getting very aware when one is coming on. I was made redundant last year and have not yet returned to work. I am starting to find that I don't want to go out much though because it's just too much of a worry. So basically I've joined up because I don't know anyone else with diabetes and just looking for more info/advice.
Sorry if I've waffled
 
Hi everyone
I was diagnosed type 1 last year after a very bad case of necrotizing pancreatitis. I've been struggling but doing ok. I had a severe hypo in my sleep (0.8!) but my husband came to the rescue and I've not had a bad one since. I am getting hypos regularly (4-5 a week) but I'm also getting very aware when one is coming on. I was made redundant last year and have not yet returned to work. I am starting to find that I don't want to go out much though because it's just too much of a worry. So basically I've joined up because I don't know anyone else with diabetes and just looking for more info/advice.
Sorry if I've waffled
Welcome, I'm sure you will find lots of support and help to cope with your situation from other Type 1's, but a bit more information about what medications you are on and what dietary regime and testing you are to following would help people make appropriate suggestions.
It is good that you have awareness that the hypos are coming on so you can take action to head them off. It is important that you have things readily available to treat the hypos, a small can full sugar coke, jelly babies, glucose tablets are things people have stashed everywhere so they can react asap to the symptoms.
 
Welcome to the forum @Josyejo
Sounds as if you have been through a tough time recently so it is not surprising you are feeling anxious.

Four to five hypos a week is not great.
Have you discussed this with your diabetes team? And are you able to adjust your insulin? What insulin regime are you on?

Sorry for the questions ...
When I get a hypo, I try to understand what caused it and work out what I would do differently next time.
Some hypos can appear to be inexplicable but usually it is down to miscalculating the carbs in my meal or not considering some exercise.

With regard to your anxiety, it could be useful to discuss this with your diabetes team too. They may be able to arrange some therapy sessions for you to assist.

I recommend taking action now rather than waiting and it getting worse - it is good that you have identified a problem.

Good luck.
 
Thanks both.
I am on levemir morning and evening and novorapid 3 times/day before meals. I was initially struggling to keep my blood sugars below 15 after my pancreatitis as I was very poorly with it for months. Now I'm pretty much in single figures. I'm trying so hard to keep below 8, and I think that is why I'm having so many hypos. I've recently cut out bread, potatoes and pasta and hoping that I won't need to rely on novorapid so much. I guess I've still got a lot to learn and my diabetes team were great initially as when I came out of hospital I didn't have a clue at all. I'm kind of a 'get on with it' type of person and don't really like to bother anyone with my problems
 
Thanks both.
I am on levemir morning and evening and novorapid 3 times/day before meals. I was initially struggling to keep my blood sugars below 15 after my pancreatitis as I was very poorly with it for months. Now I'm pretty much in single figures. I'm trying so hard to keep below 8, and I think that is why I'm having so many hypos. I've recently cut out bread, potatoes and pasta and hoping that I won't need to rely on novorapid so much. I guess I've still got a lot to learn and my diabetes team were great initially as when I came out of hospital I didn't have a clue at all. I'm kind of a 'get on with it' type of person and don't really like to bother anyone with my problems
I think if you are having problems you should very definitely 'bother' your diabetic team as that is what they are there for and it may be something very easily adjusted which would prevent something more serious happening.
I will leave it to others to comment on your diet but I suspect you may have reduced your carbs too much for the insulin you are having. Don't forget your body is having to get used to this new situation it finds it's self in.
 
Welcome @Joseyjo 🙂 Sorry to hear about your hypos. It can be terrifying when you drop so low and it can really knock your confidence so I understand why you’re anxious. I also understand why you don’t want to bother your team. I’m very independent too. But I do think this is one of those occasions where you need to talk to them.

I think you’ve probably identified a possible cause yourself - ie you’re trying too hard to stay below 8. Even people without diabetes don’t manage that. They can go up to the 10s on occasion. The targets for Type 1 allow for the fact that we’ll never do as good a job as our pancreas does. They are not the same as the targets for a diet-treated Type 2. I suggest you ease off on your control. You don’t have to not control things - just loosen the reins slightly.

You also seem to be eating more of a Type 2 diet. Type 1s don’t need to cut out bread, pasta, etc. The recommended diet is the same healthy diet recommended for people without diabetes. There is no magic diet for Type 1. I thought similar to you when I first got it. I got obsessed with cutting out insulin, not eating properly, etc. Now I eat well and have excellent control. It makes things so much easier.

Another thought - you mention pancreatitis. Could you actually have Type 3c diabetes rather than Type 1? Do you take anything like Creon? Are you sure you’re able to absorb/use your food ok? If not, could that be contributing to the hypos?
 
Thank you Inka. Yes, I do actually have type 3c, I think, but I was advised to treat it the same as type 1? And yes, I do take creon. Not absorbing food was something that I never thought about, that's a very good point.
 
You should ask your Diabetes team about the Libre 2 system that checks your blood glucose levels and can sound an alarm if you are going low. Available on the NHS and has woken me up a few times recently to take some glucose tablets or a glug of Lucozade.
 
That sounds ideal Robert459. I'm hoping to have a consultant telephone appointment (if it's not cancelled for the 4th time!) in a couple of weeks so will definitely mention it to him. Thank you
 
I'm hoping to have a consultant telephone appointment (if it's not cancelled for the 4th time!) in a couple of weeks so will definitely mention it to him.
Yes, definitely do that (likely the consultant will suggest it anyway). Apart from the alarms, it'll show you 24 hour graphs of what's happening, and maybe that will show patterns which'll help.

(Latest tweet I've seen is that Libre prescriptions are now just over half of people with Type 1. In Wales they've said it should be the normal way of monitoring.)
 
Hi @Joseyjo and welcome

I'm sorry to hear about your hypos they are very unsettling and can really shake your confidence. Gradually you start to feel safer in your skin as time goes by.

There is a free 2 week trial of Abbotts Libre if you meet the criteria - just a few simple questions https://sample.freestyle.abbott/gb-en/freestylelibre.html

You need a compatible phone, download the App and use the phone as the reader to scan the sensor. The sensor lasts for 14 days and is a great way to see what's going on around the clock, which way your glucose is going and also see if there are any obvious patterns if/when you go hypo.
 
Thank you Inka. Yes, I do actually have type 3c, I think, but I was advised to treat it the same as type 1? And yes, I do take creon. Not absorbing food was something that I never thought about, that's a very good point.

Yes, as far as I understand Type 3c is treated like Type 1 🙂 I’m Type 1 myself and so don’t know much about Type 3c but I presumed there were differences and additional considerations, so slightly different in action although similar in treatment?

There have been some Type 3cs here who’ve had erratic blood sugars as though they randomly produce a reasonable amount of insulin. This has made control harder for them, understandably. Is that something that might apply to you?

I didn’t ask above but are you carb-counting and adjusting your own bolus insulin? If so,perhaps your ratios need tweaking. Also, do you have a target blood sugar to go to bed on? I’m on a pump now but was told to be around 8 before bed when on injections, so I had a bedtime snack if necessary. When do you take your evening Levemir?
 
it'll show you 24 hour graphs of what's happening, and maybe that will show patterns which'll help.
Yes, the graphs are really useful. They showed how quickly my BG was going down overnight and allowed me, rather than a DM consultant or nurse without the info, to reduce my basal to achieve a flat overnight curve. Went from 58 units down to 30 (now 32). Libre now has an on-line system where your DM team can also view the Libre results, including the graphs, remotely.

I "love" the Libre and NO, I don't have any association with them other than as a happy user.
 
Yes, as far as I understand Type 3c is treated like Type 1 🙂 I’m Type 1 myself and so don’t know much about Type 3c but I presumed there were differences and additional considerations, so slightly different in action although similar in treatment?

There have been some Type 3cs here who’ve had erratic blood sugars as though they randomly produce a reasonable amount of insulin. This has made control harder for them, understandably. Is that something that might apply to you?

I didn’t ask above but are you carb-counting and adjusting your own bolus insulin? If so,perhaps your ratios need tweaking. Also, do you have a target blood sugar to go to bed on? I’m on a pump now but was told to be around 8 before bed when on injections, so I had a bedtime snack if necessary. When do you take your evening Levemir?
Yes, my husband did mention that maybe my pancreas randomly decides to work sometimes! Some days I will do exactly the same dose of novorapid for breakfast with exactly the same food and by lunch time my readings will be completely different. I take my levemir at 9am and 9pm. I am carb counting and find that my ratios do differ at different meal times. Thank you for your help
 
Welcome to the forum @Joseyjo

It sounds like you have well and truly got your head round things with adjusting your ratios for the different times of the day, carb counting and trying to identify reasons for things that go wrong in such a short amount of time. A big WELL DONE.

Severe hypos can be very scary and it is not surprising that these have knocked your confidence. It sounds like you have good support around you when dealing with this. However it would be good to reduce the hypos if you can, and we’ll worth talking to your team. Access to the Libre can really help with this. The alarms will help you to head off by catching the falls earlier. I would definitely ask your team about this, and as @helli said they are currently offering a free trial, so you could try that.

you mention that it is strange when you do exactly the same thing, same dose, same carbs but you get different outcomes. That is just what happens, and it is indeed very frustrating when Diabetes just doesn’t play by the rules. All we can do is the best we can, and then deal with the wobbles that arise. Looking back at what you have done helps to spot patterns, and the Libre would also feed a lot more information into this.

Your team are there to help you so don’t be afraid to ask them about things. Also fire away with any questions on here. I know I have learnt most of my diabetes stuff from others on here as it is based on practical tips from those living with the condition. No questions are considered silly. Just ask.
 
Hello @Joseyjo and welcome to the forum 🙂

I don't really have anything to add to the good advice you've already been given - just to say you are not alone. I'm type 1 and my pancreas doesn't seem to have quite worked that out yet - I'm still in the supposedly 1-year honeymoon period after well over 10 years with diabetes. I'm also very sensitive to insulin so I can have anything from 3 hypos in a week to 17 hypos in a week, and sometimes I have 3 or 4 in a day. I'm supposed to be aiming for no more than 7 a week, but no-one has explained that to my pancreas 🙄

The Libre has been a great help, I can often see when I'm about to have a hypo in time to prevent it, and though I still have a lot I don't often have very bad ones any more. Being able to scan 25-30 times a day (or more if you want) rather than being limited to finger-pricking maybe 8-10 times a day really boosts your confidence. It's also great to be able to scan if you wake up during the night, without having to get up.

Please do go back to eating carbs, you need to eat carbs when you're type 1/3c and on insulin, it's not like being type 2 - and please do bother your diabetes team!
 
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Just thought, one more thing - do you know how long Novorapid lasts in your system, and how long it takes to start working? I've found it helps to inject early for some meals to give the Novorapid a chance to get going before the food hits my system, which means fewer spikes, which means I'm less likely to inject more than I need because I'm trying to prevent spikes. I've also found that Novorapid hangs around for ages in my system, far longer than the 4 hours I was originally told it would last, so if I inject for a meal less than 5 hours after my previous meal I'm stacking insulin and far more likely to hypo later.
 
Now I'm pretty much in single figures. I'm trying so hard to keep below 8, and I think that is why I'm having so many hypos. I've recently cut out bread, potatoes and pasta and hoping that I won't need to rely on novorapid so much.

Lots of people do find that they need different ratios at different times of day, so don’t worry if things don’t line up neatly.

And I think most of us who use insulin will well recognise the description of the same doses and foods giving very different results. I think it’s because food and insulin are only part of the picture. There are lots of other things going on which affect BG, stress, excitement, levels of activity, changes in insulin sensitivity, even the weather!

It’s worth mentioning too that you perhaps don’t need to be quite so alarmed by the high numbers as you seem to be - especially id you can see that this is driving more hypos. I have always had the same tendency, so speak from experience. I always preferred to run at the lower end, but recent research, and in particular the data available from CGM have informed an international consensus on ‘time in range’. This shows that ideally we should be aiming for 70% (+) of time between 4 and 10, with no more than 4% below 4.0

So you can have around 25% of time above 10 and still have an HbA1c which reduces your risk of developing microvascular complications.

Hypos, even mild ones aren’t as innocuous as we can feel them, to be. Even though they are quick to treat. They change the brain, and over time your awareness can significantly reduce, making more severe hypos more likely. Hypos breed hypos (if you have one in a day you are more likely to have another), and they also can result in highs, which if corrected risk more hypos - so it can be a vicious cycle of the glucocoaster.

One of the biggest discoveries I made when first comparing notes with others online, was that the quickest way to reduce the number of highs I was having, was actually to concentrate on reducing hypos!

Good luck, and let us know how you get on 🙂
 
Hi @Joseyjo, I'm Type 3c following a total pancreatectomy in Feb 2020. Welcome to a unique club - with its own confusions!

Some medical "experts" categorise you as Type 1, because they recognise that other medics don't know what Type 3c is. There are so few of us. The suggestion put to me by my DSN was that she felt her own A&E wouldn't realise I'm insulin dependent, but with T1 on my notes, they would at least get that bit right, should I end up there! Others simply have no idea that T3c is different, ignoring that T1s have an autoimmune problem which causes diabetes, whereas T3cs have wider pancreatic problems. It's lazy, it's worrying, but it's a reality.

When it comes to GP's prescribing, they should at least treat you as T1, and with gentle but robust nudging from you, go that extra bit further. You are T1 with extra complications. I have the Libre 2 sensor and that has become a real game changer. Before that I increased my finger pricking to 10x daily and with that started to see some true BG control (and reduced HbA1c); but the Libre is so much better, with trend indication AND alarms. If you want to gain better control ask for Libre 2; there are very few motorists who set out in their car without a fuel gauge- and those who do are destined to run out of fuel.

However I have installed the Diabox app on my android phone and now have true Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM), as opposed to Flash monitoring, (ie it is continuously stored there for 8 hrs but available only on request) and I'm now getting readings every 5 mins, with better trend indication, showing the rate of change from 0.1 to 0.5, along with 2 upper and 2 lower alarms. For me the low limit of Libre 2 was too low! By the time it alarmed at the top limit of 5.6 I was already crashing and I frequently went hypo before the Jelly Babies etc kicked in. Now I have it set at 6.0 by day, reduced to 4.3 by night, with the Urgent low alarm at 4.0, which loudly, but happily for me, wakes me during the night.

I have a brittle form of diabetes with significant rapid swings from high to low and back again, which I have recently found out is moderately common amongst T3cs . I can get from 9.9 to 4.1 in 10 minutes. The yo-yoing is tiresome and debilitating as well as being bad in the longer term. Libre 2 with Diabox has greatly reduced that and I now usually spend over 80% of "time in range", ie between 4 and 10. I still have the odd hypo, and a few more "low glucose events", so this remains work in progress and probably will for a while yet. I'm still learning: how to not overreact when low, thus reduce the rapid swing to high; and as I get braver to correct with additional boluses when high, with little sign from CGM of that high reducing (but I'm still cautious about extra bolus, keen to avoid insulin stacking and then bringing a further rapid swing back to very low).

Incidentally, I was also trying to stay below 8 and abandoned that, a decision subsequently endorsed by the Endocrinologist I had a phone consultion with in July. While T3c is a small club, the range of pancreatic problems that categorises us as T3c is large - so we are all diiferent; a few T3cs don't even need insulin, neither basal or bosul, but other pancreatic functions are compromised. For me no pancreas has the only advantage that my insulin production is nil, so no chance of getting an unexpected insulin surge!

I have found Gary Scheiner's book "Think Like a Pancreas" most helpful. I take Creon on an industrial scale (according to the gastroenterologist) and I'm pretty sure I still get malabsorption after some meals; so while I fastidiously carb count I do get erratic days in my responses to insulin dosing. Some of that is explainable (sort of) but often isn't. I have different ratios for different times of day and my insulin sensitivity is different for when I'm normal, ie c. 5-7 and much more resistant when I'm above 10; I haven't really quantified that numerically - it feels more like a guesstimate than an accurate calculation!

Good luck with all of this. There's a lot to get your mind around, with what sometimes feels like an insurmountable number of factors that can affect your BG from minute to minute. But it is manageable, it just takes a bit of time and effort and accept that not every day is perfect!
 
Hi @Joseyjo, I'm Type 3c following a total pancreatectomy in Feb 2020. Welcome to a unique club - with its own confusions!

Some medical "experts" categorise you as Type 1, because they recognise that other medics don't know what Type 3c is. There are so few of us. The suggestion put to me by my DSN was that she felt her own A&E wouldn't realise I'm insulin dependent, but with T1 on my notes, they would at least get that bit right, should I end up there! Others simply have no idea that T3c is different, ignoring that T1s have an autoimmune problem which causes diabetes, whereas T3cs have wider pancreatic problems. It's lazy, it's worrying, but it's a reality.

When it comes to GP's prescribing, they should at least treat you as T1, and with gentle but robust nudging from you, go that extra bit further. You are T1 with extra complications. I have the Libre 2 sensor and that has become a real game changer. Before that I increased my finger pricking to 10x daily and with that started to see some true BG control (and reduced HbA1c); but the Libre is so much better, with trend indication AND alarms. If you want to gain better control ask for Libre 2; there are very few motorists who set out in their car without a fuel gauge- and those who do are destined to run out of fuel.

However I have installed the Diabox app on my android phone and now have true Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM), as opposed to Flash monitoring, (ie it is continuously stored there for 8 hrs but available only on request) and I'm now getting readings every 5 mins, with better trend indication, showing the rate of change from 0.1 to 0.5, along with 2 upper and 2 lower alarms. For me the low limit of Libre 2 was too low! By the time it alarmed at the top limit of 5.6 I was already crashing and I frequently went hypo before the Jelly Babies etc kicked in. Now I have it set at 6.0 by day, reduced to 4.3 by night, with the Urgent low alarm at 4.0, which loudly, but happily for me, wakes me during the night.

I have a brittle form of diabetes with significant rapid swings from high to low and back again, which I have recently found out is moderately common amongst T3cs . I can get from 9.9 to 4.1 in 10 minutes. The yo-yoing is tiresome and debilitating as well as being bad in the longer term. Libre 2 with Diabox has greatly reduced that and I now usually spend over 80% of "time in range", ie between 4 and 10. I still have the odd hypo, and a few more "low glucose events", so this remains work in progress and probably will for a while yet. I'm still learning: how to not overreact when low, thus reduce the rapid swing to high; and as I get braver to correct with additional boluses when high, with little sign from CGM of that high reducing (but I'm still cautious about extra bolus, keen to avoid insulin stacking and then bringing a further rapid swing back to very low).

Incidentally, I was also trying to stay below 8 and abandoned that, a decision subsequently endorsed by the Endocrinologist I had a phone consultion with in July. While T3c is a small club, the range of pancreatic problems that categorises us as T3c is large - so we are all diiferent; a few T3cs don't even need insulin, neither basal or bosul, but other pancreatic functions are compromised. For me no pancreas has the only advantage that my insulin production is nil, so no chance of getting an unexpected insulin surge!

I have found Gary Scheiner's book "Think Like a Pancreas" most helpful. I take Creon on an industrial scale (according to the gastroenterologist) and I'm pretty sure I still get malabsorption after some meals; so while I fastidiously carb count I do get erratic days in my responses to insulin dosing. Some of that is explainable (sort of) but often isn't. I have different ratios for different times of day and my insulin sensitivity is different for when I'm normal, ie c. 5-7 and much more resistant when I'm above 10; I haven't really quantified that numerically - it feels more like a guesstimate than an accurate calculation!

Good luck with all of this. There's a lot to get your mind around, with what sometimes feels like an insurmountable number of factors that can affect your BG from minute to minute. But it is manageable, it just takes a bit of time and effort and accept that not every day is perfect!
Thank you so much, that was very relatable! I have seen a couple of mentions of Think like a Pancreas, so will be ordering this today. I think maybe I have been comparing myself with type 1 too much and need to accept that type 3c is a little more complicated and stop being so hard on myself. I'm so pleased to have joined this forum as already I feel like I have had more useful information from this one post than I have from any of my medical team over the past year. Thank you everyone
 
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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
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