Needing more and more insulin for the same exact meal.

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Mbabazi

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Type 1.5 LADA
Hi all. I hope everyone is having a good weekend. I wanted to ask if anyone has experienced needing more and more insulin for the same meals. I'm a year into my type 1 or Lada diagnosis and I know from my initial checks I was still making some insulin so i used to have two eggs without insulin with only a small spike. Now I'm getting spikes just from that. Nothing else about my routine has changed. I'm a little heavier than when I was fort diagnosed. Does that change things.

Also my second question. Is one whether there is any benefit to taking less insulin. As in if I had a choice to eat a meal that needs 10 units of insulin and one of 7, am I better off for choosing the one requiring less insulin. If I was not thinking or worrying about weight and both were organic healthy meals. I guess my questioning is if there is any benefit in the ling term in having taken less insulin. I'm 36 and constantly thinking about the long game with this disease.
 
Hi @Mbabazi , let me try to answer your second question. I would suggest you to talk to dietitian/GP about it if you have concerns about it. They would be able to advice you on that as they have better understanding of your glucose control. Everyone needs carbs and our body needs carbs to function. What I'm trying to say is that portion size is important.
 
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Mbabazi said:
Hi all. I hope everyone is having a good weekend. I wanted to ask if anyone has experienced needing more and more insulin for the same meals. I'm a year into my type 1 or Lada diagnosis and I know from my initial checks I was still making some insulin so i used to have two eggs without insulin with only a small spike. Now I'm getting spikes just from that. Nothing else about my routine has changed. I'm a little heavier than when I was fort diagnosed. Does that change things.

Also my second question. Is one whether there is any benefit to taking less insulin. As in if I had a choice to eat a meal that needs 10 units of insulin and one of 7, am I better off for choosing the one requiring less insulin. If I was not thinking or worrying about weight and both were organic healthy meals. I guess my questioning is if there is any benefit in the ling term in having taken less insulin. I'm 36 and constantly thinking about the long game with this disease.
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Your remaining beta cells will gradually fail @Mbabazi and that will mean your blood sugar will tend higher so you’ll need more insulin. If you’re eating very low carb, you may also have developed some insulin resistance, which won’t help. If you eat a normal healthy diet with appropriate amounts of carbs, you’ll likely have better insulin sensitivity and need less insulin - which kind of links to your next question.

M

Thread 'Rapid weight gain on insulin - tips for normal metabolism'

Hi everyone.
I had my doctor's appointment and that went well, I got set up with a CGM and they have now classed me as a type 1. I have been on insulin only a month or so and was shocked to learn that I had gained nearly 10 pounds within that short time. I know I have been over-treating several hypos, and I suppose having insulin has given me a new lease on life and I have been eating normally and not cutting back or anything. I am concerned though that I cannot keep up with the pace of weight gain. The dietician said that it is normal because insulin is a growth hormone and that I could...

You need the insulin you need. You should be aiming to eat normal meals with carbs and taking the insulin you need for that meal. I eat what I’d have eaten if I didn’t have Type 1. That doesn’t mean I’m eating 15 doughnuts a day, it means I’ve continued to eat a normal healthy diet and maintained a normal healthy weight through my 30 years of Type 1.
 
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Here’s your previous thread @Mbabazi I link to it so you can re-read the comments from other Type 1s emphasising that insulin does not make you fat. The idea is that you eat a normal diet and simply calculate the insulin you need to cover it, just as your body would do.
It’s normal to put on some weight after a Type 1 diagnosis, but this settles back down after some months and you should stabilise at your normal weight. Trying to restrict carbs and food will be counterproductive because it causes insulin resistance and means your body hangs on to every calorie.

M

Thread 'Rapid weight gain on insulin - tips for normal metabolism'

Hi everyone.
I had my doctor's appointment and that went well, I got set up with a CGM and they have now classed me as a type 1. I have been on insulin only a month or so and was shocked to learn that I had gained nearly 10 pounds within that short time. I know I have been over-treating several hypos, and I suppose having insulin has given me a new lease on life and I have been eating normally and not cutting back or anything. I am concerned though that I cannot keep up with the pace of weight gain. The dietician said that it is normal because insulin is a growth hormone and that I could...
 
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@Inka thank you for the advice and thoughts on this and also importantly for referring to my old thread. my concern here is not the weight gain. That's no issue. It's that my daily insulin intake is going up and yet I'm eating pretty much the same. Do you know what I mean. So now I'm thinking that thing they say about the beta cells deteriorating may be hapenning to me but faster that i thought. It's only been a year. what you said about us eating as usual and using whatevr insulin we need is spot on. I just wondered if in the long term, someone who uses 30 units of insulin was better off than one who uses 50 units for the same meals if nutrition and weight factors were constant in both. As in is the insulin going to do any damage on its own aside from helping us with our blood sugars? Should type 1s be trying to take less insulin? And I ask this without considering weight. The only reason I mentioned being a few kgs heavier is because I wondered if somehow that makes me need more insulin. I haven't googled any of this stuff. I find this space so much more helpful with all the first hand experiences and advice. Thanks in advance.
 
Everyone needs carbs and our body needs carbs to function. What I'm trying to say is that portion size is important.
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Of course it is - and if portion sizes are excessive, you will put on weight. But it is the excess food that is making you gain weight, not the insulin you take to cover it.
 
Taking more insulin isn’t going to do you any damage, if that’s what you need. You need however much you need to keep your blood sugars under control. Don’t compare yourself with anyone else; we are all different. My daughter seems to need quite a lot of insulin compared to some people but we aren’t worrying about it, not taking enough would be far more dangerous. Just try to eat a healthy balanced diet and take however much insulin is appropriate for each meal. The whole point of carb counting is to give you freedom to eat what you like and not have to restrict yourself. The only reason that you put on weight when you first go onto insulin is because your body can start to use carbohydrates again and it replaces what it lost when you were undiagnosed and your body was basically starving. It levels off after a few weeks.
 
Apologies for the comments that I made previously @Mbabazi .
I don't think T1s should be taking less insulin than they need as your body needs the insulin to regulate the blood glucose levels. Again, it will be better if you ask your healthcare providers about these questions because they are more aware of your diabetes.
 
As Type 1s and in fact some Type 2s on insulin, we manage our own insulin doses and adjust them according to what we need, not what a health care professional, who we might be lucky to speak to once a year, tells us. That said, the Op is fairly newly diagnosed and probably still need some guidance.

I also take exception with the statement that we "need" carbs because technically we don't, as the body can convert protein and fats to glucose.

If I want to be really pedantic I also object to @Inka saying that a very low carb diet CAUSES insulin resistance rather than CAN CAUSE insulin resistance.
 
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Mbabazi said:
@Inka thank you for the advice and thoughts on this and also importantly for referring to my old thread. my concern here is not the weight gain. That's no issue. It's that my daily insulin intake is going up and yet I'm eating pretty much the same. Do you know what I mean. So now I'm thinking that thing they say about the beta cells deteriorating may be hapenning to me but faster that i thought. It's only been a year. what you said about us eating as usual and using whatevr insulin we need is spot on. I just wondered if in the long term, someone who uses 30 units of insulin was better off than one who uses 50 units for the same meals if nutrition and weight factors were constant in both. As in is the insulin going to do any damage on its own aside from helping us with our blood sugars? Should type 1s be trying to take less insulin? And I ask this without considering weight. The only reason I mentioned being a few kgs heavier is because I wondered if somehow that makes me need more insulin. I haven't googled any of this stuff. I find this space so much more helpful with all the first hand experiences and advice. Thanks in advance.
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How much more insulin are you having to take @Mbabazi ? Some increase is normal over time, as the beta cells fail. That can happen slowly or quickly, in stages or in a shorter space of time.

You should take the amount of insulin that allows you to control your blood sugar, to eat a normal healthy diet, and to maintain a healthy weight. That amount will vary person by person. So no, a person who eats exactly the same as you but takes more insulin isn’t worse off. They’ll be taking what they need to control their blood sugar. Likewise a person who eats exactly the same as you but takes less insulin than you isn’t better off than you.

I hope that helps x
 
Sally71 said:
Taking more insulin isn’t going to do you any damage, if that’s what you need. You need however much you need to keep your blood sugars under control. Don’t compare yourself with anyone else; we are all different. My daughter seems to need quite a lot of insulin compared to some people but we aren’t worrying about it, not taking enough would be far more dangerous. Just try to eat a healthy balanced diet and take however much insulin is appropriate for each meal. The whole point of carb counting is to give you freedom to eat what you like and not have to restrict yourself. The only reason that you put on weight when you first go onto insulin is because your body can start to use carbohydrates again and it replaces what it lost when you were undiagnosed and your body was basically starving. It levels off after a few weeks.
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rebrascora said:
As Type 1s and in fact some Type 2s on insulin, we manage our own insulin doses and adjust them according to what we need, not what a health care professional, who we might be lucky to speak to once a year, tells us. That said, the Op is fairly newly diagnosed and probably still need some guidance.

I also take exception with the statement that we "need" carbs because technically we don't, as the body can convert protein and fats to glucose.

If I want to be really pedantic I also object to @Inka saying that a very low carb diet CAUSES insulin resistance rather than CAN CAUSE insulin resistance.
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Yes I agree that people can adjust their mealtime dosages according to their blood glucose levels. And if the OP is newly diagnosed, then perhaps their healthcare professional will be able to give them more guidance on how to adjust their dosages.
 
Inka said:
How much more insulin are you having to take @Mbabazi ? Some increase is normal over time, as the beta cells fail. That can happen slowly or quickly, in stages or in a shorter space of time.

You should take the amount of insulin that allows you to control your blood sugar, to eat a normal healthy diet, and to maintain a healthy weight. That amount will vary person by person. So no, a person who eats exactly the same as you but takes more insulin isn’t worse off. They’ll be taking what they need to control their blood sugar. Likewise a person who eats exactly the same as you but takes less insulin than you isn’t better off than you.

I hope that helps x
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Maybe 60 percent more insulin. And sometime even my correction don't get me quite back to where they used to. So like I used to correct one unit of insulin for 2.5bg but now need 2 units to correct around 3bg. I suppose I need what I need and there is no harm in that. Thanks you @Inka and everyone
 
Someone needs to tell diabetes.org.uk that it's a myth.

Weight loss and diabetes

There are a lot of different ways to lose weight but there’s no one-size-fits-all diet. We’ve put together this weight loss guide to help you get started and stay motivated.
www.diabetes.org.uk www.diabetes.org.uk

If you have type 1 diabetes, when you start taking insulin, you might start to put on weight. There are lots of reasons for this, like how much insulin you take, your diet and the type of insulin you’re taking
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I wonder if they are referring to T1s who undergo rapid weight loss before diagnosis, but start to put it back on when they start insulin - which is completely to be expected as the insulin will be storing glucose/fat and helping to rebuild muscle mass and hence weight will go up (To healthy levels).
 
There was/is a theory called the 'Carbohydrate insulin model of obesity' that, I believe, postulated that obesity was caused by excessive amounts of insulin in people with insulin resistance turning excess glucose into fat in the liver (Which does happen, de novo lipogenesis, signalled by insulin, which I think is why triglycerides are elevated in people insulin resistance, as it's not being shoved into cells to be stored as glycogen?). I believe there is no evidence for this theory, though, and the last thing I read there was evidence against it.
 
I lost a large amount of weight just before diagnosis and have gradually put it back on - this is very common (and I'm glad I have - it was quite noticeable as I was quite slim beforehand) - In terms of insulin intake, mine has doubled in the last 6 months (honeymoon period over!) and I do agree with @Inka that if I have less carbs in my diet, my insulin resistance is greater - BUT everyone is different and we all react in different ways to therapies and food - it's all about finding out what is right for you
 
mashedupmatt said:
I lost a large amount of weight just before diagnosis and have gradually put it back on - this is very common (and I'm glad I have - it was quite noticeable as I was quite slim beforehand) - In terms of insulin intake, mine has doubled in the last 6 months (honeymoon period over!) and I do agree with @Inka that if I have less carbs in my diet, my insulin resistance is greater - BUT everyone is different and we all react in different ways to therapies and food - it's all about finding out what is right for you
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i agree. There is no one size fit all diet so it’s all about experimenting and see what is most suitable for your body.
 
It is well known that as you come to the end of the honeymoon period, your insulin needs increase and this is almost certainly what @Mbabazi is seeing.

As mentioned by @Inka, it is dangerous to suggest to a Type 1 who is relatively newly diagnosed that their increase in insulin needs will cause them weight gain. My basal insulin needs doubled in the space of a couple of months about 2 years after diagnosis because most of my remaining beta cells got wiped out. Once that stabilized at the increased dose I have needed around the same amount of insulin for the past 3.5 years give or take adjustment for the seasons and exercise and very occasional illness. My weight is pretty stable. If I want to lose weight I need to eat less and yes take less insulin for less food, or exercise more and take less insulin because my muscles are sucking the glucose out of my blood to replenish their stores. My insulin is there to balance my BG levels and how much or how little I need depends on my BG levels and keeping them in range. That is what my pancreas did before my immune system killed off my beta cells and what I must do now....ie. Inject the right amount of insulin to keep my BG levels mostly in range.
 
Although some literature suggested that insulin could cause weight gain, insulin work differently for different people.

Regardless, I do apologise if I come across as insensitive and I did not intend to provide medical advice to anyone as I am well aware of the rules of this forum. Perhaps I could have phrased my words in a better way.
 
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