My first 90 mile bike ride

[Robbie bobidy]

So yesterday as I continue to prepare for June 15th I cycled 90 miles my longest ride to date, went ok was a little tired at the end, but could of gone on p, which is good news as the ride in two weeks is 139miles.

I changed my fuelling strategy yesterday which seemed to help had to eat a bit more on the ride to keep the energy up and stop the dreading bonk, it does worry me though when you eat more especially more carbs that all the hard work with the diabetes could go out the window. I’m hoping my burning more I can eat more but it’s the one area I’m not to sure on

. The problem I’ve found is I get very low blood sugar for the week after rides if I don’t eat a bit more on the ride itself anythoughts?

Attached some pictures below of the progress over the last 6 months for your amusement. Still a fat man on a bike just not quite as fat

 

[Proud to be erratic]

Hello @Robbie bobidy,
I'm an insulin dependent T3c (as if T1, but different fundamental cause). My thoughts: my Consultant (who has published material on managing Diabetes alongside activity) was pleasantly firm that I should turn to protein heavy snacks rather than the carb heavy snacks, after going low during or after extra activity. So snack bars that are c. 30-40 gms wt and with relatively low carbs - perhaps 9-15 gms carbs. I regret that we didn't have time to explore that further, particularly to clarify why, but I will next time (if I can). Good luck for June 15th.

 

[Robbie bobidy]

Hello @Robbie bobidy,
I'm an insulin dependent T3c (as if T1, but different fundamental cause). My thoughts: my Consultant (who has published material on managing Diabetes alongside activity) was pleasantly firm that I should turn to protein heavy snacks rather than the carb heavy snacks, after going low during or after extra activity. So snack bars that are c. 30-40 gms wt and with relatively low carbs - perhaps 9-15 gms carbs. I regret that we didn't have time to explore that further, particularly to clarify why, but I will next time (if I can). Good luck for June 15th.

Thanks useful to know I think most of what I currently have are 22grams of carbs will see if I can switch to more protein ones

 

[SimonP]

Well done, what's the ride on the 15th of June out of interest (I did a quick search but didn't spot anything you'd written on the forum, nor can I see anything with that specific distance in the Audax or Sportive calendars)?

You may well run low for some time after a big effort like that as your muscles will be more insulin sensitive and your muscles and liver will need to replenish glycogen (over ~48h+), do you take medication, if so perhaps you could reduce it immediately after and taper it back over a day or two (which is what I tend to do with insulin after a long ride.)

Some people suggest munching on things like trail mix, which is predominantly protein plus a bit of carbs from the fruit. I generally have to eat carbs in the second half of a long ride and typically don't bother eating very much for the first half, though this is a fudge to overcome the fact I need basal for the pre-ride night and it still lasts into the ride day and eventually becomes very effective (I typically halve my basal in the morning of a long ride, which means I trend high to start with before the insulin sensitivity kicks in for the second half.)

I try to stop and eat something normal for lunch and again for afternoon tea (I would do likewise for morning coffee, but typically can't/don't need to eat at that point, see above.) and if I do this and time it right I can generally surf the absorption to maintain BG without needing to eat many snacks until the final couple of hours, though it's different every time of course! 🙂

Even if you consume the recommended(?) ~60g of carbs an hour you've got a net calorie deficit, so I think you could quite happily consume some carbs and not worry about it. My preference if something like a tracker bar, or other breakfast type bars as they have a mix of some readily available sucrose as well as protein and fat to slow digestion/provide energy over a longer period.

Out of interest what's your blood glucose when you approach a "bonk"? (you may not take a meter with you of course)

And most importantly good luck 🙂

 

[Robbie bobidy]

Well done, what's the ride on the 15th of June out of interest (I did a quick search but didn't spot anything you'd written on the forum, nor can I see anything with that specific distance in the Audax or Sportive calendars)?

You may well run low for some time after a big effort like that as your muscles will be more insulin sensitive and your muscles and liver will need to replenish glycogen (over ~48h+), do you take medication, if so perhaps you could reduce it immediately after and taper it back over a day or two (which is what I tend to do with insulin after a long ride.)

Some people suggest munching on things like trail mix, which is predominantly protein plus a bit of carbs from the fruit. I generally have to eat carbs in the second half of a long ride and typically don't bother eating very much for the first half, though this is a fudge to overcome the fact I need basal for the pre-ride night and it still lasts into the ride day and eventually becomes very effective (I typically halve my basal in the morning of a long ride, which means I trend high to start with before the insulin sensitivity kicks in for the second half.)

I try to stop and eat something normal for lunch and again for afternoon tea (I would do likewise for morning coffee, but typically can't/don't need to eat at that point, see above.) and if I do this and time it right I can generally surf the absorption to maintain BG without needing to eat many snacks until the final couple of hours, though it's different every time of course! 🙂

Even if you consume the recommended(?) ~60g of carbs an hour you've got a net calorie deficit, so I think you could quite happily consume some carbs and not worry about it. My preference if something like a tracker bar, or other breakfast type bars as they have a mix of some readily available sucrose as well as protein and fat to slow digestion/provide energy over a longer period.

Out of interest what's your blood glucose when you approach a "bonk"? (you may not take a meter with you of course)

And most importantly good luck 🙂

Hi thanks for this, it’s not an organised ride other than me organising it,
No medication for me I have gor my numbers down by diet and excercise hence the slight panic with eating more on a ride, I am thinking of getting a blood testing kit for rides as I’d like to know if my sugar levels are ok, yesterday about 2 hours after lunch I began to feel a bit funny. To be fair I’d forgotten to eat during that time and was at mile 80 so I stopped had some food and I was ok after 15 minutes. I think I burnt about 7000 calories in total yesterday I certainly didn’t eat 7000 calories so yes a deficit

 

[helli]

Hey Robbie, you might find the free Libre trial useful.
Yes, CGMs have limitations but seeing your BG rise and fall on your phone app as you eat and exercise could help you for your self-organised ride coming up.

 

[Robbie bobidy]

Hey Robbie, you might find the free Libre trial useful.
Yes, CGMs have limitations but seeing your BG rise and fall on your phone app as you eat and exercise could help you for your self-organised ride coming up.

Thank you just downloading it now.

 

[helli]

Thank you just downloading it now.

You will also need the free sensor which you can apply for on the Libre website.

 

[SimonP]

No medication for me I have gor my numbers down by diet and excercise hence the slight panic with eating more on a ride, I am thinking of getting a blood testing kit for rides as I’d like to know if my sugar levels are ok, yesterday about 2 hours after lunch I began to feel a bit funny. To be fair I’d forgotten to eat during that time and was at mile 80 so I stopped had some food and I was ok after 15 minutes. I think I burnt about 7000 calories in total yesterday I certainly didn’t eat 7000 calories so yes a deficit

You won't go hypo, which is the only worry. afaiu the feeling of a "bonk" comes on at a much higher BG than a proper hypo. It would be interesting to know what BG people have when they "bonk" (having ridden the full spectrum from 20mmol/l all the way down to <2mmol/l - I don't recommend the limits fwiw), but I don't think you should overburden yourself with extra kit and things to think about while riding.

If I could I'd eat based on how I feel (and/or with a simple reminder to eat something every ~30min) rather than needing to know my blood glucose I would happily do this.

I'm also of the DIY route and ride persuasion (and almost invariably solo), I've only ridden one Sportive and aside from donating to charity, I don't see much appeal - making my own routes is fun, riding the routes without masses of other cyclists is nicer (pick your own pace, and fewer cyclists means the cars become less irate!) and "free" food and drink is rather wasted on me too as I make sure I take what I need (and/or plan stops where I can be pretty sure I'll be able to find what I need) as running out isn't much fun.

Roughly where are you riding on the 15th, any particular motivation for the route in question? When I started riding during lockdown I used Veloviewer (statshunter does the same) and ticked off tiles as a motivator to go somewhere different/further (https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...uares-inside-the-world-of-tile-bagging-453912, https://blog.veloviewer.com/category/explorer/, https://rideeverytile.com/ etc.), while I still do this I've got to ride quite a long way these days so the motivation to hoover up every tile in an area is reduced as it just makes for a very long day. I am wondering about changing approach and answering British Cycle Quest clues as a different option to provide places to ride to (https://www.cyclinguk.org/british-cycle-quest). I can still tick off tiles (and change route to get any I miss on later trips in a given direction) but without the overt OCD requirement to find a way to ride every tile on my way to and from wherever I'm going to get best tile bang for my riding buck, which can take away from the fun of route planning.

 

[Robbie bobidy]

You won't go hypo, which is the only worry. afaiu the feeling of a "bonk" comes on at a much higher BG than a proper hypo. It would be interesting to know what BG people have when they "bonk" (having ridden the full spectrum from 20mmol/l all the way down to <2mmol/l - I don't recommend the limits fwiw), but I don't think you should overburden yourself with extra kit and things to think about while riding.

If I could I'd eat based on how I feel (and/or with a simple reminder to eat something every ~30min) rather than needing to know my blood glucose I would happily do this.

I'm also of the DIY route and ride persuasion (and almost invariably solo), I've only ridden one Sportive and aside from donating to charity, I don't see much appeal - making my own routes is fun, riding the routes without masses of other cyclists is nicer (pick your own pace, and fewer cyclists means the cars become less irate!) and "free" food and drink is rather wasted on me too as I make sure I take what I need (and/or plan stops where I can be pretty sure I'll be able to find what I need) as running out isn't much fun.

Roughly where are you riding on the 15th, any particular motivation for the route in question? When I started riding during lockdown I used Veloviewer (statshunter does the same) and ticked off tiles as a motivator to go somewhere different/further (https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/...uares-inside-the-world-of-tile-bagging-453912, https://blog.veloviewer.com/category/explorer/, https://rideeverytile.com/ etc.), while I still do this I've got to ride quite a long way these days so the motivation to hoover up every tile in an area is reduced as it just makes for a very long day. I am wondering about changing approach and answering British Cycle Quest clues as a different option to provide places to ride to (https://www.cyclinguk.org/british-cycle-quest). I can still tick off tiles (and change route to get any I miss on later trips in a given direction) but without the overt OCD requirement to find a way to ride every tile on my way to and from wherever I'm going to get best tile bang for my riding buck, which can take away from the fun of route planning.

So the ride is Hastings to Bournemouth. The final destination was more based around one of the offices for the company I work for so I could maximise fundraising on the ride. I’m a solo cyclist most weeks the other reason I picked Bournemouth is as it was first plus 100 mile ride I wanted a fairly forgiving and flat route which this does for me few hills but nothing that will kill my legs half way through.

I might try starting to eat every 30 minutes I have been leaving it to once an hour when I remember but maybe I should have some bits I can grab whilst riding as well on the move (haven’t quite managed the riding and eating thing yet

 

[helli]

You won't go hypo, which is the only worry. afaiu the feeling of a "bonk" comes on at a much higher BG than a proper hypo. It would be interesting to know what BG people have when they "bonk" (having ridden the full spectrum from 20mmol/l all the way down to <2mmol/l - I don't recommend the limits fwiw),

My non-diabetic partner bonked at hypo level.
He cycled for a few hours up a very steep mountain without fuelling and had to stop because he felt dizzy and unstable. After recovering a little, I took his BG. It was 2.9 mmol/l.
Based on this sample of n=1, it appears that it is possible to bonk at hypo level.

 

[SimonP]

So the ride is Hastings to Bournemouth. The final destination was more based around one of the offices for the company I work for so I could maximise fundraising on the ride. I’m a solo cyclist most weeks the other reason I picked Bournemouth is as it was first plus 100 mile ride I wanted a fairly forgiving and flat route which this does for me few hills but nothing that will kill my legs half way through.

I might try starting to eat every 30 minutes I have been leaving it to once an hour when I remember but maybe I should have some bits I can grab whilst riding as well on the move (haven’t quite managed the riding and eating thing yet

Sounds great, very best of luck. If stopping briefly every hour is easiest then do that, the advantage of not stopping is that all the stops will add up to ~an hour over the course of the ride, plus sometimes you don't feel like stopping, but still ought to eat, so having a snack while riding is useful to avoid skipping it/forgetting about it.

My non-diabetic partner bonked at hypo level.
He cycled for a few hours up a very steep mountain without fuelling and had to stop because he felt dizzy and unstable. After recovering a little, I took his BG. It was 2.9 mmol/l.
Based on this sample of n=1, it appears that it is possible to bonk at hypo level.

I don't have a sample size, so that is interesting to hear. The only thing I was working from was a GCN video (ad!) in which they used the Supersapiens system while doing a fasted 100 mile ride (iirc.) What was interesting about that video was that they showed the BG values (in mg/dl) during the ride, but never mentioned it again after the fasted rider "bonked". I assume that was because the value they got didn't tally with what they expected. This may have been due to a misreading libre sensor of course, or there's a "bonking" spectrum, sounds like an ideal research application title

 

[helli]

I don't have a sample size, so that is interesting to hear. The only thing I was working from was a GCN video (ad!) in which they used the Supersapiens system while doing a fasted 100 mile ride (iirc.) What was interesting about that video was that they showed the BG values (in mg/dl) during the ride, but never mentioned it again after the fasted rider "bonked". I assume that was because the value they got didn't tally with what they expected. This may have been due to a misreading libre sensor of course, or there's a "bonking" spectrum, sounds like an ideal research application title

I remember watching that video and being surprised by the level that bonking was shown on the Supersapiens graph.
As often reported on this forum, Libre (which is what the sensor used by Supersapiens uses) is not great at lower BGs so maybe it was a "technical issue" which is why they did not make a big thing about it.

 

[Robbie bobidy]

Sounds great, very best of luck. If stopping briefly every hour is easiest then do that, the advantage of not stopping is that all the stops will add up to ~an hour over the course of the ride, plus sometimes you don't feel like stopping, but still ought to eat, so having a snack while riding is useful to avoid skipping it/forgetting about it.


I don't have a sample size, so that is interesting to hear. The only thing I was working from was a GCN video (ad!) in which they used the Supersapiens system while doing a fasted 100 mile ride (iirc.) What was interesting about that video was that they showed the BG values (in mg/dl) during the ride, but never mentioned it again after the fasted rider "bonked". I assume that was because the value they got didn't tally with what they expected. This may have been due to a misreading libre sensor of course, or there's a "bonking" spectrum, sounds like an ideal research application title

I dont suppose either of you know whatvthe title of that gcn video was sounds like an interesting watch I like GCN

 

[Rob Oldfield]

I dont suppose either of you know whatvthe title of that gcn video was sounds like an interesting watch I like GCN

This one?

 

[SimonP]

I think it was this one:

 

[sololite]

Hello @Robbie bobidy,
I'm an insulin dependent T3c (as if T1, but different fundamental cause). My thoughts: my Consultant (who has published material on managing Diabetes alongside activity) was pleasantly firm that I should turn to protein heavy snacks rather than the carb heavy snacks, after going low during or after extra activity. So snack bars that are c. 30-40 gms wt and with relatively low carbs - perhaps 9-15 gms carbs. I regret that we didn't have time to explore that further, particularly to clarify why, but I will next time (if I can). Good luck for June 15th.

Hi @Proud to be erratic. Yesterday I did my longest ride (40 miles) since my Whipple last year and bonked. I've been searching through the forum to see how other type 3's cope and noticed your comment about your consultants published material. Is that something you can share with me please as I want to explore something more scientific than me just eating banana and jelly babies as I trundle around. Thank you

 

[SimonP]

@sololite there are materials on the EXTOD website (you do need to dig though as the site itself looks like it's only half finished, they do still run a yearly conference which I would recommend in part because you meet other people doing a wide range of exercise types/intensities/durations from beginners to experienced amateur athletes.

There are also some published recommendations re exercise with diabetes:
https://doi.org/10.1016/S2213-8587(17)30014-1

Physical Activity/Exercise and Diabetes: A Position Statement of the American Diabetes Association

The adoption and maintenance of physical activity are critical foci for blood glucose management and overall health in individuals with diabetes and predia

doi.org

The general recommendations for anyone during endurance cycling of eating 30-60g of carbs an hour also stand (I'd ignore GCN's recent video suggesting 60-100g carbs an hour in the form of gels myself).

Might be worth breaking your question out into its own thread (one of the mods could do that if you request it), I'm interested to know what you've been doing (treatment, food) as I was also there only a few years back going hypo 20 miles from home and needing to eat everything I'd brought with me and then feeling rather sorry for myself on the way home!


and @Robbie bobidy how did you get on?

 

[Proud to be erratic]

Hi @Proud to be erratic. Yesterday I did my longest ride (40 miles) since my Whipple last year and bonked. I've been searching through the forum to see how other type 3's cope and noticed your comment about your consultants published material. Is that something you can share with me please as I want to explore something more scientific than me just eating banana and jelly babies as I trundle around. Thank you

Certainly @sololite.
I did a quick search and could not instantly find the article I read some 3 years ago; I know I gave it a bookmark, but that is temporarily hidden somewhere in my phone and not obvious. I'll look again tomorrow. Meanwhile I'm attaching an 11 minute video from an ABCD training seminar about using CGM to assist with exercise and there are, I think, some useful elements in there for anyone. I like his emphasis on using CGM to give "alerts" (I still think Abbott Freestyle overstate the use of alarms at the expense of drawing attention to getting timely alerts and that leads Newcomers into setting Alarm thresholds close to 4, by which time any alert is coming way too late to stop that drop into hypo territory; sorry that's one of my repeat rants!).

CGM and exercise | The Association of British Clinical Diabetologists

abcd.care

He also points out some peculiarities about the outcomes of aerobic exercise preceding anaerobic. This has got to be useful for non Tour de France riders, where a warm down on the last bit of a long cycle ride can be of interest for BG management as well as muscle care. But none of this gives you the source for protein bars rather than simple carb bars.

I have never cycled anything like 90 miles. But yesterday I came to a temporary halt from 3 x 8+ hr days heavy gardening; trimming 20 ft tall hedges (= constant up and down the Henchman ladder), reaching to the back of an 8ft thick hedge with full stretch of the hedge cutter and each position needing a Henchman configuration change because of very constrained access postions along fhe hedgeline; bagging all arisings as I went and hauling those bags some 50m uphill to a collection point. All in all a thorough workout! Net outcome = lots of "Alerts", plenty of protein bars, plenty of water, night time cramps (magnesium gel) and night low alerts! Recovery day today in anticipation of the rain and so far a 40% reduction for my breakfast bolus, which I'm happily monitoring on my Dexcom G7. Woke to 8.0, been up to 8.9, down to 5.4, now 3hrs on at 6.3 and feeling a bit smug (sorry!).

Hope this helps in the interim. I agree with SimonP that there would be merit in you asking the moderators to break your question into its own thread. Exercise and Activity is so fundamental to understanding how much our BG changes as we routinely have bursts of activity.

For @Busdriver60 we spoke only yesterday about how physical activity such as loading carpets into vans before delivering them could increase your vulnerability to unexpected hypos or near hypos while driving. @Ronnie5cakes this 11 minute video might help you at least understand why your BG can fluctuate so much from one day to the next depending on what you are doing on any one day and it has some suggestions for carbs to take depending on not just where your BG is but also note the emphasis on your CGM trends (direction of travel) in making a carb topping up decision.

 

[sololite]

@sololite there are materials on the EXTOD website (you do need to dig though as the site itself looks like it's only half finished, they do still run a yearly conference which I would recommend in part because you meet other people doing a wide range of exercise types/intensities/durations from beginners to experienced amateur athletes.

There are also some published recommendations re exercise with diabetes:
https://doi.org/10.1016/S2213-8587(17)30014-1

Physical Activity/Exercise and Diabetes: A Position Statement of the American Diabetes Association

The adoption and maintenance of physical activity are critical foci for blood glucose management and overall health in individuals with diabetes and predia

doi.org

The general recommendations for anyone during endurance cycling of eating 30-60g of carbs an hour also stand (I'd ignore GCN's recent video suggesting 60-100g carbs an hour in the form of gels myself).

Might be worth breaking your question out into its own thread (one of the mods could do that if you request it), I'm interested to know what you've been doing (treatment, food) as I was also there only a few years back going hypo 20 miles from home and needing to eat everything I'd brought with me and then feeling rather sorry for myself on the way home!


and @Robbie bobidy how did you get on?

Thanks Simon. I had a quick skim of the link and there is a lot to consume so will take me some time but will give it a go. I am not a fan of gels or Hi5 style drinks as they make me feel a bit sick on the ride so gave them up a few years ago although I do keep a couple in my seat bag just incase everything else has run out. Interestingly yesterday my BS was fine when I bonked. There are a lot of variables for me to fine tune before I can work out my optimum regime for longer rides. I would say one thing to anyone thinking of taking up cycling to help manage their diabetes, give it a go, it really improves my control and may do for you too.