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Milk trouble... (help please!)

GracefulAng

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Carer/Partner
Question to ask on my husband's behalf:

My husband @Busdriver60 has been looking for suitable milk since our usual milk spikes his BG up every time he has it with cereal.

I am wondering if Kefir Milk would be good for him.

He would be grateful for your help.

GracefulAng
 
Question to ask on my husband's behalf:

My husband @Busdriver60 has been looking for suitable milk since our usual milk spikes his BG up every time he has it with cereal.

I am wondering if Kefir Milk would be good for him.

He would be grateful for your help.

GracefulAng
I'm afraid that the cereal is far more likely to be spiking the BG than the milk.
I have avoided grain of all kinds for 8 years or more - although 3c is vastly different from 2, we are still having to deal with carbs.
 
It is far more likely that the cereal is spiking his levels than the milk.

Which cereal is he having?

Cows milk is about 5% carbs (lactose) as is creamy natural Greek style yoghurt which is what many of us have, but I have mine with raspberries and blueberries and mixed seeds rather than cereal as the cereal will really spike my levels.
Most cereals are 65% carbs
 
@rebrascora, he is currently trying "All Bran" cereal.
 
Looks like ALL Bran is 48g/100g carbs so better than most cereals but still much higher in carbs than the milk, so the milk is unlikely to be the issue unless he is having an awful lot of it.

Is he using a meal time insulin like NovoRapid? If so, it may just be a question of injecting it a bit earlier before he eats his breakfast. How long before eating does he inject it?
If he isn't using a mealtime insulin, then he either needs to consider doing so or aim for a lower carb breakfast like eggs or thick creamy natural yoghurt with berries.
 
@rebrascora, he is currently trying "All Bran" cereal.
All Bran is one of the lower carb cereals but still quite high, Marks and Spenser do a grain free fruit and nut granola which is only 9g carbs per 100g rather than the All Bran at 48g per 100g.
Is he still only taking basal insulin, it maybe he now need a bolus meal time insulin as well. But it depends on how high his blood glucose is going up post meal and how quickly it returns to premeal level.
 
I have Koko milk on my cereal. It’s very low carb, is nothing like the coconut milk you get in a tin, and doesn’t taste of coconuts. In fact, it tastes nicer than dairy milk IMO. I have this one below but there’s also an unsweetened one:

61361231-BA07-437A-BBFC-5C1DB813BF38.jpeg
 
It’s got 0.9g carbs per 100ml. The unsweetened one has 0.4g. They’re available fresh or longlife.
 
Question to ask on my husband's behalf:

My husband @Busdriver60 has been looking for suitable milk since our usual milk spikes his BG up every time he has it with cereal.

I am wondering if Kefir Milk would be good for him.

He would be grateful for your help.

GracefulAng
Hi Ang.Like others I don’t see the milk as being the issue but the carbs in the cereal.As a Type 3c I know you should take Creon if you have milk but personally I never take Creon for breakfast and have a huge bowl of fruit with a small bit of low carb granola and plenty of milk and rarely spike.
So if the cereal is kept low carb and/ or portion limited then that is best way to avoid a spike.
Would also recommend a walk etc after. Breakfast to even out any rise.
 
Hello Angela @GracefulAng,
The last time Paul and I spoke he had been turned down with his request for a rapid (=bolus =mealtime) insulin. I assume that still applies.

When you say his BG is now spiking, what sort of readings is he typically getting? Ideally he should be testing immediately before the1st mouthful and expecting that to be well below 7; but some people are more susceptible to either of the 2 Phenomena known as the Dawn Phenomenon (DP) or Foot on the Floor (FOTF) syndrome - both of which can cause their BG to rise significantly, even before eating.

Whatever his initial (before first mouthful) BG is, he should be eating a breakfast which will cause a rise, but that rise should be below 8-8.5, two hrs after that first mouthful. With that sort of response Paul will know that his metabolism is managing that meal successfully. If once in a while those typical numbers aren't achieved, then that is not a disaster; but if those nos are regularly not achieved that type of meal needs attention: either a different and lower carb choice of meal or smaller portions.
All Bran is one of the lower carb cereals, with only 18g carbs per serving.
@GracefulAng does Paul weigh or measure his portion of All Bran? It's one if those cereals that can be moreish, if you enjoy All Bran (I know, I used to indulge!). I know Paul was resisting getting into carb counting and I understand that background circumstance.

Has cereal and milk been his regular breakfast for a long time or is this a fairly recent change? One of the (many) unhelpful things about Diabetes is that "things change". It is possible that even if Paul was previously enjoying milk and All Bran with manageable BGs something has triggered a change! I've no idea what, without a lot of further quizzing!

In the final analysis:

How big are these spikes?​
Do they coincide with non-working days? Because garden centre workload can be seasonal, have these spikes started recently, coincidentally with "slow start" days at work after the Xmas / NY busy times? Before Xmas he would be very busy from the moment he arrived; are his days temporarily, noticeably, less busy before the probable Easter rush? It's quite possible this is about a change in work routine and activity levels. As I write this the more I think that seasonal activity levels could be less for Paul and that reduction of activity is the cause of "change".​
Gentle, steady exercise or activity shortly after eating can often help fend off spikes. I know Paul is both lean and fit for his age; the activity or exercise is a way of improving (reducing) his natural insulin resistance allowing his basal to do more as well as his own "home grown" insulin.​
I agree that milk is not likely to be the cause of spikes, but cereal can be. There are plenty of filling lower carb alternatives for breakfasts and other meals.​
If Paul has reduced his carb counting awareness, please encourage him to get on top of this!​
If this is not the case, ASSUMING the explanation is not because of reduced work activity level, then he has potential strong evidence to ask his Diabetes Nurse to review/reverse the decision to not provide that bolus insulin. BUT bolus insulin does mean Paul will need to get on top of real carb counting before each meal and take the right amount of insulin for each meal. Is he truly ready to do this?​
I hope some of this helps. Roland
 
All Bran is one of the lower carb cereals, with only 18g carbs per serving.
That doe assume that the cereal is weighed out, and a serving of around 40 gm, - that is less than 1 and 1/2oz
 
That doe assume that the cereal is weighed out, and a serving of around 40 gm, - that is less than 1 and 1/2oz

Well, yes. Sticking to serving sizes helps. As All Bran is high fibre, it’s nice and filling so nobody needs a large bowl of it and 40g is plenty because it’s quite dense. That’s why they tell you the serving size.
 
Hope @Busdriver60 is able to sort out these breakfast spikes one way or another @GracefulAng

Like many others on the forum, I have ended up settling into a routine of having exactly the same breakfast on weekdays pretty much year-round. (One which after a period of experimentation seemed fairly reliable BG-wise for me). That way if my levels start misbehaving I know it isn’t a calculation error, it’s just my diabetes playing silly beggars and changing the rules (again!)
 
Me too. I have the same breakfast of yoghurt, fruit, nuts and seeds, which I've carb counted as accurately as I reasonably can, thus I'm able to take my bolus insulin without too much forethought. For Paul, without the benefit of bolus insulin, he would need a standard, filling and enjoyable breakfast that was lowish carb and when tested against finger pricks immediately before the 1st mouthful then 2 hrs later - he has the reassurance that his standard breakfast is managed well by his unique metabolic circumstances.

I also have a couple of different "standard" breakfasts, if only for occasional variety, or speed of prep and eating. One is 2 poached eggs on low carb toast (Jason's seeded, protein, sour dough bread at 22% carbs) (it's the only lower carb bread that Jason's do, their others range from 45-55%). With optional ham or cheese. Again accurately carb pre-counted for my bolus insulin.

Exactly as Mike @everydayupsanddowns says, I know if my BG misbehaves it's not the chosen meal that is the problem. Probably just a wrong colour socks day! Only if repeated standard breakfasts then don't work, do I then consider possible reasons and/or changes.
 
i use ALPRO soya milk 0 carbs 0 sugar
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