Low carb v keto? I can't imagine going keto.

Larna

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I see advice on various websites for diabetes or weightloss recommending low carb (carb counting) but also on others recommending full on keto diet (carb reduced to the point of getting in ketosis). I wonder if it's really optional which approach is used for diabetics?

For myself: I cannot imagine giving up bread. I've been putting a lot of thought these last couple weeks into what might I live without and what do I not want to give up. Old potatoes can go, pastry can go, cakes need to go, as do biscuits and sweets. But to give up my oat and linseed home made bread would be terrible. Do I really need to? Is there any way to make an oat bread lower carb?

Also I love having breakfast cereal with goat milk. Is there something easily available that would taste like cereal but low carb?

I know I MUST reduce my HbA1c and also MUST reduce my weight. I've always failed at diets so looking for ways to 'adapt' our normal eating with just a few things banned.
 

NotWorriedAtAll

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
You don't need to ban anything other than specific ingredients.
Just about anything you enjoy eating can be made using keto ingredients - including bread.
I eat far more cakes, biscuits, sweets, pastry and bread than I ever did before my diagnosis and my blood sugars are kept at around 5.4 - 6.2 before eating a meal and between 5.9 - 7.0 after eating a meal and that is without any meds.

I don't count calories at all and since I swapped all my ingredients over to keto ones I don't really bother counting carbs any more and I know my daily intake will always be around 10 - 30g of carbs a day. I could be stricter and be certain it was exactly around 20g but I prefer to just enjoy my food these days and not bother.

I am now slimming down because I have more energy to exercise and work out and I enjoy it these days.

Sorting out your diabetes can actually be fun. I wouldn't go back to eating the foods I ate pre-diagnosis even if someone paid me a million quid. Not because I am some sort of saint but because the keto food is so much nicer and now I have got the hang of it - easier. And of course I feel so much better for it.
 

Leadinglights

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I see advice on various websites for diabetes or weightloss recommending low carb (carb counting) but also on others recommending full on keto diet (carb reduced to the point of getting in ketosis). I wonder if it's really optional which approach is used for diabetics?

For myself: I cannot imagine giving up bread. I've been putting a lot of thought these last couple weeks into what might I live without and what do I not want to give up. Old potatoes can go, pastry can go, cakes need to go, as do biscuits and sweets. But to give up my oat and linseed home made bread would be terrible. Do I really need to? Is there any way to make an oat bread lower carb?

Also I love having breakfast cereal with goat milk. Is there something easily available that would taste like cereal but low carb?

I know I MUST reduce my HbA1c and also MUST reduce my weight. I've always failed at diets so looking for ways to 'adapt' our normal eating with just a few things banned.
I assume the bread you make is not like battle bread so a slice is going to weigh about 30g so about 12g carb ish so if that is the only carb you have at that meal it is not a huge amount. So the answer to 'do I really need to give it up' is it depends. Oat and linseed and sunflower normal (not keto ) bread seem to be lower carb than some others.
Many people have something like Greek Yoghurt with berries and seeds for breakfast but add a small amount of a low sugar cereal like All Bran or Granola to give some crunch.
It obviously is up to you how low on carbs you go but the advise would be to do it gradually to avoid any vision issues some people get. Low carb would be less than 130g per day but as you might see from a number of posts some adopt less than that but that is a good starting point and then if that is still more than you can tolerate then you can reduce further.
 

Drummer

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
On of the experiments I have been meaning to try is making dinky little loaves in tiny tins, then I can freeze them and bring them out one at a time. I would be using a low carb dough to start with, so it ought to work.
If your Hba1c is not all that high and you are prepared to eat careful amounts until you get back to normal levels then it should only take a few tests with a meter to show what you can or can't deal with.
I have been in the normal ranges for some years, and I could eat ordinary foods and not spike - but I'd put on weight so fast, so I keep to low carb as that has always kept my weight steady. I must be one of the few people who has not put on weight during lockdown.
 

Larna

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Sorry for the gaps in my replies here. I really appreciate all the replies, ideas, help and general sharing :)

I don't have any way to test my sugar levels yet. I'm considering asking my Dr if he'll prescribe this?

My day usually starts early with a first lot of medication, a coffee and a couple of biscuits (need something solid to push the capsules low enough to not give indigestion). So I was thinking, what about nut/quinoa bars that have lower than 25% carb according to the package info? If I had one of those instead of biscuits?

Then I'm going to swap my favourite cereal (eaten 3 hours later when we get up), which atm is Crunchy nut cornflakes (oops!) for shreddies original, which a bit lower carb.

Weekend breakfast is usually traditional english cooked... so if I just drop the toast and add more mushrooms instead to go with my egg, bacon and tomatoe... should be better option I hope?

I still think I want to keep some bread so I looked at the nutritional panel on the mix for the oat&linseed, which said 41% carb (lower than most breads), I will have to eat it less often but maybe can get away with some?

Potatoes I can swap for new potatoes. Cut pasta as we aren't mad on it. Pastry I can just cut completely. Also when he cooks his favourite stew insist on NO dumplings for me.

Then for me alone (as he won't eat them) salads or stir-fry veggies with protein more often as I do love them but have been rather lazily eating same as him even if I would prefer different.

I think that looks like a step in the right direction. The huge sticker is supper. We never eat desert with dinner, instead we eat it 3 hours later. So cake or ice cream or chocolate etc. This is the hugest carb/sugar load of the day and WILL be the hardest to improve. Especially as I honestly do not want to give up ice cream and chocolate. I still need to think hard about this and work out some way to improve it.
 

Leadinglights

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
With a diagnosis of diabetes you have to change your mind set about the foods you have and things that were everyday things have to become a treat, so the cake and ice cream unless you look to making your own low carb versions would need to be a very small portion.
Cereals are high carb breakfast options so maybe swap your portion of shreddies for Greek yoghurt with berries and maybe just a small portion of a low sugar cereal like All bran or Granola mainly for the crunch. Your weekend breakfasts are a very good choice, but even on other days eggs are a option for a low carb breakfast especially if you are having biscuits on waking. Something like Nature Valley protein bars are only about 10g carb per bar.
If you continue to have potatoes and bread then just watch portion size.
You have to ask yourself 'do I really need desert if I'm having it so much later or is it just a habit or am I actually hungry. Better options there would be yoghurt and berries, cheese, nuts, 1 square of a dark chocolate.
Whatever you decide to do has to be sustainable for the long term and you have to like the foods you have.
 

Larna

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I think we're looking at things differently Leadinglights? You quote total per bar but I'm looking at percentage.
Nature valley protein bar is 23% lowest but some are as high as 41%. So that will need care choosing.

So where you are counting carbs across the day... basically dieting.. I'm trying to avoid having to count anything and diet.
What I'm hoping for is a core set of things I can eat without having to count the day. I know my own reactions and counting per day is dieting and will have me climbing the walls and breaking out.

However the advice for supper is sound and I thank you for that :)
 
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Leadinglights

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I think we're looking at things differently Leadinglights? You quote total per bar but I'm looking at percentage.
Nature valley protein bar is 23% lowest but some are as high as 41%. So that will need care choosing.

So where you are counting carbs across the day... basically dieting.. I'm trying to avoid having to count anything and diet.
What I'm hoping for is a core set of things I can eat without having to count the day. I know my own reactions and counting per day is dieting and will have me climbing the walls and breaking out.

However the advice for supper is sound and I thank you for that :)
I don't believe you have mentioned what your HbA1C is so not knowing how far you are into the diabetic zone, it is hard to make suggestions that would be appropriate for you.
You could have a look at the thread What did you eat yesterday for ideas for meals, just be aware that some people as Type 2 will be on insulin or other medication and maybe their carb intake will seem quite a lot more than others who are managing their diabetes with diet alone.
 

Larna

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I did mention it somewhere but not sure where :) HbA1c was 64 at the GP in April. Next blood test will be 4th August.

They did start me on Metformin, 500mg, 2 per day, in May. However I am having some issues with diarhoea a couple of days a week still. My research does suggest that a MR version my be a better option for me but I'll wait for my next result before broaching that with GP.

One thought I had.. I love apple pie but need to cut pastry. Would a pancake stuffed full with stewed apple be a better option?
 

Inka

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1

Leadinglights

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I did mention it somewhere but not sure where :) HbA1c was 64 at the GP in April. Next blood test will be 4th August.

They did start me on Metformin, 500mg, 2 per day, in May. However I am having some issues with diarhoea a couple of days a week still. My research does suggest that a MR version my be a better option for me but I'll wait for my next result before broaching that with GP.

One thought I had.. I love apple pie but need to cut pastry. Would a pancake stuffed full with stewed apple be a better option?
You could try an apple crumble using almond flour (ground almonds) instead of flour which would be lower carb. Replace the sugar with an bit of sweetener if you need to.
 

ianf0ster

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
My initial HbA1C on diagnosis was only 53 (or 7.0%) so lower than the number you quote.
After advice on Low Carb in the diabetes forums (mainly the other one) I decided that I needed to eat to my meter. So I 'self funded' i.e. bought a meter which uses cheap test strips. I bought a Spirit TEE2, but the current model from SD - the Gluco Navii is also popular with self funders.

Testing is before every meal and the 2hrs after 1st bite. I aimed for a rise of no more than 2.0mmol from the meal and a maximum of no more than 8.0 mmol. I found that a zero carb meal (e.g . boiled eggs) would actually reduce my BG in a morning rather than increase it. My Dawn Phenomenon was and still is fairly strong even though my HbA1C has been below even the pre-diabetic range for some time now.

What I found was that many things that were OK for others (a single raw carrot or an apple) spiked my BG - so I learned to avoid them. They may be perfectly OK for you small quantities, but you will never know unless you get a BG meter and test them for yourself.
 

ChrissieMM

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I see advice on various websites for diabetes or weightloss recommending low carb (carb counting) but also on others recommending full on keto diet (carb reduced to the point of getting in ketosis). I wonder if it's really optional which approach is used for diabetics?

For myself: I cannot imagine giving up bread. I've been putting a lot of thought these last couple weeks into what might I live without and what do I not want to give up. Old potatoes can go, pastry can go, cakes need to go, as do biscuits and sweets. But to give up my oat and linseed home made bread would be terrible. Do I really need to? Is there any way to make an oat bread lower carb?

Also I love having breakfast cereal with goat milk. Is there something easily available that would taste like cereal but low carb?

I know I MUST reduce my HbA1c and also MUST reduce my weight. I've always failed at diets so looking for ways to 'adapt' our normal eating with just a few things banned.
Hi
sorry I’m a bit late to this party! I lost 17kg when I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and I cut carb intake down to 130g a day. (Cause and effect?) I would have found it impossible to give up my morning toast so I slice 2 VERY thin slices off a sour dough loaf or from a low GI loaf from my local Booths supermarket. Usually have it with butter and half a slice of ready sliced (not processed) cheese on each slice. Or marmite or peanut butter. Sometimes I have a weighed portion of Lizi’s granola. I know we’re all different but I am now ’in remission’ and have been for some time eating this for breakfast. I think part of it is weighing - the bread weighs 35-40g for the 2 slices and I weigh out 40g of the granola.
 

AngelSprings

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
At risk of diabetes
Hi, reading through the posts already submitted I think ianfOster is right in suggesting you purchase a meter and start testing your blood sugar levels before and after meals. This is the only way you'll discover which foods raise your blood glucose levels. Oat and linseed bread, new potatoes, cereals, would immediately send my BG levels sky high, but we're all different. Look at Dr David Upton's excellent website for advice. and you won't go far wrong.

Best wishes.
 
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