Long Term T2

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Skellei

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Type 2
Hi,

It has been some time since I have posted on this forum. I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes around 20 years ago and thanks to a lot of advice on this forum (and In particular Alan 'Everything in moderation except laughter" S, I did manage to keep it under control for a number of years

However, the last few years have been difficult (my dad passed away and my mum requires a lot of caring then there was covid .... ) and basically I have really let things slip. You would not believe some of my BG readings now I have resumed testing).

I have been trying to be really controlled over the last few weeks, to the point of having nearly zero carbs but my readings are really weird now. My 'baseline' seems to be around 11 ()it used to be 6.2) - I have had a few readings around 6/ 9 after I have been running but it then quickly returns to 11 which also seems to be fasting value. It also does increase after meals to 14/ 15 before falling again. It is almost gas though my body has a new norm. Has anyone else experienced this and does it decrease given time. I do have an appt with my GP but I also want to understand what I can without the help of more meds etc. first.
 
Your GP should be your main adviser of course, but it can be difficult to get an appointment, I know.
As you have had a couple of years at high levels and are only reducing carbs in the last few weeks you might be going through a period of normalizing your storage, which would mean turfing out glucose from all those places found to store it away.
I always found that it was difficult to lose weight as glucose seemed to be more like treacle to get moving - hence your lower readings after running, glucose being dragged out kicking and hanging onto the door is how I visualised it.
Before diagnosis I had been pushed to have lots of 'healthy' carbs, and it took my changing to just 2 meals a day at 12 hour intervals and reducing carbs to get down to 8mmol/l after eating.
Hopefully it will just be a matter of perseverance for you.
Would you like to give a typical day's menu just in case there is something which could be problematic?
I found that peas and beans were something I needed to watch as I seem to get more out of them than the standard value for carbs.
 
Your body gets used to the levels you’ve been having and starts to consider that the normal. So right now it considers 11 your normal and if you’re lower than that it panics and chucks out some glucose to rescue you.

If you keep at it, then it will gradually get used to lower levels. Your options really are stick with it and see if things improve over time, or add medication to help your body along. It would also be worth discussing this with a doctor so it’s good you have the appointment booked.
 
Drummer said:
Your GP should be your main adviser of course, but it can be difficult to get an appointment, I know.
As you have had a couple of years at high levels and are only reducing carbs in the last few weeks you might be going through a period of normalizing your storage, which would mean turfing out glucose from all those places found to store it away.
I always found that it was difficult to lose weight as glucose seemed to be more like treacle to get moving - hence your lower readings after running, glucose being dragged out kicking and hanging onto the door is how I visualised it.
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Not sure this is true.

When we fast, the body releases BG into the blood stream from its glycogen reserves (Liver, muscles and other organs store some.)

If you can't handle that due to IR or insufficient insulin production, it will rise. Hence it will more than likely reach a point where things are balanced. This might be why the OP has a 'new baseline'...?

There are lower readings after running due to the uptake of glucose from the blood stream alongside use of the stored glycogen. Once these have been exhausted, the body will start to generate it from fats and proteins, plus also maybe generate ketones.

We don't store vast amounts of it, hence why athletes need to take fast acting carbs to keep things going.
 
harbottle said:
Not sure this is true.

When we fast, the body releases BG into the blood stream from its glycogen reserves (Liver, muscles and other organs store some.)

If you can't handle that due to IR or insufficient insulin production, it will rise. Hence it will more than likely reach a point where things are balanced. This might be why the OP has a 'new baseline'...?

There are lower readings after running due to the uptake of glucose from the blood stream alongside use of the stored glycogen. Once these have been exhausted, the body will start to generate it from fats and proteins, plus also maybe generate ketones.

We don't store vast amounts of it, hence why athletes need to take fast acting carbs to keep things going.
Click to expand...
I think you might be confusing two different systems - you describe the release of short term stores over a short period, which are soon replenished in a matter of hours at the longest.
I was referring to longer term stores built up over time in diabetic range blood glucose levels and which might take weeks to reduce. Non diabetic people might well see far faster reductions on particular crash diet regimes, but I experienced distress and huge resistance to weightloss in those circumstances like moving through treacle - often with the added factor of being told lots of negatives as I was not losing weight like I should be on that diet plan. The broken system acting on carbohydrates can result in weeks of adjustment after going low carb - as in the Induction period of the Atkins diet, which ought to be done for at least 2 weeks to start to make changes.
 
I've never heard of any 'long' and 'short' term 'glucose stores'. The body stores glucose as glycogen and can pretty much store a day's worth of energy for release when levels go low. It's used when fasting in order to keep the blood topped up and as fuel for muscles/organs when they need it - and it takes quite a while for these stores be be replenished when they are run down.
 
harbottle said:
Not sure this is true.

When we fast, the body releases BG into the blood stream from its glycogen reserves (Liver, muscles and other organs store some.)

If you can't handle that due to IR or insufficient insulin production, it will rise. Hence it will more than likely reach a point where things are balanced. This might be why the OP has a 'new baseline'...?

There are lower readings after running due to the uptake of glucose from the blood stream alongside use of the stored glycogen. Once these have been exhausted, the body will start to generate it from fats and proteins, plus also maybe generate ketones.

We don't store vast amounts of it, hence why athletes need to take fast acting carbs to keep things going.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering where else the body stores glucose as well?
All I got was the same as you, then copious fat reserves!
 
travellor said:
I'm wondering where else the body stores glucose as well?
All I got was the same as you, then copious fat reserves!
Click to expand...

Fat - my long term store of excess energy for 20 years.

Not missed at all!
 
harbottle said:
I've never heard of any 'long' and 'short' term 'glucose stores'. The body stores glucose as glycogen and can pretty much store a day's worth of energy for release when levels go low. It's used when fasting in order to keep the blood topped up and as fuel for muscles/organs when they need it - and it takes quite a while for these stores be be replenished when they are run down.
Click to expand...
I did not see any need to start off on a lecture of 'how the Human body deals with energy storage' and some people have been so harangued about being fat over multiple decades that I just do not use the word all that often.
Other trigger words for many who struggled to eat the high carb foods so pushed as 'healthy' are those used to describe the person - deluded, deranged, glutton, gorging, in denial, deceitful are all ways to describe someone who doesn't conform to the expected weightloss profile, and there is a whole set of negative words used to describe the dangerous fad diet which puts a type 2 diabetic on the right path.
From my early 20s to diagnosis at 65 I heard the same mantra over and over again, and I was mocked for protesting about it.
 
Thanks for all your replies on this.

i do feel that my body believes 11 to be my current norm and i just have to give it time and I know from experience that things rarely behave they are supposed to. I think I can still see evidence of this albeit very slowly

what I find interesting is that i am quite a regular runner and, as I said, running for 30 to 40 minutes will cause a drop of around 4 but the other day when I then tested 60 minutes later it had gone up again despite eating no food. I know it’s probably from my liver reserves but I suppose it confirms the theory has to what my body believes to be normal.

Meds wise, I am on the max dose of metformin and Trajenta
 
I would probably seek some medical advice if I were you, as I don't think the metabolism suddenly decides to regulate blood sugar at 11 rather than 5... while we do apparently get 'used' to having raised BG, and when it drops experience 'fake hypos', it shouldn't be this high as a 'baseline'. T2D does mean the mechanisms for regulation are a bit broken.

Does it stay at 11 even if you fast for a long period of time (8 hours)?
 
The kidneys reabsorb glucose at normal glucose levels. When glucose goes higher it will spill into urine. This is usually around 11mmol, for some people a little higher, some a little lower. I think it is possible that 11 is your spill level, and your meds need to be increased to get to a more normal range.
Best to speak to a Dr to discuss meds
 
Skellei said:
Thanks for all your replies on this.

i do feel that my body believes 11 to be my current norm and i just have to give it time and I know from experience that things rarely behave they are supposed to. I think I can still see evidence of this albeit very slowly

what I find interesting is that i am quite a regular runner and, as I said, running for 30 to 40 minutes will cause a drop of around 4 but the other day when I then tested 60 minutes later it had gone up again despite eating no food. I know it’s probably from my liver reserves but I suppose it confirms the theory has to what my body believes to be normal.

Meds wise, I am on the max dose of metformin and Trajenta
Click to expand...

It's not normal.
Personally I'd be nagging the doctor for a change in meds and more testing to measure what my insulin was doing.
 
Nice to see you again @Skellei 🙂

Some people’s diabetes does change over time.

It is no longer said to be ‘inevitably progressive’, but some people do see periods of progression (though this isn’t always a one-way street, and sometimes the direction of travel can reverse).

It does sound like the appointment with your Dr is timely. Perhaps a little more med support for a while to try to support your metabolism to get those levels a little more in-range. And then perhaps once things have settled for a few months or a year, then maybe see if your body can do OK without of your Dr thinks that’s a good option for you?
 
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