Long covid and diabbetes

[Amy82]

Good evening
Im after some advice from you as no one will give me a straight answer.
I am a carer with dementia patients in a care home and although I have been offered the covid vaccine I am being hesitant, I had covid back in May 2020 and ever since have suffered from long covid symptoms- I am now on inhalers as my breathing gets bad and also my feet are sooooo painful (to the point t of crying when I finish work) I went to see a podiatrist who said they think it is diabetic neuropathy but are doing blood tests to see if anything else underlying - my concern is that I physically can not be off work as I only get statutory sick pay and therefore still have to go to work. I have been hesitant with having the vaccine as asking the professionals whether it cud exaggerate my problems further, not one of them said no and said I needed to seek correct advice ..... I can't seem to find anyone.
Also my work are now threatening to sack people who haven't been vaccine as we r putting the patients at risk.
Im sooo worked up about it, which obviously doesn't help.
Sorry the thread is so long.
Many thanks for your help.

Amy x

 

[Drummer]

Wish I could be of some help but I don't share any of your situation, we are polar opposites.
I had the vaccination a week yesterday, some reaction to it, but that seems to have done me good, I feel great.
In a few months I hope that I will be able to meet up with people for work and for music and dancing - without worrying.
Not having the vaccine seems as though it is going to lead to more and more problems for you.
Maybe try imagining yourself in the situation of having been vaccinated and everything going well for you, and comparing it with the situation now, and what it might become if you do not get vaccinated and the outcome is the most negative one for you.
I do hope that your health issues can be helped and resolved with no further problems.

 

[Inka]

@Amy82 I’m sorry you’re suffering with Long Covid. I’ve not read anything that says that’s a contraindication to having the vaccine. I think there’s a Facebook for Long Covid. Perhaps they would know who to contact to ask, or perhaps they’ve already had the vaccine themselves. I had my vaccine today and there was nothing on the leaflet about that being a reason not to be vaccinated. In fact, I’d think it would make it even more important to have the vaccine.

No-one can make you have the vaccine but personally I think it’s morally wrong to continue looking after very vulnerable people unvaccinated. I wouldn’t be happy at all as a relative of someone with dementia.

Very few people get bad reactions to the vaccine. Most feel fine or, if they do feel rough, feel better in a couple of days.

Sorry about your feet problems. I hope you get help with that. If your in tears when you finish work, that doesn’t sound like something you should have to put up with. It sounds miserable for you. Have you been offered any medication?

 

[Inka]

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-israel-vaccine-int-idUSKBN2AJ08J

The study shows the Pfizer vaccine cuts transmission by a large percent.

 

[freesia]

Hi @Amy82 I read recently that there was talk of some employers having it written into new contracts for people starting work with them that they need to be vaccinated to be employed. However they couldn't/wouldn't be making changes to existing contracts. I don't know whether this is something that is going to be made law but it might be worth ringing Citizens Advice and asking if they can sack you. At the moment, vaccine is not compulsory.
I hope you get your feet sorted out soon.

 

[Inka]

They might not be able to sack people but they could be moved to a non-facing role. The employer could be liable to legal action if they fail to protect their residents. They could also lose residents when they’re moved to Homes that protect them better.

Personally, if I chose not to have the vaccine I’d resign and get a more suitable job.

 

[RirisR]

You don't say whether you have seen your Dr?...He should be aware
more than any other what is best for you and if you are able to take
this vaccine a face to face appointment if that is at all possible then
you can discuss your fears xx

 

[Inka]

Hi Inka,

It sounded a bit harsh to me. These employers are more than happy for their staff to risk their own health working in close contact with people, but after going to all the effort to develop and roll out vaccinations to protect the most vulnerable, to then turn on their staff and threaten them with the sack even though the residents are vaccinated seems harsh.

I don’t underestimate the work carers do. It’s damn hard and they’re under-appreciated and often underpaid.

However, I wouldn’t be happy at all with a carer taking unnecessary risks with my loved ones health. It’s not just about the company, it’s about the relatives of the residents. They could take legal action too. I would quite frankly. I don’t care how big or small the risk is to the residents. They’re already extremely vulnerable and should be protected.

In the NHS, I understand some people have been redeployed to non-facing roles if they can’t wear a mask, for example.

 

[pinnig]

It may sound harsh but it is possible if it's considered to be a refusal to comply with a reasonable management instruction to be vaccinated. If there's no reason for refusal in the context of having a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act and no prospect of redeployment to a different role (and that would be a discretionary decision, not one of right) then the employer could take disciplinary action and potentially dismiss. If the action is procedurally sound then a fair (in a legal sense) dismissal is an entirely possible outcome.

That said, it would take a fairly brave employer to take that step. The attached link talks through a range of scenarios.

No jab, no job? Six Covid vaccination questions for HR

Last week, the owner of Pimlico Plumbers said he wouldn't offer a job to anyone who hasn't been vaccinated. Given that the general working population

www.personneltoday.com

 

[Bruce Stephens]

These employers are more than happy for their staff to risk their own health working in close contact with people, but after going to all the effort to develop and roll out vaccinations to protect the most vulnerable, to then turn on their staff and threaten them with the sack even though the residents are vaccinated seems harsh.

From the perspective of caring for the residents you can see why it makes sense, though?

The vaccines (or rather our immune systems having been primed by the vaccines) aren't going to be perfect at protecting against the virus. And that's more true for older people (our immune systems tend to get weaker as we age).

Even for the under 65s, estimates of efficacy vary from ~60% to ~95% (and a bit lower for a single dose, though people in care homes will be the first to receive their second doses).

So it helps to also have people they'll be interacting with vaccinated. There's uncertainty about how much difference the vaccines will make to transmission but nobody thinks they won't have any effect (and the data that's available suggests they'll be pretty good).

So (like most vaccines) they're partly about protecting the person vaccinated and partly a population intervention: reducing spread of whatever the infection is.

 

[Drummer]

After all that happened in care homes when people were sent to them when infected and some homes lost a high percentage of their residents, I don't think that logic is going to be any help. People looking for places for their family will want to be assured that everyone is vaccinated, that there are tests and PPE available.

 

[Inka]

@Amy82 I found this for you. I hope it gives you some reassurance:

Can we have the vaccine if still having post-viral fatigue ('long COVID') from a previous COVID infection?​

The Green Book published says symptoms of 'long COVID' are not a contraindication.

With long COVID the symptoms persist for months. Would it be safe to have the vaccine if still suffering from it?​

The Green Book published says symptoms of 'long COVID' are not a contraindication.

https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/working-for-us/staff/covid-staff-faqs-vaccine.aspx

.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I was mainly responding to @Amy82 circumstances. @Amy82 was saying that she had covid last year and had been suffering ever since. She was concerned (a valid concern) what affect having a vaccine might have on her existing covid problems. Like most of us, she needs to work to feed herself and provide a shelter over her head. Nobody seems to be able to give her an answer about what the implications could be for taking a vaccine whilst suffering from covid19, hence her post on this forum. I also don't know the answer to @Amy82 question. I might add having type 1 diabetes is no fun either.

Yes, and I wouldn't suggest that a care home should insist on a vaccination. I'd like to hope that employers would want to be sympathetic to people who really couldn't take a vaccination for some reason. My comment was just that it's not irrational to want carers to be vaccinated even once residents have been vaccinated.

I can believe nobody wants to say that someone with diabetes and long covid will be safe taking the vaccine. In that case personally I'd be happy taking it, but that's just me. (Neither independently seems like it should be enough to cause a problem and I don't see why both together would make a difference.)

So I think @Amy82 should probably just take the vaccination when it's offered (so following the advice, basically). I don't think anyone really knows what it might do with long covid, but that doesn't mean taking the vaccination will be more likely to be bad than good.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

See page 17 Precautions.

Yes, those are good points. Probably more of a judgement call than I was thinking.

 

[Inka]

Yes @Amity Island that’s the document. The advice is also repeated by a number of patient-centred organisations eg the British Lung Foundation. Long Covid is not a reason to avoid the vaccine. The precautions are just common sense.

I’m more concerned about what @Amy82 said about her feet. That’s horrible and I hope she can get that sorted.

 

[Lanny]

I’m very similar to you @Amy82 in that I had CV in May & still haven’t fully recovered! I keep getting bouts every few weeks when my asthma flares up again & I can barely move despite doubling the doses of my inhalers that last about a week to 10 days: there’s a rough patch for the first 2 or 3 days were I’m half sitting in bed barely able to move that then starts to get better & the inhalers have a longer lasting effect! When I went into hospital back in May the virus was already in my lungs, showed up on x-rays, & I think it’s still there & flares up every now & then!

I’ve considered the pros & cons of the vaccine & have decided to take it when it eventually comes up to my turn, currently doing tier 5 in my area & I’m tier 6, as it’s been cited for some time now that any immunity acquired from having it is very short lived & there doesn’t seem to be anything to say that it’ll make things worse for me. I have other ongoing health issues too that have been put on hold during this pandemic that need getting seen to & being vaccinated along with everyone else is that bit safer when services restart & those issues get seen to again: they haven’t gone away; just don’t know what progression, if any, has occurred in the interim?