Junior doctors row has derailed seven-day NHS plans, says top doctor

[Northerner]

The NHS’s top doctor believes that Jeremy Hunt’s row with junior doctors has “derailed” the government’s push to turn the NHS into a seven-day service.

Prof Sir Bruce Keogh also signalled his unhappiness with the health secretary’s controversial decision to impose a new contract on the 45,000 junior doctors in England, calling it “one of the saddest days I have seen in the NHS”.

Keogh also rejected Hunt’s key justification for forcing all doctors below consultant level to accept new terms, that more of them need to work at weekends to improve the care of patients.

Keogh – a long-time campaigner for a seven-day NHS – made his remarks on Monday at a meeting with doctors and medical students at King’s College London’s Guy’s campus.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...-row-derailed-seven-day-nhs-plans-bruce-keogh

Waiting for Hunt to come out and say that 7-Day NHS was 'only a suggestion' 🙄

 

[trophywench]

Well - I certainly hope it has derailed him - let's face it, they (the NHS as opposed to the Gov) are already - from the Budget - going to get less annual dosh because of having to contribute more to their employees pensions - and no doubt will have to cut even more staff and services because of that - and WE will have to bear the brunt of that anyway.

 

[Rosiecarmel]

The NHS IS 7 days a week. If you go into hospital on a Sunday night you will get exactly the same care as you would on a Wednesday morning! GPs and such are usually 9-5 mon-friday but he's talking about hospitals mainly here. We've admitted patients to wards and had duty doctors come with another mental health professional at 10pm on a Saturday night to admit someone and do a mental health act assessment.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting all of this but forcing junior doctors to accept terms forcing them to work longer hours for less money is stupid and dangerous in my opinion.

 

[Ljc]

Having worked for part of the NHS for 40 yrs , happily retired now.
I have much sympathy for the junior doctors. In the past they tried to force some nasty changes on us, so I have some idea of what they are going through. One of the changes they wanted was , for us to work part of our working day for no pay.

I've also been hospitalised twice since last June. Once because I broke my hip and upper humorous , all the staff on my ward worked hard and patients were admitted and had their joints repaired or replaced over the weekend.

The second time was earlier this year , I spent nearly three weeks in hospital on the vascular ward , I had an infection and ulcerated toes . Over the weekends people were being admitted for planned operations as well as the emergency admissions.

 

[Amigo]

The NHS IS 7 days a week. If you go into hospital on a Sunday night you will get exactly the same care as you would on a Wednesday morning! GPs and such are usually 9-5 mon-friday but he's talking about hospitals mainly here. We've admitted patients to wards and had duty doctors come with another mental health professional at 10pm on a Saturday night to admit someone and do a mental health act assessment.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting all of this but forcing junior doctors to accept terms forcing them to work longer hours for less money is stupid and dangerous in my opinion.

I've thought about this long and hard since reading it Rosie and having been unfortunate to be admitted to hospitals many more times than I'd like, I'm not sure it feels true to me. Certainly emergency treatment is given in the same way as needed but I find a 'lull' descends on the wards over the weekends. My father loathed weekend admissions and always said he didn't feel proper attention started till Mondays when the wards energise and the Consultants return. I saw Consultants weekdays this time but not over the weekend.
My experience with out of hours emergency services was poor too. I'd much rather require help on a Wed morning than the early hours of a Sunday morning to be honest.

Nonetheless, I have immense solidarity with the junior doctors and don't envy them their role or hours at times.

 

[Northerner]

I've thought about this long and hard since reading it Rosie and having been unfortunate to be admitted to hospitals many more times than I'd like, I'm not sure it feels true to me. Certainly emergency treatment is given in the same way as needed but I find a 'lull' descends on the wards over the weekends. My father loathed weekend admissions and always said he didn't feel proper attention started till Mondays when the wards energise and the Consultants return. I saw Consultants weekdays this time but not over the weekend.
My experience with out of hours emergency services was poor too. I'd much rather require help on a Wed morning than the early hours of a Sunday morning to be honest.

Nonetheless, I have immense solidarity with the junior doctors and don't envy them their role or hours at times.

I'd certainly agree that a 'lull' descends over the weekends, with my limited experience of one weekend! It was definitely much quieter generally than during the week. However, I think the key thing is not so much whether it would be desirable to have full 24/7 NHS, but whether it is attempted to obtain it on overstretched resources and without extra funding - that's just cloud cuckoo land and to try and turn it into 'militant' resistance standing in the way is just beyond contempt in my opinion. Fund it! Raise taxes, ring-fence the revenue and fund it properly! Make the NHS an attractive proposition, don't drive talented people away! 😱

 

[Rosiecarmel]

I must admit, I do agree with you regarding wards, Amigo. Emergency care should be exactly the same 24/7 and from what I've personally and professionally experienced it is (I'm not stating it's true for everyone, but for hospitals near me it seems to be)

Wards should also be exactly the same. However I will acknowledge that some wards and some staff do act differently. Usually there aren't ward rounds with consultants on a weekend however there should ALWAYS be a duty doctor on call in case of emergencies. Nothing much seems to get done on a weekend unless it's an emergency and I admit that some staff, myself included, have used weekends in order to get paperwork done because we're literally drowning in it and during the week there just isn't time. As patients don't see this, it looks like we're not doing anything. Since there are no ward rounds, usually no routine procedures etc, if a person needs their blood pressure doing, for example, it can probably wait a bit longer than it should. If we had more staff this probably wouldn't be an issue.

It seems to me that all of the NHS is pushed to its limits and most departments, not just wards, are understaffed.

Maybe I'm naive and not yet jaded because I'm still learning but I do feel that emergency care is brilliant in the NHS although 9-5 work could possibly be improved. (I feel doctors surgeries could do with a revamp. Ringing up at 8:30 and praying you get an appointment otherwise you have to ring back the next day is impossible for most working people)

For emergency care, I wouldn't mind what day I got admitted. However I don't agree with the way 111 is run. I don't know about other people's GP surgeries but mine no longer has any out of hours doctors. It's just 111 and they just follow a script. I remember ringing not long ago about a burst abscess (I posted about it in another thread) and the guy had no idea how to react. He asked me irrelevant questions and advised me to stop cleaning my open wound and wait until Monday morning. I ended up on IV anti biotics over the weekend and the care I received in hospital was brilliant.

I have seen junior doctors doing a 12 hour shift and ending up leaving late trying to help patients so not leaving for 14 or so hours. Then going home and coming back the next day. I don't think it's realistic to force these new contracts upon junior doctors as they may end up working unsafe hours (some probably already do) for less money.

That's just my personal opinion on the NHS and I fully support the strikes and protests etc. I acknowledge that everyone has different experiences and some people may have had terrible experiences unfortunately which has coloured the way they view this and I probably would feel the same, too.

 

[AlisonM]

What @Northerner said. I've been admitted over a weekend in the past and had adequate care, not counting the insulin/testing issue which is a constant. But, it's not been that much different during the week carewise, medical staff are doing their best with increasingly shrinking resources and increasing stress. I admire their commitment and dedication and I regard this latest wheeze as another nail in the NHS coffin. It's simply an attempt to force people into the private sector (both medicals and patients) so they can justify the wholesale dismantling of a system that will leave millions without necessary care. This could be us in 20-30 years time.

 

[Alan.tnh]

I Have to say, I was admitted on a Friday afternoon, seen by all the right people, consultant sat and sun I was in a bad way with blood poisoning, I was in 2 weeks and the only difference weekends was no physio. I can honestly say whenever my family have been in real need, (not belly ache from to much chocolate) the NHS has always been there.