Is this Dirty Dawn's Doing or summat else?

[MeeTooTeeTo]

Hi everyone. This is a call-out to my fellow posters, who like me, are self-managing by diet and exercise only.

I’ve now been regularly testing for a month or so and have got a nearly full set of results for June. My background was mathematics and systems analysis/testing, but I have never encountered such a complex problem to get a handle on.

Basically, what I can see so far is this: (times pre and post meals are 2hrs on the dot)

Waking levels: Min 4.2_Max 6.1_ Month Av 5.1
Post Breakfast: Min 5.5 _ Max 9.3 _ Month Av 7.2
Pre-Lunch: Min 4.6 _ Max 7.1_ Month Av 6.1
Post Lunch: Min 4.9 _ Max 6.8_ Month Av 5.9
Pre-Dinner: Min 3.8 _ Max 5.9 _ Month Av 4.7
Post Dinner: Min 4.4 _ Max 8.8 _ Month Av 5.9
Bedtime: Min 4.2 _ Max 6.4 _ Month Av 5.7

So, they start off good normal values and rise after breakfast, (I’ve just started to test another 2 hrs after that and in some cases, they are still rising, but I don’t have enough data on that yet.) There is a slight rise after lunch. They then fall until before dinner (I exercise every day in the afternoon). There is usually an acceptable rise after dinner and a slight drop at bedtime.

What I’m trying to get to the bottom of is the spike 2 hours after breakfast. In some cases, it’s been a rise of 4.4! In the early days I think I may have wrongly condemned some foods as being the cause because in further tests they had a much less effect. If the pre breakfast number is low, then the spike is greater and vice versa e.g. 4.4 >> 9.2 and 5.6 >> 6.8 On the occasions when I have skipped breakfast the levels (allowing for +/-10% accuracy) have stayed the same.

I eat low/reduced carbs between 25 and 75 per day. The ratio is about 20% breakfast and 40% lunch and dinner. I don’t snack in between meals. I suffer badly from GORD and take Lansoprazole first thing in the morning. At first, I suspected it might be having an effect but that was disproved by a trial run of taking it last thing at night.

Nearly finished!

Just a few questions/hypotheses for you seasoned experts.

1. I know of the dreaded Dawn Phenomenon and that it can last up until 11am. Could this be it? One solution suggested eating a small number of carbs & fat before bed. But from past bitter experience (excuse the intended pun) anything after 8-9pm wakes up my pal GORD.

2. I am a long-term insomniac, could disturbed sleep or lack of sleep be having an effect? I never suspected that so have just started recording my sleep patterns to investigate.

3. Am I not eating enough for breakfast?

4. Should I time shift my meals to later or start having brunch at my usual lunchtime?

I don’t believe in fairies but I’m beginning to suspect there may be a diabetic one! As my fictional hero would say, “This is quite a three-pipe problem, Watson.”

I’d be very grateful for any help and advice based on your own experiences.

Dez

 

[trophywench]

What are you actually eating for brekkie? - clearly not 100% protein, so what is it?

 

[trophywench]

PS the Diabetes Fairy is a FACT.

Enter her name in the Search box of the forum and meet the annoying little whatsit …..

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

What are you actually eating for brekkie? - clearly not 100% protein, so what is it?

Sorry not sure what you mean about 100% protein?
Here are 2 examples
(1) Pre breakfast reading 5.2
Breakfast:
Avocado 2.9 carbs
Slice Burgen 11.8 carbs
Greek Yoghurt 5.4 carbs
Post Breakfast reading 9.3

(2) Pre breakfast reading 4.4
Breakfast:
Scrambled eggs 2 carbs
Blackberries 5 carbs
Greek Yoghurt 5.4 carbs
Post Breakfast reading 8.6

 

[rebrascora]

I believe that many people are more insulin resistant in the morning so those higher readings are not surprising. You do have less carbs in the second menu, so that would account for a lower rise and also it may be that the carbs from the bread are spiking you higher and for longer than carbs from the eggs and fruit/yoghurt in the second menu. I don't eat bread at all now because it spikes me for 8-10hrs. Eggs are usually pretty slow release and 2 carbs is really not going to register anything obvious. Try a mushroom omelette with side salad and see how you get on. You can vary it with ham/cheese/onion/peppers etc or a full English but avoid any bread/toast/cereals in the morning. That works best for me.

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

I believe that many people are more insulin resistant in the morning so those higher readings are not surprising. You do have less carbs in the second menu, so that would account for a lower rise and also it may be that the carbs from the bread are spiking you higher and for longer than carbs from the eggs and fruit/yoghurt in the second menu. I don't eat bread at all now because it spikes me for 8-10hrs. Eggs are usually pretty slow release and 2 carbs is really not going to register anything obvious. Try a mushroom omelette with side salad and see how you get on. You can vary it with ham/cheese/onion/peppers etc or a full English but avoid any bread/toast/cereals in the morning. That works best for me.

Thanks Barbara
Yes I've (for the moment) stopped eating bread because even the Burgen bread that many people swear by was sending my levels upwards. Eggs and mushrooms together in various disguises seem to have the least effect on me. I just have to get my head around having things like salad for breakfast.
What do you think of my idea about delaying eating until later? Eating has never been a big thing for me and quite a lot of the time I eat because I think I should do, rather than because I have a desire to.

 

[rebrascora]

Personally I think having breakfast most mornings is a good idea and just skip it occasionally, but you can make it as light as you like, so maybe just some fruit and yoghurt if you are not actually hungry. This morning I had some antipasti.... olives and cheese and salami and Serrano ham, just for a change from my omelette.... there are no real carbs in that and a little goes a long way and then a creamy mushroom soup (homemade by my wonderful brother in law) for lunch. Then I have my main carbs portion.... tatties/pasta etc ....on an evening.
If you are below normal BMI then I think it is important to eat more regularly and similarly, if you are exercising a lot or doing manual work, but for the average person, skipping a meal here and there should not be a problem.
I am on Metformin morning and evening so I need to have something substantial to take that with or I will feel the consequences, so most mornings my omelette is a necessity and I do find it a bit of a chore to eat such a plateful sometimes.... hence my continental breakfast this morn. I often skip lunch if I have had omelette for breakfast.

 

[trophywench]

Simply because you don't need carbs in order to break your fast so it's counter intuitive to eat carbs at all at a time of day when you're most insulin resistant. The body can make glucose (to fuel the cells) out of whatever we feed it including protein and fat but it has to work harder to do that, so it will always process any carbohydrate first.

 

[Ditto]

If I don't eat Atkins I get excruciating gord. That's how I know Atkins can't be bad. I feel so good on it. Just eat eggs for breakfast or if you feel it's not enough have something with them, I'd say bacon but maybe not! Maybe an omelette or whatever. You are eating something that gives you the gord, need to figure out what it is. The three things guaranteed to give me gord are bread, weetabix and Heinz vegetable soup, the radiactive orange one in a can.

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

If I don't eat Atkins I get excruciating gord. That's how I know Atkins can't be bad. I feel so good on it. Just eat eggs for breakfast or if you feel it's not enough have something with them, I'd say bacon but maybe not! Maybe an omelette or whatever. You are eating something that gives you the gord, need to figure out what it is. The three things guaranteed to give me gord are bread, weetabix and Heinz vegetable soup, the radiactive orange one in a can.

@Ditto I don't eat bread anymore. I have found my GORD has been quite manageable recently, so much so that I was thinking about having a word with the doc and trying to reduce the dosage of Lansoprazole.

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

Simply because you don't need carbs in order to break your fast so it's counter intuitive to eat carbs at all at a time of day when you're most insulin resistant. The body can make glucose (to fuel the cells) out of whatever we feed it including protein and fat but it has to work harder to do that, so it will always process any carbohydrate first.

Thank you Jenny for explaining - I shall take your advice on board.🙂

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

Thank you Jenny for explaining - I shall take your advice on board.🙂

UPDATE:
Pre brek 5.8
Bacon & Avocado Buttie (minus the bread )
2hrs after 6.1

R E S U L T !

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

PS the Diabetes Fairy is a FACT.

Enter her name in the Search box of the forum and meet the annoying little whatsit …..

Yes, I heard a couple of people discussing her at my last check-up - down at the elf centre.
I'll get me coat!

 

[Ditto]

@Ditto I don't eat bread anymore. I have found my GORD has been quite manageable recently, so much so that I was thinking about having a word with the doc and trying to reduce the dosage of Lansoprazole.

I am and always will be tempted by bread. I could live on bread and potatoes alone and be quite happy. Watching that documentary about them sweeping the barbershop floors of China to put into bread has stopped me craving somewhat. The thought of it makes me want to hurl. I should stop watching all these documentaries!

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

Yabba dabba do!!

Following Martin’s advice @Anitram re cooking pasta and then cooling it before re-heating it. I’m happy to say it worked for me!!

As recommended, I had Dez’s special Spag Bolg (14g carbs) and 40g wholegrain/spelt spaghetti with mountains of Parmigiano Reggiano, basil and a Keith Floyd sized slurp of a very very passable Barolo and . . . . . .

Pre-meal reading 5.4
Post-meal reading 6.8

That’s what I call a result. Thank you @Anitram for the help and advice!!!

Dez

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

Update:

Further to last night’s experiment, I repeated it tonight with the exact same amount of spag bolg (14g carbs) but instead of 40g wholegrain/spelt spaghetti (11-12g carbs) cooked alla maniera di @Anitram, I substituted the spaghetti for 200g of home-made courgetti (3.6g carbs)

Pre-meal reading 4.9
Post-meal reading 5.9

Not much in it in terms of relative BG increase.
The jury’s still out on this one!!
Further testing is necessary!!

Dez 😳

 

[MeeTooTeeTo]

Try the pasta without cooking, cooling and reheating it to see if you get a different result. In theory your post-prandial should be higher without the cooling and reheating.

Martin

Will do soon. Just looking at the values for Sainsbo’s wholegrain spelt versus durum wheat spaghetti. Not a lot of difference, or am I missing something. What brand did you use?