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Is fasting good?

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happydog

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I met a lady at the weekend who told me that her brother is diabetic and that he has found that fasting helps with BG control. Apparently he often does not have breakfast and does not eat until lunchtime and also fasts completely for 24 hours each week. She said that it helps with Dawn Phenomenon. I thought that it was good to have regular meals and maintain even levels if possible. I am now a bit confused. Any thoughts? 🙂
 
Despite "conventional wisdom" I usually do 16/24 with no ill health & stable FBG numbers, generally in the 5.0 range so (for me) I'd say it helps with my diabetes management. I also (generally) only eat when hungry, so often skip meals. I also do Ketogenic LCHF...

This morning My FBG was 4.8, 5 hours later, having just come in from walking the dogs & about to have lunch it's 5.5..... I would say that that's pretty typical.

As for 24 hour fasts, my wife doesn't particularly like me doing that but I do occasionally sneak one in, particularly if my weight is fluctuating a bit
 
I am afraid I can go overnight no problem, but if I don't have my evening meal about 6 pm not matter what my blood sugar, I can not concentrate and get very grumpy! I then manage to 8 am the next morning no problem!
 
If I have dinner around 6pm and don't have a small snack before bed, I can go low in the morning.
 
There's quite a lot of evidence to suggest "fasting" or sporadic eating is really good for the human body in lots of ways Happydog, but then there's quite a lot of evidence that little often is good for some people too, so you have to take it all with a healthy dose of salt and see what works for you I suppose. Fasting does nothing for me, but then that might be because I'm a very controlled eater (too controlled, but that's another story) and the basic principle of fasting "diets" is that you overeat and undereat in a cycle. The idea is that the human body is made to fluctuate between feast and famine, in the caveman days we wouldn't have had the resources to kill an animal every day, so we'd have fed on raw flesh till stuffed and then starved for a few days, or lived on berries and a few leaves (I wouldn't have been a happy cave woman 😳). So basically they had a cycle of stuffing themselves with delicious raw flesh 😱 then storing that as fat (and glucose), those stores would have been used up well before the next poor creature was killed. The most interesting bit of course if they'd have next to no access to carbohydrate, so the current philosophy of eating twice our body weight in carb is interesting to say the least, we're clearly not made to process that amount of carbohydrate. Dawn phenomena is thought to be related to excess glucose stores. So the liver is programmed to release glucose in the morning to get you moving and ready for hard physical work, on the basis that you'd be starving most of the time. It has no clue how much glucose you actually need btw it just shoves out as much as it can spare, so if you over eat carbohydrate (and actually protein and fat but that's harder to achieve) then you get dawn phenomena because your body will push out too much glucose because it has too much. Fasting helps with that because the process of fasting makes the body utilise the energy source it has and effectively empties the bank vaults. Whether you take well to fasting is complex though, because it assumes that all counter regulatory and regulatory processes are working properly, and that's not the case for everyone. The liver's counter regulatory response in those with T1 is often wonky, and I believe there's increasing evidence to suggest that some categories of T2 and MODY have much the same issue. Although to be fair there's also some evidence to suggest fasting might help with that wonky response 🙄

I don't fast, but then I'm more likely to have a dawn hypo than dawn phenomena, and honestly I dislike starvation, it's a flaw I know but it's just the way I roll 🙂
 
If one is fasting I take it that you omit the bolus injection until such time as you do eat. What about the basal?
 
If one is fasting I take it that you omit the bolus injection until such time as you do eat. What about the basal?
If your basal is set correctly, its job is to hold you steady, and mop up the glucose that your liver trickles out 24 hours a day to keep the body ticking over. So, yes, continue with basal, but fasting is a good opportunity to find out if it's doing its job. If your levels steadily rise, or steadily fall while fasting, it needs adjusting.
 
You carry on taking basal, as that deals with the stream of glucose that your liver is constantly checking out to allow your brain to keep functioning until you eat again.
 
Thanks Sally and Robin. I think I will give this a try as I have what I consider horrendous dawn phenomenon.
 
For anyone interested in Intermittent or more comprehensive fasting could do well to look up Jason Fung on YouTube.
 
Dawn phenomena is thought to be related to excess glucose stores. So the liver is programmed to release glucose in the morning to get you moving and ready for hard physical work, on the basis that you'd be starving most of the time. It has no clue how much glucose you actually need btw it just shoves out as much as it can spare, so if you over eat carbohydrate (and actually protein and fat but that's harder to achieve) then you get dawn phenomena because your body will push out too much glucose because it has too much. Fasting helps with that because the process of fasting makes the body utilise the energy source it has and effectively empties the bank vaults. 🙂

I have never heard this before, but my own experience has led me to theorise something similar. I've been trying to lose weight since Feb and my dawn phenomenon seems to have gone awol, and I have found that my basal tests give very different results on different days, so I wondered whether basal needs might be affected by the day before's carb intake and exercise. Please could you direct me to sources that I can quote to my consultant as she talks about basal testing as if it's an exact science.
 
I am Canadian and have used a Fasting Mimicking Program in the past. It's not complete fasting but works the same way. I had good improvements but was getting it from the US and haven't been able to get it since I moved to the UK. I read that ProLon will be in the UK soon so I look forward to trying it again.
 
Fasting!? NOOOOOOOOooo
 
If I have dinner around 6pm and don't have a small snack before bed, I can go low in the morning.
this is interesting cos when i started having night hipos and really low morning readings i was told to lower my insulin by 2 units and wait 3 days. the expert course suggest that by counting carbs you can often experience hipos and this is an indicator that (because of diet changes) you need less insulin. when i started carb counting my dose went from 46 to 38 in the mornings and from 46 to 40 in the evening.

Fasting causes me to ask- what do you do about your insulin dose on fasting days - sounds risky to me and as a nurse i question the outcomes. I do however experience acid reflux from a hiatus hernia and nausea from pain meds so i do have days when i dont eat very much at all. i do however alter my insulin dose on those days
 
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