Is ATOS fit for purpose?

[StephenM]

As many of you will have seen previously I am in favour for the long term sick being assessed for their fitness to work. There are further assessments being made as DLA changes to PIP. As a tax payer I am as I said in favour of this. However the problem I have is that I am now starting to think that organisations like ATOS are not fit for purpose. The friend of a friend has not worked for some years following a serious RTA. He is in constant pain and has to maintain a balance between taking enough pain killers to get some relief but not so many that he goes into a stupor. However ATOS decided he was fit for work. This was overturned on appeal with statements from a senior orthopaedic consultant and a physiotherapist saying that his condition could only get worse. A good friend with a very painful degenerative spine condition has also been classed as fit for work and is appealing the decision. Both these people are over 60! It seems that besides ATOS (think another agency is now involved) not being fit for purpose that the DWP focus on the wrong people. Change is needed but it has to be done properly and fairly!

 

[AlisonM]

So you're beginning to see the light at last? Good, it's about time.

I'm in much the same position as your friends, with increasing levels of pain and other issues, such as serious memory problems that affect every aspect of my life and mean I've had to give up my job because I can't do it any more. I've had cortisone injections to try and reduce the inflammation and have just been prescribed an anti-inflammatory pill I'll be taking from this week in addition to needing two sticks to walk even a few yards. I have to rely on my mobile phone and a friend's help to ensure I don't forget important stuff like appointments, medications and paying bills. I hardly leave the house any more, unless I must, because I'm afraid something might happen and crowds scare me. I've been bumped into and sent flying more than once because I'm unsteady on my feet and slow, and can't get out of the way fast enough to suit some folk.

My appeal will be heard on Monday and I agree ATOS is not fit for purpose but then, given the rules they must work under I'm not sure any firm would be. Remember, it's not ATOS that makes the decision it's the bean counters at the DWP. I have seen nothing to suggest that the decision makers are even qualified medical staff, though the actual examiners must be.

People being put through this inquisition (and that is what it feels like as it's quite adversarial) is incredibly stressful on folk who are already under considerable stress. It drags on for months as most folk will appeal, and usually win, which should tell you something about the flaws in the system. I'm told it costs an average of ?5,000 for one appeal and they are hearing thousands across the country every year, at least 75% of which are won by the appellant according to my man at the CAB.

The whole system needs to be re-examined and while assessments are a good idea, I think greater use could be made of local GPs, the ones who deal with patients regularly and who know their situation. I've had the conversation with my doctor and there's no way Dr S would let me get away with anything, he genuinely believes I'm not fit for work and has been quite vocal on the subject. It would save a fair bit of money too as there'd be no need for ATOS.

I'm a tough old bird, and I have the support of good friends, but this business has been giving me nightmares. I hate to think what it does to those less strong than I am.

 

[Cat1964]

My appeal will be heard on Monday and I agree ATOS is not fit for purpose but then, given the rules they must work under I'm not sure any firm would be. Remember, it's not ATOS that makes the decision it's the bean counters at the DWP. I have seen nothing to suggest that the decision makers are even qualified medical staff, though the actual examiners

The examiners at ATOS are either doctors, nurses or in some cases physiotherapists!!! That concerns me a lot that someone with mental health issues could go for their examination at ATOS and end up being examined by a physiotherapist who had little or no experience of mental health and its effects on the sufferer.

In defence of DWP, a lot of time they are driven by what ATOS do. It used to be you had 7 weeks to get the ESA50 (medical questionnaire) back to ATOS. Questionnaire would be sent to you and 4 weeks later if you hadn't returned it you would get a letter from ATOS reminding you about the questionnaire and advising you you still had 3 weeks left to return it. Then because of their backlogs they changed it to 4 weeks, 3 weeks to return it and a 1 week reminder. Then a soon as the week is up they notify DWP that you have failed to return it. I've seen instances of folk phoning ATOS to tell them that their questionnaire might be a day late and ATOS do nothing but close the file. In another instance someone phones ATOS to say they are unable to attend the examination because of X, Y or Z reason and ATOS will not even take the reason down and notify DWP. They tell the person you will receive a letter called a BF223 fill that in. Therefore delaying DWP in being able to make a good cause decision and in some cases the persons claim gets closed. The person phones DWP and says I phoned ATOS and told them why I couldn't go but true to form ATOS haven't notified DWP. ATOS are atrocious and its DWP who bear the pain of ATOS failings. It's about time those in senior government had a good look at the contract ATOS have and appoint a better company than ATOS.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Is ATOS fit for purpose?

No

 

[AlisonM]

Is ATOS fit for purpose?

No

Short and not sweet!

 

[Twitchy]

Is ATOS fit for purpose?

No

Beat me to it!

 

[Cat1964]

Oh and by the way Alison, good luck with the appeal. 🙂

 

[AlisonM]

Oh and by the way Alison, good luck with the appeal. 🙂

Cheers. The man from the CAB went through the descriptors with me and thinks I should win. I have my fingers crossed.

 

[Cat1964]

Cheers. The man from the CAB went through the descriptors with me and thinks I should win. I have my fingers crossed.

Keeping everything crossed for you

 

[Old Holborn]

Cheers. The man from the CAB went through the descriptors with me and thinks I should win. I have my fingers crossed.

Good luck from me to.

 

[FM001]

It seems that besides ATOS (think another agency is now involved) not being fit for purpose that the DWP focus on the wrong people. Change is needed but it has to be done properly and fairly!

It was only last week that you agreed with the government crackdown on the sick and disabled and you said in your estimation that 80% of claimants were fit for work, care to take back those remarks now that your friends have been a victim of the ludicrous shambles that IDS is overseeing🙄

 

[DeusXM]

I'm not against the principle of assessing the level of impairment and entitlement to benefits - after all, I think all of us with diabetes could theoretically put forward a case for benefit but I certainly wouldn't think it fair or right for me to claim it.

The issue is that if you hire a private company to do this work, you have to give them a target by which to say they've done a good job and therefore that means you are prejudicing the interview process. If your incentive is to get X% of people off disability benefit then you're not going to assess in a fair and impartial way.

 

[Steff]

Is ATOS fit for purpose?

No

Agree wholeheartedly there worse then useless

 

[ypauly]

It seems like everybody is declared fit to work at the first interview and are properly assessed on appeal. It is said that nearly 800,000 have decided not to appeal so a strategy that seems to be working.

I'm not sure that this is fair or even correct but is based on a report I read somewhere at some point last week (ish)

 

[Pumper_Sue]

It seems like everybody is declared fit to work at the first interview and are properly assessed on appeal. It is said that nearly 800,000 have decided not to appeal so a strategy that seems to be working.

I'm not sure that this is fair or even correct but is based on a report I read somewhere at some point last week (ish)

That's not true,
I filled in the forms and sent them off, told them I wasn't fit to travel to a meeting and suggested they did a home visit. They obviously could not read so sent me an apt. My GP faxed them a blunt and to the point letter basically telling em to off.
Needless to say I didn't attend and told the dwp I didn't expect to loose my benefit due to my ill health. 😡
Had nice letter back informing me I had been granted esa.

 

[Cat1964]

That's not true,
I filled in the forms and sent them off, told them I wasn't fit to travel to a meeting and suggested they did a home visit. They obviously could not read so sent me an apt. My GP faxed them a blunt and to the point letter basically telling em to off.
Needless to say I didn't attend and told the dwp I didn't expect to loose my benefit due to my ill health. 😡
Had nice letter back informing me I had been granted esa.

ATOS are a law unto themselves. If you're unable to attend a medical you need to get your GP to write ATOS a letter supporting a home visit. Again I have seen ATOS completely ignore this letter or I've also seen where the person says they cat use public transport and again the GP will request a taxi be sent for the person and they also ignore that!! It's shocking. But like yourself, DWP will try and look fairly at these cases of injustice by ATOS. DWP takes a lot of flack for the appalling way that ATOS treats people.

 

[StephenM]

It was only last week that you agreed with the government crackdown on the sick and disabled and you said in your estimation that 80% of claimants were fit for work, care to take back those remarks now that your friends have been a victim of the ludicrous shambles that IDS is overseeing🙄

I still think that there are too many people on benefits that need not be. There also seems a similar degree of dishonesty with regard to ?mobility? cars. My moan was about ATOS ? any system where such a high percentage win on appeal has to be flawed. As DeusXM said ?target driven? systems give the wrong results. They have totally distorted areas such as education.

 

[simonrudd]

it really worries me - i get DLA for mobility (feet problems) and i know before long they will put me over to PIP. i've already been told by someone in the know that i will have my money reduced because i use crutches rather than wheelchair. I have loads of pain and have to take painkillers all the time, i could probably even do with a wheelchair - but i'm a big bloke and i dont think sitting rather than walking is going to do my weight any good. also i live on the 3rd for with no lift

I have nothing against working - i'm self employed and try to earn as much as i can - although its never that much. i have a degree and hnd and a string of other qualifications. there are so few jobs available and all these people being said fit to work are now back looking for jobs that just arent available while trying to cope with their problems

 

[Cat1964]

it really worries me - i get DLA for mobility (feet problems) and i know before long they will put me over to PIP.

You will eventually be put on to PIP. DLA is being done away with so eventually everyone claiming DLA will move on to PIP. Much like Incapacity Benefit is being done away with and all those claimant are being migrated on to ESA. Then it will be all fun and games when Universal Credit starts!!! 😱

 

[Copepod]

Will be interesting to see how the findings vary between ATOS, any other private providers and NHS assessors for the same benefits (DLA, AA & ESA already being assessed; PIP to replace DLA for working age people)- both for initial awards and for awards overturned at appeal. Hopefully, DWP will keep statistics.