Introduction

[Togfather]

Hello all.

I was diagnosed with type 2 about ten years ago. It has been under control for some time but lately has been getting worse. I am now on Gliclazide, Forxiga, and non insulin injections, but I still cannot get my numbers under 10, even if I fast for a day.

I am now looking at seriously losing weight. I have mobility issues and cannot without a stick and even then not very far. I am nearly 70 and live a sedentary lifestyle. I have bought one of those vibrating plates to try and help get the weight off.

I am a member of Mensa, live in Scotland, and enjoy reading, puzzles, photography, and creating artwork.

Best wishes

Tog

 

[Leadinglights]

Hello all.

I was diagnosed with type 2 about ten years ago. It has been under control for some time but lately has been getting worse. I am now on Gliclazide, Forxiga, and non insulin injections, but I still cannot get my numbers under 10, even if I fast for a day.

I am now looking at seriously losing weight. I have mobility issues and cannot without a stick and even then not very far. I am nearly 70 and live a sedentary lifestyle. I have bought one of those vibrating plates to try and help get the weight off.

I am a member of Mensa, live in Scotland, and enjoy reading, puzzles, photography, and creating artwork.

Best wishes

Tog

Welcome to the forum I. sure you will get lots of tips by reading around some of the posts.
If all those medications are not working then your diet is something to look at as it is the food (carbohydrates) you eat which will have a big impact on your blood glucose levels.
As you are on gliclazide you do have to be a bit careful about having too little carbs but there may be room for some reduction in what you are having. People do find they need to re-evaluate their diet periodically. Even though you are not very mobile just any walking you can do will help.
You may find this link useful as well as the Learning Zone and other links here.

Freshwell Low Carb Project - Home

lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk

 

[ianf0ster]

When you fast, you liver releases glucose to be 'helpful' and give you energy to go and hunt/gather food like a cave dweller. Normally some of us see this every morning with what is known as Dawn Phenomenon.

It isn't single one-off BG readings you should be concerned with because they may be strongly influenced by your liver!
Instead it is the food (carbohydrates which almost immediately digest into glucose and are the only non-essential macro-nutrient) which you can and need to control. Test before and 2hrs after meals to check it doesn't spike your BG too much and if it does spike you then modify that meal next time.

It's not rocket science that if you control your carbohydrates then you control ultimately your Blood Glucose because your liver will get used to lower glucose levels and so stop dumping it!

 

[Togfather]

Welcome to the forum I. sure you will get lots of tips by reading around some of the posts.
If all those medications are not working then your diet is something to look at as it is the food (carbohydrates) you eat which will have a big impact on your blood glucose levels.
As you are on gliclazide you do have to be a bit careful about having too little carbs but there may be room for some reduction in what you are having. People do find they need to re-evaluate their diet periodically. Even though you are not very mobile just any walking you can do will help.
You may find this link useful as well as the Learning Zone and other links here.

Freshwell Low Carb Project - Home

lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I noted your comment about gliclazide. As I am planning a low carb diet to lose weight, why is Gliclazide a problem with that?

 

[rebrascora]

Hi Tog and welcome

Sorry to hear you are struggling with your diabetes control. Hopefully we can help you a little with that, or at least point you in the right direction.

The two options which seem to be most effective for the majority of people is....
Avery low CALORIE diet like the Newcastle or Fast 800 which usually involves using meal replacement shakes to limit CALORIE intake to just 800 a day for a 12 week period. You then have to find a way to maintain that weight loss once you return to normal food and it has been shown to be most effective for people who have not been diagnosed a long time.

The thing that most people here on the forum find makes a very significant difference in improving their diabetes management is to lower their CARBOHYDRATE intake. ie the sugars and starches in their meals and drinks. Unfortunately NHS dietary advice hasn't been the best in this respect and is still lagging behind the curve as it tends to recommend cutting added sugar and swapping white carbs like bread, pasta and rice for brown but this is often not nearly enough to be effective for most people. They also continue to insist on low fat and that fruit and porridge is healthy.... which it is if you don't have diabetes, but we do!

Anyway, here on the forum, what most people find works very well for them is to use a BG meter (which it sounds like you have and should have since you are on Gliclazide, and test just before a meal and then 2 hours afterwards. The increase in BG between the first and second reading will show you how your body responded to the meal you ate and if it raised by more than 3mmols ie 8.7 before yr meal and 11.8 afterwards, then you ate more carbs than your body could effectively deal with and you need to look at reducing the portion size of the main carb components or swap to a lower carb alternative. So if you had a dinner with 2 small Yorkies and 3 roast potatoes with your meat and veg. then you would have just 1 Yorkie and 2 roasties and more veg to fill your plate up the next time and test before and after again and see how you do. Gradually you whittle it down until you tailor your meals to your body's response and it can be highly individual.
You often find that starting the testing around breakfast can make the biggest difference because firstly most of us have the same breakfast every morning which makes testing and adjusting quicker and easier, but also, we are usually more insulin resistant in the morning so if our levels get spiked high by breakfast, then they are usually high for the rest of the day. Also breakfast cereals, even the healthy ones like porridge are very high carb, so substituting an alternative lower carb breakfast can make a big difference very quickly.
Eggs are a great breakfast choice as they are low carb and full of goodness, but you need to restrict any bread toast you have with them. So maybe just one slice of a seeded loaf if you would normally have 2. Personally I enjoy full fat creamy Greek Style natural yoghurt with a few raspberries and mixed seeds and/or chopped nuts. Bacon, egg, sausage, mushrooms and a tomato is another low carb option, but look out for high meat content sausages as cheap ones contain quite a bit of rusk which is carbs.

Hopefully this has given you some ideas of where you can improve things diet wise but if you would like to post what you currently eat then we could make suggestions for swaps.

It is important to note that you are on Gliclazide which can cause hypos, so slow steady reduction of the carbs will be important with plenty of testing to ensure that you stay safe and out of hypo land!.

 

[Togfather]

When you fast, you liver releases glucose to be 'helpful' and give you energy to go and hunt/gather food like a cave dweller. Normally some of us see this every morning with what is known as Dawn Phenomenon.

It isn't single one-off BG readings you should be concerned with because they may be strongly influenced by your liver!
Instead it is the food (carbohydrates which almost immediately digest into glucose and are the only non-essential macro-nutrient) which you can and need to control. Test before and 2hrs after meals to check it doesn't spike your BG too much and if it does spike you then modify that meal next time.

It's not rocket science that if you control your carbohydrates then you control ultimately your Blood Glucose because your liver will get used to lower glucose levels and so stop dumping it!

Thank you Ian

 

[Leadinglights]

If you would like to share the sort of meals you have then people may spot things which may now be causing you a problem and suggest some alternatives.

 

[Togfather]

I have been eating too much unhealthy food, like bread, pies, potatoes, juice etc. But after watching the BBC documentary "Fixing Dad" (

), I decided to make some changes.

I just got my weekly Tesco delivery today, and I have drastically changed my order. No bread, no pies, no drinks with sugar, no crisps, no sweetes. Lactose free milk, lots of veggies, chicken, just one pack of new potatoes, brown and wild rice (to make a biryani with), sugar free jellies, diet coke, lemon juice (to make a refreshing drink with water), tinned salmon, fresh prawns, salad, sugar and low salt ketchup, low fat mayonnaise, pears, apples, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, kiwi fruit. I have just made a pot of soup, using carrot, swede, onion, leek, lentils, and chicken stock. It is a big pot, so will last me for days as a healthy alternative to snacks.

 

[Togfather]

Hi Tog and welcome

Sorry to hear you are struggling with your diabetes control. Hopefully we can help you a little with that, or at least point you in the right direction.

The two options which seem to be most effective for the majority of people is....
Avery low CALORIE diet like the Newcastle or Fast 800 which usually involves using meal replacement shakes to limit CALORIE intake to just 800 a day for a 12 week period. You then have to find a way to maintain that weight loss once you return to normal food and it has been shown to be most effective for people who have not been diagnosed a long time.

The thing that most people here on the forum find makes a very significant difference in improving their diabetes management is to lower their CARBOHYDRATE intake. ie the sugars and starches in their meals and drinks. Unfortunately NHS dietary advice hasn't been the best in this respect and is still lagging behind the curve as it tends to recommend cutting added sugar and swapping white carbs like bread, pasta and rice for brown but this is often not nearly enough to be effective for most people. They also continue to insist on low fat and that fruit and porridge is healthy.... which it is if you don't have diabetes, but we do!

Anyway, here on the forum, what most people find works very well for them is to use a BG meter (which it sounds like you have and should have since you are on Gliclazide, and test just before a meal and then 2 hours afterwards. The increase in BG between the first and second reading will show you how your body responded to the meal you ate and if it raised by more than 3mmols ie 8.7 before yr meal and 11.8 afterwards, then you ate more carbs than your body could effectively deal with and you need to look at reducing the portion size of the main carb components or swap to a lower carb alternative. So if you had a dinner with 2 small Yorkies and 3 roast potatoes with your meat and veg. then you would have just 1 Yorkie and 2 roasties and more veg to fill your plate up the next time and test before and after again and see how you do. Gradually you whittle it down until you tailor your meals to your body's response and it can be highly individual.
You often find that starting the testing around breakfast can make the biggest difference because firstly most of us have the same breakfast every morning which makes testing and adjusting quicker and easier, but also, we are usually more insulin resistant in the morning so if our levels get spiked high by breakfast, then they are usually high for the rest of the day. Also breakfast cereals, even the healthy ones like porridge are very high carb, so substituting an alternative lower carb breakfast can make a big difference very quickly.
Eggs are a great breakfast choice as they are low carb and full of goodness, but you need to restrict any bread toast you have with them. So maybe just one slice of a seeded loaf if you would normally have 2. Personally I enjoy full fat creamy Greek Style natural yoghurt with a few raspberries and mixed seeds and/or chopped nuts. Bacon, egg, sausage, mushrooms and a tomato is another low carb option, but look out for high meat content sausages as cheap ones contain quite a bit of rusk which is carbs.

Hopefully this has given you some ideas of where you can improve things diet wise but if you would like to post what you currently eat then we could make suggestions for swaps.

It is important to note that you are on Gliclazide which can cause hypos, so slow steady reduction of the carbs will be important with plenty of testing to ensure that you stay safe and out of hypo land!.

Thank you so much for that rebrascora. I really appreciate your kindness and advice. 🙂

 

[Leadinglights]

That looks like an excellent shopping list, from what you have dropped from the list I can see where your problems were.
With all those lovely ingredients you should be able to make some tasty meals.
Make sure you have more veg and meat than rice in your biryani as rice is high carb regardless of the colour.

 

[ianf0ster]

From your new food list, it sounds like you are trying to move to lower Glycemic Index carbohydrates, rather then concentrating on removing them. I'm not saying that won't help - just that for many of us it doesn't make a difference if carbohydrates are whit or brown of orange or any other colour. They tend to have similar affects.
So keep a food diary and use your BG meter to test your meals as that is the only way you will find out which foods work for you and which to reduce portion sizes or cut out completely.

Many of the foods you have bought are great - real food that your great granny would recognise. But it is a myth that salt and fat are bad for us, though too much of the wrong fats ( trans fats and vegetable oils which are actually seed oils and need industrial style processing) are not as good as traditional fats like butter, cream, cheese, eggs, fatty meat, fatty fish, olive oil etc.
I get the impression you may be trying to cut down on salt. Do you have high blood pressure? If so then Low carb is likely to fix that without either cutting salt or using any BP lowering medication.

If you reduce carbohydrates (such as fruit and below ground veg) then its a good idea to increase the calories from proteins and fats, otherwise you may feel cold, hungry, tired, less sharp mentally and your resting metabolic rate may slow , which is a bad thing because it means the body goes into starvation mode and when you then eat more normally you find that it is much easier to put all the weight back on and more! This is what conventional dieting often does, resulting in yo-yo dieting.
Now I didn't particularly want to lose weight (being a slim Type 2 diabetic, one of around 10% to 15%), so I actually added more calories from protein and fat than I cut out from carbohydrates - but I still lost 17% of my body weight!

 

[trophywench]

WHY lactose free milk? Is there actually less carbohydrate in it? Or are you lactose intolerant anyway?

 

[Togfather]

That looks like an excellent shopping list, from what you have dropped from the list I can see where your problems were.
With all those lovely ingredients you should be able to make some tasty meals.
Make sure you have more veg and meat than rice in your biryani as rice is high carb regardless of the colour.

I will. Thank you 🙂

 

[Togfather]

WHY lactose free milk? Is there actually less carbohydrate in it? Or are you lactose intolerant anyway?

It helps with my SIBO. Part of a low FODMAP diet 🙂

 

[Togfather]

From your new food list, it sounds like you are trying to move to lower Glycemic Index carbohydrates, rather then concentrating on removing them. I'm not saying that won't help - just that for many of us it doesn't make a difference if carbohydrates are whit or brown of orange or any other colour. They tend to have similar affects.
So keep a food diary and use your BG meter to test your meals as that is the only way you will find out which foods work for you and which to reduce portion sizes or cut out completely.

Many of the foods you have bought are great - real food that your great granny would recognise. But it is a myth that salt and fat are bad for us, though too much of the wrong fats ( trans fats and vegetable oils which are actually seed oils and need industrial style processing) are not as good as traditional fats like butter, cream, cheese, eggs, fatty meat, fatty fish, olive oil etc.
I get the impression you may be trying to cut down on salt. Do you have high blood pressure? If so then Low carb is likely to fix that without either cutting salt or using any BP lowering medication.

If you reduce carbohydrates (such as fruit and below ground veg) then its a good idea to increase the calories from proteins and fats, otherwise you may feel cold, hungry, tired, less sharp mentally and your resting metabolic rate may slow , which is a bad thing because it means the body goes into starvation mode and when you then eat more normally you find that it is much easier to put all the weight back on and more! This is what conventional dieting often does, resulting in yo-yo dieting.
Now I didn't particularly want to lose weight (being a slim Type 2 diabetic, one of around 10% to 15%), so I actually added more calories from protein and fat than I cut out from carbohydrates - but I still lost 17% of my body weight!

I have had 2 heart attacks and so try to keep salt and fats quite low. I also have kidney problems and a diet that puts me in Keto would not be good for me. 🙂

 

[ianf0ster]

I have had 2 heart attacks and so try to keep salt and fats quite low. I also have kidney problems and a diet that puts me in Keto would not be good for me. 🙂

Interesting that you say a Keto diet is bad for the kidneys.
Which trials have you seen that in? Just asking because U think I recall seeing that Dr Davin Unwin remembered something about protein being bad for kidneys and was concerned because he was advocating Low Carb (which means higher protein) for all his diabetic patients.
So he monitored their kidney function over several years and kidney function generally deteriorates with age.
The strange thing he published in medical journal was that in no cases did kidney function get worse than it was before - meaning it should have got worse and it at last stayed the same. Also that in some cases it actually improved.

Naturally this isn't conclusive, but I think a real world trial of around 70 patients of a UK GP is at least as trustworthy than a short term trial in rodents.

I had a triple coronary Artery Bypass, but no heart attack, so I understand your concern.
So far as fats and salt is concerned, which studies influenced you?
The 2 biggest studies in the world showed that people on a low fat diet get more heart deaths than those on higher fat diets. Also that in people over 65, they appear to live longer (so al-cause mortality) if they have higher salt intake than WHO recommendation than a lower intake. And that they live longer if they have an LDL Cholesterol in the upper quadrant rather than in the next highest and those live longer than those in the 2nd lowest quadrant , and that those in the lowest quadrant die youngest. However you don't see that reported, you have to read the actual study (because it was not the outcome they expected).
But perhaps your interpretation of the data differs from mine.

 

[Togfather]

Interesting that you say a Keto diet is bad for the kidneys.
Which trials have you seen that in? Just asking because U think I recall seeing that Dr Davin Unwin remembered something about protein being bad for kidneys and was concerned because he was advocating Low Carb (which means higher protein) for all his diabetic patients.
So he monitored their kidney function over several years and kidney function generally deteriorates with age.
The strange thing he published in medical journal was that in no cases did kidney function get worse than it was before - meaning it should have got worse and it at last stayed the same. Also that in some cases it actually improved.

Naturally this isn't conclusive, but I think a real world trial of around 70 patients of a UK GP is at least as trustworthy than a short term trial in rodents.

I had a triple coronary Artery Bypass, but no heart attack, so I understand your concern.
So far as fats and salt is concerned, which studies influenced you?
The 2 biggest studies in the world showed that people on a low fat diet get more heart deaths than those on higher fat diets. Also that in people over 65, they appear to live longer (so al-cause mortality) if they have higher salt intake than WHO recommendation than a lower intake. And that they live longer if they have an LDL Cholesterol in the upper quadrant rather than in the next highest and those live longer than those in the 2nd lowest quadrant , and that those in the lowest quadrant die youngest. However you don't see that reported, you have to read the actual study (because it was not the outcome they expected).
But perhaps your interpretation of the data differs from mine.

Not a study. I was told by my GP not to go on a Keto diet, as my kidneys are already leaking proteins, and I have a lot of faith in her. I have a catalogue of illnesses and a regime of more than 30 pills a day and I don't want to do anything to make things worse, so I will be losing weight by simply eating less (I don't need to be a scientist to know that weight will be lost if less goes in) and getting some more exercise by taking short gentle walks and using my vibrating plate.

 

[Leadinglights]

Not a study. I was told by my GP not to go on a Keto diet, as my kidneys are already leaking proteins, and I have a lot of faith in her. I have a catalogue of illnesses and a regime of more than 30 pills a day and I don't want to do anything to make things worse, so I will be losing weight by simply eating less (I don't need to be a scientist to know that weight will be lost if less goes in) and getting some more exercise by taking short gentle walks and using my vibrating plate.

No comparisons intended but I had an elderly cat with kidney issues and she had to be on a low protein diet.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I have been eating too much unhealthy food, like bread, pies, potatoes, juice etc. But after watching the BBC documentary "Fixing Dad" , I decided to make some changes.

I just got my weekly Tesco delivery today, and I have drastically changed my order. No bread, no pies, no drinks with sugar, no crisps, no sweetes. Lactose free milk, lots of veggies, chicken, just one pack of new potatoes, brown and wild rice (to make a biryani with), sugar free jellies, diet coke, lemon juice (to make a refreshing drink with water), tinned salmon, fresh prawns, salad, sugar and low salt ketchup, low fat mayonnaise, pears, apples, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, kiwi fruit. I have just made a pot of soup, using carrot, swede, onion, leek, lentils, and chicken stock. It is a big pot, so will last me for days as a healthy alternative to snacks.

Sounds great @Togfather

Let us know how it all works out 🙂

The soup sounds delicious!

 

[mediapnk]

Hello all.

I was diagnosed with type 2 about ten years ago. It has been under control for some time but lately has been getting worse. I am now on Gliclazide, Forxiga, and non insulin injections, but I still cannot get my numbers under 10, even if I fast for a day.

I am now looking at seriously losing weight. I have mobility issues and cannot without a stick and even then not very far. I am nearly 70 and live a sedentary lifestyle. I have bought one of those vibrating plates to try and help get the weight off.

I am a member of Mensa, live in Scotland, and enjoy reading, puzzles, photography, and creating artwork.

Best wishes

Tog

The soup sounds delicious! this is ture 😉