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Insulin doses for protein

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R

Radders

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
I tried an experiment today. I ate a brunch of halloumi, egg, mushrooms and tomatoes in our local greasy spoon. Absolutely delicious! I deliberately didn't add beans to see whether I could get away with taking no insulin for what I reckon was a virtually carb free meal (I know there are some in tomatoes but maybe 5g tops). Given that my lunchtime ratio is 1u to 12g I thought it best not to risk a bolus when I was starting at 5 and about to walk a fair way.
I was out shopping all afternoon which normally runs the risk of hypos, but after 2 hours I was at 10 on the meter and stubbornly stuck there despite two corrections. Finally back to normal now 5.3) after 6 hours and 1.5 units (normally 1 unit lowers me by 4-5).
Does that mean if I had taken 1.5 units before the brunch I would have been ok? Perhaps as an extended bolus as I imagine protein is slower to affect blood sugar.
I'd be interested to hear what others on insulin do with similar meals.
It looks like I will have to repeat the experiment next weekend 🙂
 
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Oh yes I think you definitely should experiment again next weekend in fact I think it will need several ummmm tests 🙄:D.

I'm still larnin about my insulin ,so I'll hang around here to see what the experts say.
 
Someone has posted recently a link to a chart that shows you how long protein takes to get converted into glucose, but I'm afraid I can't remember who, or which thread it was on. Sorry, that's not much use, except to flag up that yes, protein does get into the bloodstream in the form of glucose eventually, but not for several hours. I know I need a couple of units in the morning if I have scrambled egg, one unit to counteract the dawn phenomenon, and one for the eggs, but I discovered this by trial and error.
 
Ljc said:
Oh yes I think you definitely should experiment again next weekend in fact I think it will need several ummmm tests 🙄:D.

I'm still larnin about my insulin ,so I'll hang around here to see what the experts say.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought! ;-)
 
Robin said:
Someone has posted recently a link to a chart that shows you how long protein takes to get converted into glucose, but I'm afraid I can't remember who, or which thread it was on. Sorry, that's not much use, except to flag up that yes, protein does get into the bloodstream in the form of glucose eventually, but not for several hours. I know I need a couple of units in the morning if I have scrambled egg, one unit to counteract the dawn phenomenon, and one for the eggs, but I discovered this by trial and error.
Click to expand...
I think, from my own experience and from what I've read in the past, that protein has more effect in the absence of carbs. As a vegetarian, most of my meals are nowhere near as high in protein as this one and contain typically 25-40g carbs so I haven't needed to dose for the protein. That chart sounds interesting though, I will resort to Google and see what I can find, thank you!

The last thing I want is to start counting protein Grammes in every meal on top of carbs!
 
Radders said:
I think, from my own experience and from what I've read in the past, that protein has more effect in the absence of carbs. As a vegetarian, most of my meals are nowhere near as high in protein as this one and contain typically 25-40g carbs so I haven't needed to dose for the protein. That chart sounds interesting though, I will resort to Google and see what I can find, thank you!

The last thing I want is to start counting protein Grammes in every meal on top of carbs!
Click to expand...
This is what I found referred to in a 2013 post on this forum
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=438
If you put 'protein' into the search box at the top of this page, several threads come up which have touched on it.
Though I tend to ignore protein unless I'm having it on its own.
 
Ok. A bit of googling tells me that an egg is 13g protein, and an 80g portion of halloumi is 17g. Apparently 60% of that protein turns into glucose, so in total I got 18g glucose from my brunch. At 1:15 that would require just over a unit of insulin. Not far away from the correction dose I used, and the halloumi might have been more than a standard portion, not forgetting the tomato.

I wonder how long it will take me to be able to estimate protein Grammes the way I do carb Grammes! Maybe easier to have some beans!
 
From what I've read, It's easier on your pump, you cover the carbs and do a squarewave/extended/split on the protein. Also most seem start at about 25% of protein and build up or don't count the first 20g and bolus for the rest. I guess it's a matter of trying to see what works for you. google should bring up some tag'er groups for you to chat with. If your weight is good and you don't BG rollercoster ..have the beans 🙂
 
bilbie said:
From what I've read, It's easier on your pump, you cover the carbs and do a squarewave/extended/split on the protein. Also most seem start at about 25% of protein and build up or don't count the first 20g and bolus for the rest. I guess it's a matter of trying to see what works for you. google should bring up some tag'er groups for you to chat with. If your weight is good and you don't BG rollercoster ..have the beans 🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks Bilbie, is that counting 25% of the protein as carbs?
I am currently trying to lose the last half stone having lost one and a half since Feb, and I think you're right as the beans would also give me another of my five a day. I think I have put paid to my consultant and DSN's theory that protein doesn't affect blood sugar, although she will probably make out that it's my basal that was wrong!
 
Certainly if I'm going carb free to check out my basal, protein messes things up😱. Life is just tooo simple:D
 
It's written on the basal test forms that they send out before each appointment, which looks as if it's produced by Roche. They should know better!
 
Well some of us don't need any insulin at all for protein - even in the absence of carbs.

ISTR something in the dim and distant past thought that the ratios aren't the same for protein and fat as they are for carbs. In the absence of carbs I also STR that protein is 50% and fat is 10% - but anyway perhaps that's a reasonable place to start 'playing' with it?
 
Hi Jenny, that's interesting. The link provided for me by Bilbie said something similar. It also said that protein takes longer to affect blood sugar so I suspect I would need to use an extended bolus. Since it is so rare for me to eat significant amounts of protein with little or no carb, it might be easier just to have the beans!
 
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