I told you I'd be back

[tadhgsmum]

Following on from my previous posts, are there many diabetics who cut carbs out of their diets completely? Since my son's disasterous holiday his diet has been meat, eggs and dairy. He's even been researching a raw meat diet. I know all teenagers, not just diabetic ones, go through food fads but my concern is that he isn't getting the required vitamins etc. that we a supposed to need. Is this true or will he get everything he needs from his current food sources? He seems to think so. He's going into his 2nd year of T level health and seems pretty clued up on the human body. He's also very interested in natural health not the iatrogenic stuff they push. He's also convinced a childhood vaccine gave him diabetes.

 

[mashedupmatt]

It's not a good idea to cut out carbs completely - carbs are a vital source of energy and nutrition - you can do low-carb as a type 1 and many people choose to do this which is absolutely fine - this is what Diabetes UK suggest:


P.S. I completely understand the vaccine theory as I'm convinced mine was triggered by the mRNA COVID vaccine

 

[tadhgsmum]

It's not a good idea to cut out carbs completely - carbs are a vital source of energy and nutrition - you can do low-carb as a type 1 and many people choose to do this which is absolutely fine - this is what Diabetes UK suggest:

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P.S. I completely understand the vaccine theory as I'm convinced mine was triggered by the mRNA COVID vaccine

Thanks for that, it's what I thought. I'm watching him from afar and not offering my opinion too often as he's rather prickly about his views being challenged. I'm hoping it's a fad that he gets bored of soon xx

 

[Inka]

Control is harder without carbs @tadhgsmum You have to bolus for protein, which is a pain in the bottom as it releases glucose over a longer period and more unpredictably than carbs. Very low carbs also cause insulin resistance, which is the opposite of what your son wants! The carnivore diet is a trend (and stupid IMO). If your son’s just eating milk, eggs and dairy, he’s missing out on nutrients and fibre, and messing with his microbiome.

Of course, as you rightly say, you can’t express any disapproval because that will probably make him more determined to do it, but you could buy your own health/diet books and leave them around where he might pick them up and have a read. The recommended diet for Type 1 is the same healthy diet recommended for everyone. Eating plants and a Mediterranean type diet is particularly sensible. There are plenty of books that promote this and explain why.

 

[rebrascora]

I mostly follow a low carb way of eating and aim for about 70-90g carbs a day. I have to inject for protein release after a meal as well as inject insulin for the small amount of carbs in my meal before I eat, For me protein release starts happening about 2 hours after my meal and goes on for about 4-6 hours after that so I sometimes have to inject 3 times for a meal low carb mea, before for the carbs, 2 hours later to deal with the start of protein release and sometimes a further injection an hour or two later if levels continue to rise. There are other health benmefits from low carb eating for me but I would not be interested in going much lower than 50g carbs a day and long term I would struggle to maintain even that. I like tomatoes and onions and other veggies too much and eating just meat, eggs, cheese or fish all the time would get horribly boring.
There are carbs in dairy like milk and yoghurt of course. If I was going very low carb I would ensure I was getting plenty of fibre from supplements like chia seeds and psyllium husk which are very low carb but high fibre, particularly soluble fibre. They need to be taken with plenty of fluid so that they don't cause a blockage as they absorb water quite rapidly and swell to form a gel. I make a drink with them in flavoured water and drink it down once it has been well stirred and is starting to form a gel. Soluble fibre is I believe important for regulating cholesterol and if he is adopting a carnivore diet, that might be something important to consider.

 

[tadhgsmum]

I mostly follow a low carb way of eating and aim for about 70-90g carbs a day. I have to inject for protein release after a meal as well as inject insulin for the small amount of carbs in my meal before I eat, For me protein release starts happening about 2 hours after my meal and goes on for about 4-6 hours after that so I sometimes have to inject 3 times for a meal low carb mea, before for the carbs, 2 hours later to deal with the start of protein release and sometimes a further injection an hour or two later if levels continue to rise. There are other health benmefits from low carb eating for me but I would not be interested in going much lower than 50g carbs a day and long term I would struggle to maintain even that. I like tomatoes and onions and other veggies too much and eating just meat, eggs, cheese or fish all the time would get horribly boring.
There are carbs in dairy like milk and yoghurt of course. If I was going very low carb I would ensure I was getting plenty of fibre from supplements like chia seeds and psyllium husk which are very low carb but high fibre, particularly soluble fibre. They need to be taken with plenty of fluid so that they don't cause a blockage as they absorb water quite rapidly and swell to form a gel. I make a drink with them in flavoured water and drink it down once it has been well stirred and is starting to form a gel. Soluble fibre is I believe important for regulating cholesterol and if he is adopting a carnivore diet, that might be something important to consider.

Thank you so much for your reply. You've touched on something we have never been told in the 10y my son has been diagnosed, protein release! We have always been told to inject 20 mins before meals and correction doses for just-in-cases. The protein release makes sense. Is it with all meats (ie: fish)? Can I ask you a personal question? How do you feel knowing you may have to inject 3 times for one meal? I'm trying to understand what's going on in my son's head. He seems to be in a state of fluctuating between denial and resentment and I can't blame him. By eating the proteins his logic is he doesn't have to inject xx

 

[Inka]

@tadhgsmum If your son eats enough carbs with each meal, he won’t need to bolus for protein. You usually only have to bolus for protein in the absence of carbs. I think Gary Scheiner (Think Like A Pancreas) says most people need 30g+ of carbs per meal else they need to bolus for protein.

The truth is, there’s no easy answer to Type 1 - no magic diet, no special formula, that magically makes it easier. Very low carb is often touted as an answer, but it’s not. I’ve looked at it a number of times. One of the prime promoters takes far more insulin than me. The amount of bolus they have to have for a meal like meat and eggs is just stupid. Their basal rate is also significantly higher than mine, presumably due to insulin resistance.

As with most things, there’s no easy answer is in the middle: a normal healthy diet with reasonable amounts of carbs. This makes control as easy as it can be. My TIR for the last week is 97%. During that week, I’ve eaten cereal, bread, potatoes, pasta, biscuits, brownies, trifle, fruit plus plenty of veg, protein and healthy fats. Importantly, I haven’t had to do micro-boluses, check my blood sugar constantly, and faff about with my diabetes. I’ve been able to focus on other things.

 

[rebrascora]

In the absence of enough carbs all protein breaks down and releases glucose. I first saw it with eggs.... ie a 2 egg omelette with mushrooms, onions and cheese served with a large salad and coleslaw, but it also happens after I eat a decent portion of nuts or cheese and yes fish too. Injecting more frequently is no big deal for me. I just inject as much and as frequently as I need to keep my levels in range.

The body needs a certain amount of glucose per day, so if it can't get it from carbs, it breaks down about 40% of protein and about 10% of fat to get the glucose it needs. Fat takes much longer to break down and releases over a much longer period than even protein so you tend not to see it, plus most people don't eat a big chunk of fat, but protein like a steak or a few eggs or chicken,, you definitely start to see the protein release happening about 2 hours after meals. It doesn't cause a spike like carbs but just a slow steady rise. It can be great for people who are Type 2 as their body has more time to release insulin to deal with it, but if you are Type 1 with negligible insulin production then you have to inject for it or accept that your levels will go above range and stay there.

 

[trophywench]

In the late 1960s/early 1970s, ie when I was diagnosed 'they' had started to be convinced that exposure to certain virus(es) caused those susceptible to produce over aggressive auto antibodies, the unwanted side effect(s) of which killed off good stuff as well as bad, and because I'd had a bad bout of gastric flu (as we used to politely term any D & V back then) (Plus of course when we drank far too much alcohol and were still throwing up next morning so couldn't go to work) so that was what 'they' reckoned caused mine - but of course, nobody knows or has ever chosen to try and find out - why on earth I was susceptible. OTOH all my immediate family (Mum, Dad, only (older) Sister) have died either of or with, cancer. So OK, on balance, I'd rather have a collection of chronic conditions all in all; being born in the first place is a terminal condition for everyone, ain't it!

 

[debs248]

Lots of good advice already, I just have a couple of thoughts to add

He's unlikely to stick to carnivore diet for very long as it's quite difficult, especially once he discovers that it doesn't have the effect he wanted ie reducing insulin injections. So probably he won't get very low in any nutrients, although constipation might be an issue.

Eating offal can provide some of the nutrients usually found in plant foods, I believe this is why people in the Arctic didn't get scurvy despite a nearly carnivore diet. I love heart when I can find it, and some people eat raw liver, although I've not been brave enough to try it myself!

Hugs to both of you, parenting a teenager is hard work under any circumstances!

 

[AndBreathe]

It is possible to live a keto (often defined as less that 30gr carb daily) lifestyle, long term, although I'm not challenging that that would have challenges and learning curves involved.

Dr Ian Lake, a UK GP has been living ket for many years now. He is also a keen runner and ultra-endurance athlete.

His website and blog is here, if it tweaks any interest: https://type1keto.com/blog/

 

[Inka]

You always mention him when anyone mentions Type 1 and very low carb, but his meals look…uninspiring (I’m being polite) and as an older man, his needs would be very different. He hardly eats and doesn’t look well. Not only that, diabetes or not, it’s not a balanced diet and in many studies has been shown to potentially cause harm. Keto is a poor choice IMO:

How does the keto diet affect your heart health?​

While losing excess weight can have a positive impact on your cardiovascular health, the increased amounts of fat consumed in the keto diet can have the opposite effect.
In fact, the keto diet has been associated with an increase in LDL cholesterol levels (also known as “bad” cholesterol). High levels of LDL cholesterol can increase your risk of experiencing heart disease and strokes. With cardiovascular disease responsible for 25% of deaths in the UK, protecting your heart health is crucial.
Studies have shown that severe high cholesterol (defined as over 5mmol/L or 190mg/dL) was approximately doubled in people on a keto diet, with 10% of them experiencing severe high cholesterol. This is high compared to a figure of 5% for people following a more balanced diet with the recommended level of carbohydrates.
Research also suggested that people following the keto diet had a sixfold increased risk of developing heart disease, leading to some specialists recommending that those on the keto diet should have their cholesterol checked regularly.
Further research by cardiologists in China, which was presented at the American College of Cardiology’s Annual Scientific Session, looked at the long-term effects of a low carbohydrate diet over the course of 20 years. This revealed an association between a diet low in carbohydrates and an increased risk of atrial fibrillation (an irregular and often fast heartbeat).
Atrial fibrillation can increase your risk of stroke by up to five times, further highlighting the potential negative effects of a low-carb diet.

Source