I hope "Libre drivers" don't bear the brunt of the new mobile phone laws

[Amity Island]

Hi everyone,

I just read that the new technology (HD Cameras) has just come into force for catching anyone using (touching) a mobile phone whilst driving. £200 fine.

I hope people with diabetes who are doing the responsible thing to protect themselves and other drivers by checking their blood sugar with a freestyle libre don't end up taking the brunt for the new law (mistaken for a mobile phone).

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

 

[Robin]

Personally, I’d always stop to swipe my libre, I think it’s just as distracting and likely to take your eyes off the road as using a phone.

 

[Lilian]

So how do they know you are driving or are a passenger?

 

[nonethewiser]

Lets face it, you don't test bg whilst driving so same applies to libre, scan before setting off or find safe place to pull up to scan, you would be foolish to think using a phone would be exempt from mobile driving laws.

 

[Amity Island]

Lets face it, you don't test bg whilst driving so same applies to libre, scan before setting off or find safe place to pull up to scan, you would be foolish to think using a phone would be exempt from mobile driving laws.

Interestingly, in an interview with a Q.C in a newspaper, who was making clear what the law is, it isn't illegal to use your phone if your not using it to communicate with anyone ( reading texts, making calls), however you can use it to take video. Also it is legal to use a mobile to dial 999 in emergency, if you have no option to pull over.


Have you seen anything anywhere about scanning libre whilst driving? What the official guidance is?

 

[Amity Island]

Personally, I’d always stop to swipe my libre, I think it’s just as distracting and likely to take your eyes off the road as using a phone.

I think it's a great idea to ban people from using mobile phones whilst driving, I just hope that it gets fully enforced, it's been going on for far too long. I hope they will also start enforcing fines for people who eat, smoke, shave, apply make-up, read maps, read books, watch movies etc whilst driving too!

 

[nonethewiser]

Have you seen anything anywhere about scanning libre whilst driving? What the official guidance is?

No idea mate, what the QC says news to me, thought it was blanket ban on using mobiles while driving.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Page 4 of this guidance document
https://assets.publishing.service.g...e-to-insulin-treated-diabetes-and-driving.pdf

“If you are using a glucose monitoring system (RT-CGM or Flash GM) you must not actively use this whilst driving your vehicle. You must pull over in a safe location before checking your device.
You must stay in full control of your vehicle at all times. The police can stop you if they think you’re not in control because you’re distracted and you can be prosecuted.”

Which makes it sound like you shouldn’t glance at a CGM readout either.

 

[Amity Island]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to attach the document.

It looks to me like the “guidance” document needs revisiting. For me, I’d be checking my readings with the Libre (not up to 2 hrs before) but no more than 5 minutes before getting into the car to drive. I also think they have no understanding of how the Libre works. It can PREVENT a hypo, by looking at the trend arrows. It’s possible for someone to have taken a little too much insulin by overestimating the carbs in a meal. A downward trend arrow would give early warning that blood sugars are likely to keep dropping. If they revise the guidance to allow for checking trends whilst driving, they can prevent hypo’s occurring. The “guidance” at the moment recommends that you shouldn’t take any action until you are having a hypo, before you pull over and test (how dangerous is that!). This to me is missing an opportunity this incredible piece of technology for diabetics on insulin can give. I understand for i.d.diabetic and non-diabetic drivers, you don’t want people checking any kind of device be that, phone, sat nav, radio, changing cd’s, heating controls etc or doing make-up, shaving, watching movies, rubber necking accidents, driving whilst windows iced up, and who knows what else whilst driving, but; in context, better to take up the advantages of technology than to ban it?

 

[C&E Guy]

I always charge my phone when driving. If I'm stopped at lights, I sometimes have a look to see what the charge level is at/make sure it's plugged in properly.

So, is that not allowed either?

 

[Amity Island]

I always charge my phone when driving. If I'm stopped at lights, I sometimes have a look to see what the charge level is at/make sure it's plugged in properly.

So, is that not allowed either?

I know......Scanning a libre device (at an appropriate time) would be no more distracting than winding a window down or changing the station on a radio. The guidance at the moment is suggesting you should have a hypo rather than use the libre to prevent a hypo occuring. This cannot be good advice given the dangers a hypo could cause to a driver or other road users.

It says you must stay in control of your vehicle at all times, if that's the case, then preventing a hypo must be the best way to do that?

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I know......Scanning a libre device (at an appropriate time) would be no more distracting than winding a window down or changing the station on a radio. The guidance at the moment is suggesting you should have a hypo rather than use the libre to prevent a hypo occuring. This cannot be good advice given the dangers a hypo could cause to a driver or other road users.

It says you must stay in control of your vehicle at all times, if that's the case, then preventing a hypo must be the best way to do that?

I don’t read it that they say you should just let a hypo happen at all though. The whole approach seems to aim at keeping you above 5 the whole time, and if you suspect or sense you are veering towards a hypo you need to stop, check and resolve it (and then wait 40 minutes after you are in a safe place BG-wise).

I completely understand that checking and seeing a down arrow can help you act earlier, but I think the suggestion between the lines is that you should pull over to a safe place first rather than scooting at 40mph through a town centre while scanning, seeing an impending drop and then reaching over to rummage in the glovebox for jelly babies without stopping 🙂

tbh I always err on the side of caution, particularly with longer journeys and would always carb-up beforehand and set a tbr as the mere act of driving seems to encourage my BG to veer downwards - so I generally end journeys at the top end of my range as a minimum!

I do agree though that there’s a strange mix of dos and do nots in all this stuff, and odd things that you are still allowed to do (listen to radio / talk to people in the vehicle) seem at odds with ‘don’t do that it’s too distracting!!’ stuff about tech. Perhaps especially Libre scans.

 

[Amity Island]

I don’t read it that they say you should just let a hypo happen at all though. The whole approach seems to aim at keeping you above 5 the whole time, and if you suspect or sense you are veering towards a hypo you need to stop, check and resolve it (and then wait 40 minutes after you are in a safe place BG-wise).

I completely understand that checking and seeing a down arrow can help you act earlier, but I think the suggestion between the lines is that you should pull over to a safe place first rather than scooting at 40mph through a town centre while scanning, seeing an impending drop and then reaching over to rummage in the glovebox for jelly babies without stopping 🙂

tbh I always err on the side of caution, particularly with longer journeys and would always carb-up beforehand and set a tbr as the mere act of driving seems to encourage my BG to veer downwards - so I generally end journeys at the top end of my range as a minimum!

I do agree though that there’s a strange mix of dos and do nots in all this stuff, and odd things that you are still allowed to do (listen to radio / talk to people in the vehicle) seem at odds with ‘don’t do that it’s too distracting!!’ stuff about tech. Perhaps especially Libre scans.

Hi Mike,
Thanks very much for your reply.
The way I'd see it working would be to prevent a hypo. See a downward arrow, pull over and treat. Hypo avoided.
It currently advises "If hypoglycaemia develops while driving stop the
vehicle safely as soon as possible".
This seems dangerous advice. With the help of the libre this situation can be completely avoided.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hi Mike,
Thanks very much for your reply.
The way I'd see it working would be to prevent a hypo. See a downward arrow, pull over and treat. Hypo avoided.
It currently advises "If hypoglycaemia develops while driving stop the
vehicle safely as soon as possible".
This seems dangerous advice. With the help of the libre this situation can be completely avoided.

I understand your point of view. But I don’t think they are saying you shouldn’t scan during a journey. Just that your shouldn’t scan while driving along - which does I get is a bit frustrating given the things you *are* allowed to do - but fishing the reader out of a pocket (or from wherever you’ve put it so it doesn’t slide about), turning it on, swapping hands because you forgot which arm the sensor was on this time, pressing the button, looking at the result - DO all distract from keeping attention on the road IMO

I’m sure many Libre users (or CGM users) hangs and may continue to glance at their devices while in transit (for all the reasons you suggest), but I think the rules:

don’t drive while hypo... take steps to prevent dips even if your level looks ‘fine’... check before you set off and every so often during longer journeys... if something unexpected happens and despite your best efforts you feel you’ve drifted low during driving don’t just soldier on, stop as soon as you safely can... don’t rely on cgm if you feel low etc

are genuinely trying to keep us and other road users safe.

The fact that a non-D feeling a bit peckish and irritable before lunch might be driving at 3.8 and no one would worry two figs is just the way the land lies.

So yup. They are frustrating. But the official advice is to pull over any time you think you need to check (however often that is), and given how recently the phone stuff has been tightened up, I don’t suppose it’s going to change any time soon.

Or I guess it would be much easier if you’ve a passenger in the car to do it for you!

 

[Amity Island]

I understand your point of view. But I don’t think they are saying you shouldn’t scan during a journey. Just that your shouldn’t scan while driving along - which does I get is a bit frustrating given the things you *are* allowed to do - but fishing the reader out of a pocket (or from wherever you’ve put it so it doesn’t slide about), turning it on, swapping hands because you forgot which arm the sensor was on this time, pressing the button, looking at the result - DO all distract from keeping attention on the road IMO

I’m sure many Libre users (or CGM users) hangs and may continue to glance at their devices while in transit (for all the reasons you suggest), but I think the rules:

don’t drive while hypo... take steps to prevent dips even if your level looks ‘fine’... check before you set off and every so often during longer journeys... if something unexpected happens and despite your best efforts you feel you’ve drifted low during driving don’t just soldier on, stop as soon as you safely can... don’t rely on cgm if you feel low etc

are genuinely trying to keep us and other road users safe.

The fact that a non-D feeling a bit peckish and irritable before lunch might be driving at 3.8 and no one would worry two figs is just the way the land lies.

So yup. They are frustrating. But the official advice is to pull over any time you think you need to check (however often that is), and given how recently the phone stuff has been tightened up, I don’t suppose it’s going to change any time soon.

Or I guess it would be much easier if you’ve a passenger in the car to do it for you!

Hi Mike,

Really, this guidance would only effect those who drive longer distances, the ones who typically use the motorways. I usually pedal to work so it's not really an issue for me. For short drives a Libre scan before the drive is always enough to keep me safe for the 20-30min drive. I cannot overestimate the amazing benefit of the Libre Freestyle, it really is a life changer, it's a management system, not a spot check on blood glucose. That's why I think the guidance (not law) needs revisiting, they need to understand the way in which us diabetics who use a Libre use it to manage blood sugars across the whole day, not just at occasional finger pricks. Most highs and lows can be tempered to our benefit. This will not be an issue for any "driver" in the very near future as all new cars become driverless!😉
I think it's only a matter of time before the guidelines will be revised. It was only very recently that the Libre (instead of finger prick devices) became legally approved for checking your blood sugar for driving!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ler-for-drivers-with-insulin-treated-diabetes


🙂

 

[Bloden]

I think it's a great idea to ban people from using mobile phones whilst driving, I just hope that it gets fully enforced, it's been going on for far too long. I hope they will also start enforcing fines for people who eat, smoke, shave, apply make-up, read maps, read books, watch movies etc whilst driving too!

I thought the DVLA guidelines said “no swiping” - don’t know where I’ve got this idea from, but it’s fixed in my head! 🙂

 

[Tompy]

The goverment,DVLA & police etc will alway's find new ways to "fine" drivers on the road because it makes lots and lots of money for them and the corrupt system we have to abide by....I wouldn't mind if they fill in the countless holes that we have to drive over day in day out or replace road markings etc which cause countless accidents and insurance claims etc etc....all boils down to 1 thing.....more money from the taxpayer.....
I've just started with the libre machine and I think it's a very good piece of kit but it could do with wireless and Bluetooth tech added to it...it is 2020 isn't it ?
I'm finding that protecting the sensor on my arm is very very difficult, I'm a joiner in the construction industry and also a body builder for my sins lol......I've had to purchase Tegaderm 9cm x 10cm patches to help with the showering and "knock" factors as the adesive tape on the sensor is minute to be honest and it peels away if knocked....
My Pre sensor application consists of this....
Clean area thoroughly. ....
Shave area with new razor to remove any hair....
Clean area again with aapri facial scrub.....
Rinse thoroughly. ...
Apply alcohol wipe to area.....
Apply sensor. ....
Still starts to peel away after a while...more or less 4-5 days from application .....
Any other active ,diabetic Type 1 people out there who use the libre machine....I'm all ears

 

[mikeyB]

Just exactly what is ‘corrupt’ about the laws we have to govern driving? Been caught using your phone or speeding? Odd that it may seem to some people all these rules are draconian, since they are designed to make roads safer for everyone.

Incidentally, no matter what I do, regardless of the number of showers or night sweats,I have to tear off the sensors after the fortnight is up. I think to a degree it depends on skin type. I would advise against applying a sensor after shaving with a new razor and cleaning with a facial scrub, as both are exfoliants.

 

[Darzad]

Hi everyone,

I just read that the new technology (HD Cameras) has just come into force for catching anyone using (touching) a mobile phone whilst driving. £200 fine.

I hope people with diabetes who are doing the responsible thing to protect themselves and other drivers by checking their blood sugar with a freestyle libre don't end up taking the brunt for the new law (mistaken for a mobile phone).

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

Anyone using either a libre or dexcom sensor can get an app called xDrip+ on their phone and it can be instructed to speak your BG out loud while you drive - it's what I use and it's a great help not having to look at the phone but being constantly aware how my BG is trending.

 

[Darzad]

Correction! Sorry I switched from the libre to dexcom some time ago and I forgot to say that you need to buy a Nightrider adapter from a company called Blucon to convert the libre to operate as a bluetooth connected cgm so you can run xDrip+ as mentioned above.