Hundreds of thousands of retired Britons in EU 'may be forced to return'

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Northerner

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Hundreds of thousands of elderly Britons living in Europe may be forced to return to the UK unless the government guarantees that their healthcare will continue to be reimbursed by the NHS, campaigners for British people settled in Spain and France have warned.

The House of Commons Brexit select committee was told on Wednesday that an unintended consequence of Brexit could be a surge in immigration of British migrants both working and retired.

Groups campaigning for the rights of Britons settled in Europe told the committee that many pensioners in countries such as Spain and France would not be able to afford private health insurance if the current system was jettisoned post-Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...eturn-campaigners-pensioners-spain-healthcare

More on the story here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...u-27-angela-merkel-article-50-citizens-rights
 
Well Spain's tricky and has been for some time Alan - but as far as France is concerned - local insurance is widely available at approx. €100 - 150 per month and anyone who does their homework before retiring there (and you'd be a complete idiot if you didn't) has to build that in to their calculations to see if they can afford it - before they sell up and go.

I don't actually feel sorry for any who didn't or who haven't kept abreast of changes in local legislation wherever they've chosen to live - as Johnny Rotten said on the Country Life butte advert (paraphrased) - No - it was their retirement choice!

It's a bit the same as the Dutch lady in the News article really. She - and her husband - know very well she isn't British so isn't it perfectly reasonable that there might be restrictions placed upon her residence here, even if there weren't any when she arrived ?
 
trophywench said:
Well Spain's tricky and has been for some time Alan - but as far as France is concerned - local insurance is widely available at approx. €100 - 150 per month and anyone who does their homework before retiring there (and you'd be a complete idiot if you didn't) has to build that in to their calculations to see if they can afford it - before they sell up and go.

I don't actually feel sorry for any who didn't or who haven't kept abreast of changes in local legislation wherever they've chosen to live - as Johnny Rotten said on the Country Life butte advert (paraphrased) - No - it was their retirement choice!

It's a bit the same as the Dutch lady in the News article really. She - and her husband - know very well she isn't British so isn't it perfectly reasonable that there might be restrictions placed upon her residence here, even if there weren't any when she arrived ?
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Well, the problem for a lot of retired people (as the article suggests) is that they might have retired there for health reasons, and perhaps because property was cheap at the time - now they would find it extremely difficult to sell up and move back, given prices here, so they'd likely need support from the state to house them :(

We should have said immediately that any restrictions imposed post-Brexit will not be retrospective and this would have been a strong argument in our favour in the negotiations. The minimum income argument is (like most of government legislation of the past 6 years) crude and poorly-considered as many of the people who don't meet the requirements are people we actually need to do jobs that Brits don't want to do :(
 
I'm with TW on this one. You make your bed, you lie in it. Very few Brits went live in Spain for health reasons, or because property was cheap. It was to be on permanent holiday. They're paying the price of aiming for a supposed hedonistic lifestyle at cut price. They're all at liberty to take up citizenship of the country they live in, as many of working age are now doing.

I don't have an ounce of sympathy for folk who retired to Spain or France who are now struggling, that's just bad planning. As I have discovered, you don't retire and stay healthy forever- there has to be a plan B, and if they haven't got one, then tough.
 
I think you've all missed the point. I'm not bothered whether a load of wealthy retirees find their wealth isn't enough to keep them in the lifestyle they're accustomed to - I'm more worried about what happens if there's a mass influx of elderly people, because it's not as if our NHS isn't overstretched as it is, is it?

Anyone who thinks leaving the EU will magically improve GP waiting times is in for a hell of a shock when they find that the foreigners they accuse of clogging up the NHS have been replaced by a large number of people who will be using the system far more regularly, and that to make up the shortfall we'll have to recruit nurses and doctors from Asia and Africa.
 
mikeyB said:
I don't have an ounce of sympathy for folk who retired to Spain or France who are now struggling, that's just bad planning. As I have discovered, you don't retire and stay healthy forever- there has to be a plan B, and if they haven't got one, then tough.
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Doesn't get rid of the fact that if they are forced to come back there's likely to be extra costs to the taxpayer, out of a shrunken tax-take because we got rid of all the young, working, healthy, tax-paying EU nationals... :(
 
That's a problem across Europe, mind, an ageing population and too few youngsters, particularly in Italy. It's a problem of our times. It's one of the reasons why Scotland wants to stay in the EU. To get fit young people to work and pay tax. Just like the good old days in ancient history, but without the rape and pillaging.
 
Hopefully a sensible reciprocal agreement can be made for Brits living in EU counties and EU citizens who have built a life in the UK. I think it's a bit harsh to accuse ex-pats of not having planned for this scenario. Since 1992 we have all had (and still have) EU citizenship, and there was no reason to expect that to be stripped away. My son's Dad is French and has lived and worked here since 1986, paying taxes and NI. Why should he be kicked out of the UK or lose his entitlement to state pension and healthcare?

This issue affects millions of people. Those of you who have no problem with their rights being stripped from them should look back in history to the regime of Idi Amin.
 
Spain have been saying for some time that elderly, infirm Brits are overstretching their health resources regardless of reciprocal arrangements so I sadly I suspect they'll be keen to jettison them.
It is an issue because whether living or holidaying there, many people struggle to get private health cover. I have enough of an issue getting travel insurance!

Ok they maybe should have considered a Plan B as they jetted off to somewhere warm to ease their arthritic joints but the reciprocal arrangement was in place and people had little idea it could possibly end. Nor did they imagine a global downturn would devalue their property to the point they have negative equity.

Seeing how many elderly people are treated in this country I don't blame them for going nor can I take an 'I'm alright jack, sod you now' attitude to the position changed politics has created especially as we'll have to pick up the aftermath if they do return.
 
Whenever laws change it won't suit some people.

If motor insurance goes up another £30 a year to fund the hole left caused by injury from uninsured driving, we'd have to lump that too (bearing in mind the industry is well organised and they ALL do it at the same time) however grudgingly.

About 2% more voters decided we'd leave the EU than those who wanted to stay - be quite interesting to know if any of them are whinging LOL - but it doesn't really matter - whether we personally like it or not - we're stuck with the decision now, and NOW we're relying on the very people who all tried to persuade us one way or the other by talking bollards with very few truths - to get the best deal for OUR collective decision.

I think we (UK voters) will indeed be seen as the authors of our own misfortune, in times to come.
 
That's you English voters, Jenny. (Not you personally, it's a collective 'you')

And while I understand what you are saying, Amigo, not planning for a health downturn as you get older is so optimistic as to be foolhardy. When we moved to Mull, we originally looked at Tobermory, then thought of the hill down to the shops- most of the property is in upper Tobermory. I was perfectly mobile then, but thought about the future. What might happen? So we went for Salen, which is more or less level ground. Good plan. Now that I have severe mobility problems, I zip around the village on my electric wheelchair, which if I lived in upper Tobermory would be as much use as an armchair.
 
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trophywench said:
I think we (UK voters) will indeed be seen as the authors of our own misfortune, in times to come.
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Margin was a bit higher 52/48. I blame three things, all attributable to one person:

1. Cameron for calling it in order to try and settle internal party problems with the Tory Eurosceptics, at a time when people had been scaremongered about immigration in order to out-Enoch Farage and his mob (plus, he and mate Gideon had used the immigration problem as a scapegoat for the decline in wages and growing inequality, essentially creating the 'left behind').

2. Cameron for doing an absolutely crap job of 'renegotiating' a new deal with the EU and coming away with something so bad that it wasn't even mentioned during the campaign.

3. Cameron (and Gideon backing him up) creating an absolutely terrible fire and brimstone apocalyptic nightmare scenario should the public vote to leave - so bad that no-one believed it.

Then what happens? The vote goes Leave's way and the extent of Cameron's arrogance and cowardice is laid bare - no contingency plan, and he runs away like a scared rabbit faster than greased ferret down an oily drainpipe, so he can earn millions on the Blair-esque megabucks meaningless speech circuit.

They will now spend milions and divert thousands of people onto the Leave process and however good or bad things might be in 10 or 20 years, we have most certainly undermined the economy for the forseeable future. And completely alienated the Scots, who might yet leave the UK.

Erm, rant over! 😱
 
Northerner said:
Margin was a bit higher 52/48. I blame three things, all attributable to one person:
(Truthful Blah)
Erm, rant over! 😱
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I absolutely did NOT want to vote Alan - but then if I didn't and it went the other way, I'd still be kicking myself wouldn't I? If I voted and it went the other way - at least I'd have the consolation that it wasn't MY fault.

However - in order for anyone to expect me to vote for or against anything whether it's Home Rule for Pigs or Whether to paint or wallpaper my living room - I have to know what the LIKELY consequences might be. Not one single person ever told me that for either option.

I don't know why we can't just reject 99.9% of politicians and demand a full refund, since they were so obviously sold to us whilst being Unfit for Intended Function.
 
For all the whingeing Spain do about the impact on healthcare resources by British pensioners, these economic facts are interesting;

'It's worth noting though that in 2014/15 the UK paid out around £675 million to other EU member states to pay for healthcare treatment for UK pensioners. In reverse, the UK receives just £50 million each year for Europeans living in the UK. 3

Of the £675 million, £223,290,021 was paid into the Spanish healthcare system.3 Would it be in Spain's interest to lose this along with the millions of Euros that UK pensioners bring into the country in the form of their pensions?'
 
trophywench said:
I absolutely did NOT want to vote Alan - but then if I didn't and it went the other way, I'd still be kicking myself wouldn't I? If I voted and it went the other way - at least I'd have the consolation that it wasn't MY fault.

However - in order for anyone to expect me to vote for or against anything whether it's Home Rule for Pigs or Whether to paint or wallpaper my living room - I have to know what the LIKELY consequences might be. Not one single person ever told me that for either option.

I don't know why we can't just reject 99.9% of politicians and demand a full refund, since they were so obviously sold to us whilst being Unfit for Intended Function.
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Absolutely Jenny! 😡
 
Interesting figures, Amigo. But other European countries don't send their crumbling pensioners here to live the good life in the sun. So is it worth noting? I think it's just a demonstration of the demographic. Europeans, by and large, come here to work, and pay UK tax.

So the retired pensioners in Spain are draining our NHS of £223,290,021 in a year, are they? Well, if they all come home we could build new hospitals and employ hundreds more doctors and nurses. All with just that money. And build a few thousand new houses for them. Alas, not with swimming pools by a golf course. Tragedy, isn't it. My heart bleeds.

That is the economic impact on healthcare resources in THIS country, sod Spain.

And Jenny, if I find myself agreeing with you one more time, I'll have to go for a long lie down😉
 
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