How Much Insulin?

[Ellowyne]

Hi all,

I am really worried...When my DSN started me on my Novorapid, she gave me an amount to take with my Lunch...5 Units, and with my dinner 8 Units. She said to test and just 'work' my way up with the Insulin. I guess just trying to understand which foods affect in more ect?....Well, I am now on 7 units for lunch, I have the same lunch everyday so that is ok work gage...I think I will probably need maybe 8 Units to help my levels more.

Dinners are more complicated as they differ throughout the week....like tonight, I have been giving myself 14 Units Novo and by 2 hours I am generally down to 9. I know this still needs work but this is a good level for me!...But tonight, I gave myself 15 Units, I had potatoes, ham, roll and some beans...2 hours post Bg reading of 15!!...Gave myself my Levimer and one extra unit Novo...yet to test again.

So, my question is, is there a general carb = Insulin ratio?...and anyhow, how would you count things like sauces?...when it is in a big pot with chicken?

It's Curry with the family tommorw, and this always makes me go to appox 18!!...so, how much Insulin should I take?

This is so confusing!....My Bg have been a little better, no where near good, but better is what I am grateful for!

Love to all...Ellowyne xXx

 

[HelenM]

peoples insulin carb ratios vary a lot (and can differ during the day)
I know of people that use 1 unit to 2g carb and people that use 1u to 20 or more g carb.

What you do need to do is to find how many carbs you ate. To do this, at least until you get used to it, you need to weigh the starchy carbs.

The bread roll would be about 50% carbs. I've found rolls in the UK vary from 50g to 130g.
A little one might have 25g carbs, a big (or heavy one) 65g.
Potatoes: Plain boiled ones have about 20g carbs so a 100g portion would have 20g carb.
Beans :if green would have have about 5g carb per 100 grams other type (broad, kidney etc) could have 3s time more.


So for last nights meal:
small roll, 100g of potato and 200g of green beans (25+20+10)= 55g carbs
but
large roll, 200g potatoes and 100g of broad beans (65+40+15) =120g carbs
A person with a 1 unit to 10 carb ratio (and many need more insulin than this) might need 5.5u of insulin for the first meal and 12u for the second.

It sounds a faff, and complicated, it really isn't and gets easier every day. All you need is a small digital scale and a carb book. It is more complicated with meals in sauces, you can weigh ingredients but you have to estimate your share after cooking.

Todays meal the rice will probably be the most carb heavy part of the meal. 50g of uncooked white rice has about 40g carbohydrate, (naan bread is also very high in carbs and also fat)

One thing that really helped me at the start was to try to keep the amount of carbs similar, just as you are doing at lunchtime. Although I'll now vary this when I eat out, I tend to stick to regular amounts of carbs at home. It makes control a bit easier.

Incidently, this is a bit off the topic and just an observation so ignore it, if it isn't helpful. My dietitian, in France, would count beans other than green as starchy carb. For an evening meal she would probably suggest the starches covered a quarter of the plate:ie a roll or potatoes/rice/pasta, a very large portion of green beans ( half a plate) and possibly a fruit+ plain yoghurt for dessert.

 

[Vicsetter]

Puzzled

HI, why are you on Novarapid when you are type 2. I thought most T2s where on a basal insulin, like Levemir, as you should be producing your own insulin. NovoNordisk recon on .77units Levemir to each 1kg of body weight.
I also thought that most T2s injected basil insulin in the morning and it lasts about 18hrs so you may need another on in the evening.

What are you on and when?

 

[Ellowyne]

HI, why are you on Novarapid when you are type 2. I thought most T2s where on a basal insulin, like Levemir, as you should be producing your own insulin. NovoNordisk recon on .77units Levemir to each 1kg of body weight.
I also thought that most T2s injected basil insulin in the morning and it lasts about 18hrs so you may need another on in the evening.

What are you on and when?

I was put on Insulin because my Bg's have been very high and I am unable to take Metformin or Glicazide. I have other health complications and could not tolerate the side effects. I also could not have Byetta, because I have had suspected Pancreatus. I was first put on Levimer and then had the Novorapid added some 6 weeks agao. My Bg are getting a bit better now, but still have a long way to go!...I think you will find that there are quite a few Type 2's on Insulin...for some of us it is the only option, and after all, we are all diffrent.

I take Levimer in the evening, once...It seems to be lasting it's full time. Novorapid with my lunch and dinner.

 

[Northerner]

HI, why are you on Novarapid when you are type 2. I thought most T2s where on a basal insulin, like Levemir, as you should be producing your own insulin. NovoNordisk recon on .77units Levemir to each 1kg of body weight.
I also thought that most T2s injected basil insulin in the morning and it lasts about 18hrs so you may need another on in the evening.

What are you on and when?

That's not so Vicsetter, there are many T2s on both insulins - it depends on the individual and what kind of insulin production their pancreas is able to manage. There are no black and white rules as far as human physiology is concerned, we are incredibly complex beings 🙂 A basal insulin may be the first step after pills, but it may not be sufficient for everyone.

 

[Ellowyne]

That's not so Vicsetter, there are many T2s on both insulins - it depends on the individual and what kind of insulin production their pancreas is able to manage. There are no black and white rules as far as human physiology is concerned, we are incredibly complex beings 🙂 A basal insulin may be the first step after pills, but it may not be sufficient for everyone.

Hi Northerner, I hope you are ok!....how is your Blood pressure now?

My Bg's have come down some. Most mornings I am 9/10....I know not great, but the levels are coming down, I was waking to 12 +!...My 2 Hour post eating now range from 9/12, but then go down at 4 hour reading. It's all abit trial and error and I am learning to adjust Insulin with my evening meal. I have actually had acouple of level 8's!!!!....I get so excited when they come down to and 8/9!...feeling better now, thank you for all your help and support Northerner, I don't know what I would of done without your calming words....Thank you! 🙂

Oh, I find I am sleeping less, like, I get tired, fall asllep and then I'm up like 5/6 hours later....Not the Insulin is it? >..<

 

[Northerner]

Hi Ellowyne, so pleased to hear of the improvements you are seeing! It does take time, and I sometimes think that people are a bit misled into thinking that it will be much quicker to get good control with insulin. You are getting there! Do you still have the stomach upsets you were experiencing, or have things improved? I am delighted to hear you seeming so much more positive about things - am so pleased that you came to us for advice and that we have been able to help 🙂

As for sleep, I wonder if your improved levels and frame of mind are helping you to sleep more deeply so that you are getting fewer hours bu t better quality of sleep? You have done so well - keep up the good work, and keep asking the questions!

 

[squidge63]

So for last nights meal:
small roll, 100g of potato and 200g of green beans (25+20+10)= 55g carbs
but
large roll, 200g potatoes and 100g of broad beans (65+40+15) =120g carbs
A person with a 1 unit to 10 carb ratio (and many need more insulin than this) might need 5.5u of insulin for the first meal and 12u for the second.

I am a type 2 and use 1u to 10 carbs.. my base amount of novorapid is 22u brekkie 24u lunch and 26u dinner.. then I add up my carb as Helen has pointed out and add the amount to my base rate, so if my dinner was the 120G I would add 12u to my 26u and give myself 38u of novorapid.

 

[HelenM]

I am a type 2 and use 1u to 10 carbs.. my base amount of novorapid is 22u brekkie 24u lunch and 26u dinner.. then I add up my carb as Helen has pointed out and add the amount to my base rate, so if my dinner was the 120G I would add 12u to my 26u and give myself 38u of novorapid

Thats an interesting way of doing things, starting from a base that you always use and then adding on according to what you eat. I haven't heard of that way before ; It isn't quite the same as I was describing as your method includes that base figure.!... actually I'm sure there are lots of variations on the way we all work things out

One thing I think though and didn't really stress earlier is that it's very important to adjust thing things gradually, a couple of units at a time. Thats why I think its a good idea to keep the carbs at similar amounts until you find out how much insulin you need for that amount.

 

[squidge63]

Thats an interesting way of doing things, starting from a base that you always use and then adding on according to what you eat. I haven't heard of that way before ; It isn't quite the same as I was describing as your method includes that base figure.!... actually I'm sure there are lots of variations on the way we all work things out

One thing I think though and didn't really stress earlier is that it's very important to adjust thing things gradually, a couple of units at a time. Thats why I think its a good idea to keep the carbs at similar amounts until you find out how much insulin you need for that amount.

My Dr and DSN haven't changed my base of Novorapid for awhile now and since I have got the hang of carb counting a bit better now this way seems to work for me.. but we are all different and have different regimes.. and I totally agree with your last paragraph.