Hoping for some help

[Yangster]

Hi all,

Hope you are all well with all the craziness in the world right now.

I'm looking for some help, struggling to get anywhere with my GP. Obviously can't go and see him right now.

Bit of background, I'm male (48) not particularly overweight (29 bmi) and all my blood results come back normal (lft can be a bit high but coming back to normal now), but I've been feeling c**p on and off for the best part of 10 years. Been tested for loads of stuff but never diabetes - the issue I have is definitely food-related, eating too many carbs like white bread/rice/pasta and often feel rubbish 2 or 3 hours later, symptoms such as tension headache, weak arms, pins and needles in hands/feet, muscle aches, cuts/bruises slow to go away... lots of stuff (hence feeling like I've become a pain in the arse to the doctor). The symptoms then can last a couple of days. I've been tested for Coeliac so it's not that, magnesium, zinc, vit D, B12 all normal.

Having resorted to Doctor Google I eventually said to my doctor that could it be 'reactive hypoglycemia' as that seemed to fit most of the symptoms (although I have not had any bowel ops apart from the removal of the gall bladder and appendix, both in the last 4 years)

Anyway, so got myself a blood glucose monitor on the advice of the doc...

Here are some of the results~:

Last 7 day average 8.9 mmol/L
Last 14 day average 8.5 mmol/L
Usual reading on a morning when not having eaten (once woken up before breakfast) 6.1 mmol/L
Some readings in the 12 - 14 range.

Should I be speaking to the doctor about these? Does this sound normal?

Happy to answer any other questions and hoping someone can give me advice.

 

[Eddy Edson]

You should get an HbA1c test. That's the prime diagnostic for diabetes.

It's hard to say anything definite on the basis of a collection of fingerprick results, but:

- In some jurisdictions a random (ie regardless of time of day & how long since you ate) reading of 12+ is diagnostic for diabetes, if repeated on different occasions. But it's an iffy measure, I think, and would not normally be used instead of HbA1c.

- A "normal" fasting level is < 5.5. "Diabetic" is 7.0+. In between is "pre-diabetic" or "impaired glucose tolerance". Ditto comments.

- A non-diabetic spends a limited amount of time during the day above 7.8.

So the chances are that you have "pre-diabetes" at least and you may be actually diabetic. The distinction is just words, to some extent; in either case you'll probably want to get your BG under better control. It's also not necessarily that hard to do.

So my thinking is that you should try to get an HbA1c test. In normal times, I'd think that your BG readings would convince yr GP of that.

In the meantime, have a read around here for tips on how to get yr BG better controlled.

 

[grovesy]

Why not see if you can get a phone consultation with your Dr.

 

[Inka]

Hi @Yangster Yes, an HbA1c test would be more useful, but you might not want to have that now when so much more is going on.

Why do you think you have Reactive Hypoglycaemia? I agree with @Eddy Edson that possible ore-diabetes/diabetes seems more likely. The good news is that that will hopefully be easy to improve.

 

[Yangster]

Hi @Yangster Yes, an HbA1c test would be more useful, but you might not want to have that now when so much more is going on.

Why do you think you have Reactive Hypoglycaemia? I agree with @Eddy Edson that possible ore-diabetes/diabetes seems more likely. The good news is that that will hopefully be easy to improve.

The only reason I thought it was reactive hypoglycemia was it fitted the symptoms and at least that got the doc to tell me to go and try a finger prick test. Obviously it seems that it can't be that now that my readings are consistently above 8.

My question is could it be this that's making me feel c**p... not ill enough to go to the docs but just rubbish with low energy and muscle pain. Look, I can just about cope with it as it is, but sometimes I feel proper rubbish, exercise pretty much always makes it feel better at least for a while (and yes I know I should do more, but it's not always that easy)... used to be super fit until I gave up football/gym 10 years ago - the reason for quitting exercise was muscles were taking horrendously long to recover and hurt for a couple of days really badly, hence there may have been issues even then.

 

[Eddy Edson]

The only reason I thought it was reactive hypoglycemia was it fitted the symptoms and at least that got the doc to tell me to go and try a finger prick test. Obviously it seems that it can't be that now that my readings are consistently above 8.

My question is could it be this that's making me feel c**p... not ill enough to go to the docs but just rubbish with low energy and muscle pain. Look, I can just about cope with it as it is, but sometimes I feel proper rubbish, exercise pretty much always makes it feel better at least for a while (and yes I know I should do more, but it's not always that easy)... used to be super fit until I gave up football/gym 10 years ago - the reason for quitting exercise was muscles were taking horrendously long to recover and hurt for a couple of days really badly, hence there may have been issues even then.

Short answer: yep. Your BG certainly looks high enough to make you feel rubbish. You should do something about it, because left for long enough it can also do you damage.

 

[Inka]

The only reason I thought it was reactive hypoglycemia was it fitted the symptoms and at least that got the doc to tell me to go and try a finger prick test. Obviously it seems that it can't be that now that my readings are consistently above 8.

My question is could it be this that's making me feel c**p... not ill enough to go to the docs but just rubbish with low energy and muscle pain. Look, I can just about cope with it as it is, but sometimes I feel proper rubbish, exercise pretty much always makes it feel better at least for a while (and yes I know I should do more, but it's not always that easy)... used to be super fit until I gave up football/gym 10 years ago - the reason for quitting exercise was muscles were taking horrendously long to recover and hurt for a couple of days really badly, hence there may have been issues even then.

Yes, high blood sugar can definitely make you feel c**p. It can make you feel sleepy and lacking in energy, make you feel irritable, make you dehydrated, make you tired if you’re having to get up in the night to wee, and generally make you feel run down.

Even cutting your carbs a little and choosing whole grain ones could help. Also keep hydrated. It’s easier to make gradual changes then as you feel better you can do more. It’s obviously not so easy now but normally walking is a good form of exercise.

 

[Yangster]

I've just started couch to 5k, so hopefully can stick to that...

I don't have issues needing to wee a lot... see that is a classic symptom. I'm already working on cutting the carbs down and watching what I eat. Basically felt c**p most of the time since Christmas so making a big effort to find out what's going on now, doc says there's nothing major wrong with me but still feel c**p! (Oh and not depressed before someone says that as I've been there before a long time ago and know how that feels)

Question: How long on a better diet and exercise should it take to get the blood glucose levels down consistently, is this an overnight thing or can I expect it to take a few weeks, longer?

 

[Inka]

It won’t be an overnight thing but if you cut your carbs down consistently then you should start to see improvements in your blood sugar results over a week or two, I’d say. Feeling less c**p should also happen over a similar period of time but might take a little longer as your body gradually gets back to normal.

Be systematic in recording your food and your blood tests and you’ll soon notice an improvement. It varies depending on the individual and how bad your diet was before.

 

[Inka]

If you test 2 hours after the start of your meal you should see how your body is coping with what you’ve just eaten. You might find that some foods work better than others even if they contain the same amount of carbs eg you might tolerate pasta better than rice or vice versa.

These are the targets for people with Type 2 diabetes. They’ll give you an idea of what you’re aiming for:

• before meals: 4 to 7mmol/l
• two hours after meals: less than 8.5mmol/l

 

[Yangster]

If you test 2 hours after the start of your meal you should see how your body is coping with what you’ve just eaten. You might find that some foods work better than others even if they contain the same amount of carbs eg you might tolerate pasta better than rice or vice versa.

These are the targets for people with Type 2 diabetes. They’ll give you an idea of what you’re aiming for:

• before meals: 4 to 7mmol/l
• two hours after meals: less than 8.5mmol/l

Thanks... appreciate the help.

Today, after Tuna sandwich on wholemeal bread for lunch - 8.5mmol/L 3.5 hours after eating.

 

[Inka]

If that was two slices of bread, I’d cut it to one slice (or have something like Ryvita) and bulk up the meal with salad, tomatoes, grated carrot, chopped peppers, etc or even add something like cottage cheese to bulk it up.

Or, if you want to, eat the same tomorrow but do the test at 2 hrs to see if that was higher and dropped to 8.5 - ie were you 10 mmol at 2 hrs then dropped to 8.5 at 3.5hrs after eating.

It’s best to test around 2hrs after eating ideally.

 

[Yangster]

Flip... ok, so bread two times a day and potatoes etc is going to have to go for a while! Serious diet change needed by the looks of things. Suppose losing a stone in weight won't be that hard then!

 

[Inka]

Yep, you’re looking to reduce your carbs. How much depends on the individual, but you should get an idea of what works for you if you keep records. You might also find that you can tolerate carbs better at certain meals than others eg you might need a very low carb breakfast but be ok to have a small amount of carbs for lunch and/or evening meal.

Losing weight should help you too, so see it as a positive multi-benefit thing. Good luck 🙂

 

[trophywench]

Shedloads of carbs in many fruits. Berries usually have less, but grapes are very high in comparison with their small size, cos nobody only eats one. Also during exercise, BG can shoot up - and then plummet but could well be some time later.

So the general advice is 'test, test, test'.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Welcome to the forum @Yangster

It certainly sounds like your metabolism of carbohydrates is struggling a bit.

It might be interesting to throw in an occasional 1hr check too. Sometimes the ‘first phase’ insulin response is impaired and you can get a bit sharp ‘spike’ which begins to come down by 2hours and down further by 3-4hrs

The 2 hr check is often recommended here because there always used to be a suggested value of not higher than 8.5 by 2hrs after eating.

Having said that, at this stage the numbers themselves are less important than the difference between the ‘before’ and ‘after’ - if you can keep the meal rise down to 3 or less, your general numbers should gradually come down

 

[Yangster]

Hi All, I've been working on cutting down the carbs in general.

7d average now 7.0
14d average is 7.2
28d average 7.7

What is odd is in the mornings on waking some days it's 8 or above not having eaten for 12 hours.

The other day I had pasta and dumplings (obviously BAD) as a treat, 2 hours after 10.3 and in the morning that's when it was over 8 and felt a bit crappy!

As a rule starting to feel quite a lot better, carrying on with the running (easier now we have a prescribed 30 minute exercise slot every day).

Just wondered on what your thoughts on the numbers are, today before eating 5.4 and 2 hours later (one slice of unbuttered toast with sardines, grilled) 7.6

 

[SB2015]

Hi All, I've been working on cutting down the carbs in general.

7d average now 7.0
14d average is 7.2
28d average 7.7

What is odd is in the mornings on waking some days it's 8 or above not having eaten for 12 hours.

The other day I had pasta and dumplings (obviously BAD) as a treat, 2 hours after 10.3 and in the morning that's when it was over 8 and felt a bit crappy!

As a rule starting to feel quite a lot better, carrying on with the running (easier now we have a prescribed 30 minute exercise slot every day).

Just wondered on what your thoughts on the numbers are, today before eating 5.4 and 2 hours later (one slice of unbuttered toast with sardines, grilled) 7.6

Hi Yanster

Good to hear your update, and pleased that you are managing to get out for a little exercise each day.
Just a thought on the pasta and dumplings, that would certainly send my levels up and misbehave as the pasta seems to release that glucose over a long time.

On your meals in general you are keeping within the before and after change that @everydayupsanddowns mentioned. I know that I find the exercise after I have eaten works wonders for me to bring levels down. Are you able to time your daily exercise to be after whichever is your biggest meal. That might have an impact.

 

[trophywench]

Well the aim is to keep the 'after' within 2/3 of the 'before' reading so I reckon that looks pretty OK ! However, why unbuttered toast? Fat within anything we eat, slows the carbs down so if you eat a slice of unbuttered bread the carbs in the bread hit the metabolism quicker than if it were buttered. Hence fats in the right places, can generally be helpful!

Pasta and dumplings together? - Yuk! Not what I'd call a treat myself! ….and perhaps you won't, again now you know what it did and how it made you feel.

Pleased you're managing to keep up a bit of exercise too. Well done!

 

[Drummer]

I get either Livlife bread or the brown brick looking protein bread from Asda - I have tried a vegan protein bread, but it was higher in carbs and not very bread like, more a dry cake. The breads I do like are 4 gm of carbs a slice - not very big slices, but for high tasting fish I find them essential. Other than that I avoid high carb foods because they are just so much stodge, and I'd far rather have cauliflower with my curry than rice, roasted swede or turnip or cabbage than potatoes.