Hi

[Phoenix]

Hi all
I am 52 recently diagnosed type 2 diabetes being treated with 2x 500mg of Metformin. Just got off the phone arguing with a nurse who wants me to take statins even though my cholesterol is 4.5 and my HDL and LDL levels are normal.
So far I have changed my diet and am walking a bit more but do struggle with exercise as I am waiting for 2 operations on my leg, I am managing my BMs quite well although my fasting one can be quite random, it's normally between 7 and 8 first thing but at times it's 9+ makes no difference to what I eat as I can have exactly the same and the reading is different. The other day it was 7.1 at 2.30 am and 8.8 at 7am. My nurse seems more interested in giving me medication for cholesterol and blood pressure then listening to my concerns about my BM's

 

[KARNAK]

Hello @Phoenix welcome to the forum.

I`m afraid you have been caught in the Post Code Lottery, depends where you live
is what you get. This forum will probably save your sanity, I`ll leave it to other members
to advise you about T2 control, don`t beat yourself up if your figures are not as you wish.

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi Phoenix and welcome to the forum.
Unfortunately the attitude of your nurse is quite normal.
I too have been pressured to take statins - even though they raise my Blood Glucose! (It is said that they don't always do that.)
Depending upon your Lipid Profile breakdown, there may be absolutely no reason to take a statin.
Here are the relevant checks - taken from a video by Dr Paul Mason an Australian sports doctor in mmol/L the UK and Aus measure.

	Green Zone	Red Zone
Triglycerides	<0.8	>2.0
HDL	>1.6	<0.3
Trig/HDL ratio	<0.8	>1.8

One or more in the green zone and he says he is happy that his patient only has healthy LDL, one or more in the Red zone and he expects his patient to have Glycated and Oxidised LDL which is implicated in Coronary Artery disease. For those in between, other tests needed to confirm e.g. CAC score, LDL Particle count, etc. Note that An LDL Particle count is a relatively expensive test and that neither of those tests are done on the NHS.

There are basically 4 ways to initially get T2D into remission and 2 of those are sustainable over the long term:

1. Low Carb High(er) Fat way of eating. - Sustainable since this was how people ate before 1900. Google Dr David Unwin and Virta Health
2. Fasting either intermittent or for longer periods. - Sustainable. Google Dr Jason Fung
3. Very low Calorie diet. As in the DIRECT study. - Not sustainable.
4. Bariatric Surgery. - Must adapt eating habits or it isn't sustainable - many try to cheat it!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Welcome to the forum @Phoenix

Sorry you are frustrated with the focus on your nurse on BP and cholesterol. Type 2 diabetes does associate with elevated risk of cardio-vascular disease, and cholesterol and BP levels are both identified in clinical research as ’modifiable risk factors’

You are not the only forum member who expresses a degree of caution over statins, but it is important to recognise that they are very widely taken, and while some people clearly do have a difficult time on them many people can tolerate them well.

I don’t take statins myself (yet) and have tied myself up in knots on many occasions trying to unpick the research, claims and counterclaims, but I am forcing myself to keep an open mind, and keep reviewing my QRisk2 score with my consultant. While the absolute risk reduction is nothing like as headline grabbing as the relative reductions they always publish in media coverage, statins have a lot of big studies lined up behind them.

Your erratic waking BG levels are probably down to glucose released from your liver as part of circadian rhythm / Dawn Phenomenon.

Some find eating as soon as possible after rising helps, as may a low-ish carb snack before bed.

Many forum folks find checking BG immediately before and again 2hours after eating a very useful way to interrogate the BG effect of various different meals and types / amounts / sources of carbohydrate to gradually adjust their eating plan towards more BG friendly options.

This blog post from the helpful links page, suggests a framework you can use.

Test Review Adjust

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks for all your replies, she eventually agreed this evening that she happy for me to not take statins as my levels are all normal and my QRisk2 is just above low risk. Hopefully as my blood pressure comes down my risk will go below 10.
I have already cut my carbs down so will see how I go, it would help if she would tell me what are on range

 

[trophywench]

Nobody can tell you how much carb is not enough or too much, for the very simple reason that each individual's own body's tolerance for them, will be different! Some of us can eat a banana NP, personally I can only eat about a 2 inch bit of one if I don't want my BG to zoom upwards towards Mars. Haven't had any in the house for at least a decade until suddenly the other week, my non- diabetic husband rebelled. I don't actually recall I'd told him he couldn't have any so why he was moaning at me ???? If he just decided not to put temptation in my way well that's very good of him, but I'm not actually that mega fond of them that I'd be likely to have one. I had about 2 inches of one of them and enjoyed it. That was about 3 weeks ago and he's had 3 each week since!

We all need to be guided by our meters as to what's OK and what's too much - and just because something is too much, is it something you want to continue eating but which you could easily eat less of and still enjoy the meal - eg spuds with your roast, rice with a curry, pasta with sauce, pastry round a pie, large sliced bread ......

 

[Drummer]

With research into fats, cholesterol and suchlike suddenly taking off, it looks more and more as though the whole thing has been a bit of a disaster.
LDL cholesterol is part of the defence against infection system - who would ever have thought that it wasn't something toxic with HCPs insisting that it had to be lowered even for those with lower than average levels and some indication that those with higher LDL were living longer.
I found that Atorvastatin damaged my memory and ability to function day to day - I thought I was going senile and was very depressed. I contemplated suicide after only a few weeks. Luckily the Metformin I was taking at the same time made me really ill as well so I threw the tablets in the bin.

 

[trophywench]

I try not to comment about statins these days because I had exactly the same adverse reaction as Drummer and thought I was getting early onset senile dementia same as me mother - whereas lots of folk say they take them with no side effects. Plus my GP burst out laughing when I told him, how I managed to not slap his face for being so insulting I haven't worked out yet.

 

[Blue flash]

That's interesting about about atorvastatin, my short term memory shocking, always get my words mixed up and general numbness to head.

I have been on Fluoxetine for far too long as well tho always put it down to that part of my mind.

Got medical review Tuesday might ask about coming off.

Good news Hba1c down to 40 🙂 really just came on here to celebrate

 

[Phoenix]

Nobody can tell you how much carb is not enough or too much, for the very simple reason that each individual's own body's tolerance for them, will be different! Some of us can eat a banana NP, personally I can only eat about a 2 inch bit of one if I don't want my BG to zoom upwards towards Mars. Haven't had any in the house for at least a decade until suddenly the other week, my non- diabetic husband rebelled. I don't actually recall I'd told him he couldn't have any so why he was moaning at me ???? If he just decided not to put temptation in my way well that's very good of him, but I'm not actually that mega fond of them that I'd be likely to have one. I had about 2 inches of one of them and enjoyed it. That was about 3 weeks ago and he's had 3 each week since!

We all need to be guided by our meters as to what's OK and what's too much - and just because something is too much, is it something you want to continue eating but which you could easily eat less of and still enjoy the meal - eg spuds with your roast, rice with a curry, pasta with sauce, pastry round a pie, large sliced bread ......

Hi
Sorry I meant what my BM's should be

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hi
Sorry I meant what my BM's should be

For people with T2 the advice used to be 4-7 before meals and no higher than 8.5 by 2hrs after eating.

 

[Drummer]

That's interesting about about atorvastatin, my short term memory shocking, always get my words mixed up and general numbness to head.
I have been on Fluoxetine for far too long as well tho always put it down to that part of my mind.
Got medical review Tuesday might ask about coming off.
Good news Hba1c down to 40 🙂 really just came on here to celebrate

It has taken me some years to really feel that I have recovered - it was just lucky that some time before the diagnosis and prescription, what with me getting on a bit, my daughter asked me to write down all the songs I sing/have sung over my lifetime. I had got to over 300 so when I suddenly found I could not recall them from memory I had them to hand - though a couple of them I have lost the tunes to them. I used to be able to 'collect' songs and tunes if I heard them once, but now I have to go over and over to get them back. Happily now I am remembering songs and writing them down for posterity. I have even been learning to read music. Oddly, some things I can only remember remembering - sort of the opposite of deja vue - there might be a name for it.
Atorvastatin can pass from the blood into the brain, and the brain is cholesterol and other lipids, our nervous system is encased in lipids to electrically insulate it. I just can't see how it is a good thing to be disrupting the thing which makes us who we are.

 

[Ditto]

Hello all and welcome. 🙂 I refused statins.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I’ve moved @JMyrtle’s question about cholesterol into a thread of it’s own to avoid confusing @Phoenix’s welcome thread 🙂

Help with Cholesterol Numbers?

Help, I need advice! Had my annual review last week and my blood glucose is down to 39 but! Our rural surgery has recently been taken over (bought) by a group practice from one of the coastal towns so we now have " smart townie doctors" taking our appointments. My cholesterol has gone up from...

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