Hi, I've just joined!

[susan-k-s]

Hi everyone - I think I had mistakenly joined another site previously (the diabetes.co.uk site) not realising that it was a commercial organisation heavily leaning towards the keto agenda. This site seems a bit more balanced - is that true? Don't get me wrong, I like a good keto recipe, but I'm leaning more towards low/moderate carbs rather than full-on keto, which is taking it a step too far for me! I'm more of a wholefood/ everything in moderation sort of person. Having said that, I have cut out all added sugar, refined carbs and ultra-processed foods and recently started watching my carbs in general as well.
I haven't been diagnosed with diabetes - I'm currently waiting for my test results - but I knew there was something up with my blood glucose when I had some recurring hypoglyceamic episodes following carb-heavy meals. I bought myself one of those finger prick devices, but I'm not at all convinced that they are accurate - I was getting quite different readings taken within seconds of each other! So now I just tend to go by how I feel rather than stress about the readings. If I feel fine 2-3 hours after a meal, I know my glucose spike was not that big - if I feel extremely hungry or shaky, I know I overdid the carbs. I'm reading the book Glucose Revolution at the moment, which has some really good advice about how we could avoid the glucose spikes and flatten the curve. One of these days I might invest in a CGM to gain more insight into how my body reacts to certain foods.
I'm looking forward to being part of your community in the hopes of developing my knowledge and understanding of diabetes, even if I turn out to be not diabetic. I think this is a condition we should all be aware of and try to prevent or reverse if possible!

 

[harbottle]

I think you mean hyperglycaemic, not hypo. That’s low blood sugar.

This site is more balanced. I do low carb, mainly avoiding large portions of things with carbs. I do still eat potato though, in modest amounts.

Glucose meters are pretty good given they operate in non-lab conditions and are subject to environmental factors. Some models are more accurate than others.

What sort of readings are you seeing? Fasting blood glucose is a good indication of diabetes.

 

[susan-k-s]

I think you mean hyperglycaemic, not hypo. That’s low blood sugar.

This site is more balanced. I do low carb, mainly avoiding large portions of things with carbs. I do still eat potato though, in modest amounts.

Glucose meters are pretty good given they operate in non-lab conditions and are subject to environmental factors. Some models are more accurate than others.

What sort of readings are you seeing? Fasting blood glucose is a good indication of diabetes.

I did mean hypo - low blood sugar - as a result of a high spike earlier. It could be reactive hypoglycaemia - a couple of times I almost passed out, feeling really shaky and sweaty. I always feel better after I eat something, but it puts me on a roller coaster. I'm getting my blood sugar checked as part of my regular CVD check-up as I also have high blood pressure - though I'm convinced that the two are somehow connected. My finger prick readings were not too bad, but sometimes inconsistent. My fasting levels were usually under 6, but it seems for a healthy person they should be under 5.5 - and they were sometimes over that first thing in the morning. A few of them were 6.2-6.3 but then they went down to 5.2 after breakfast, so the FBG was higher than the PBG. Go figure!

 

[Leadinglights]

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/blood-sugar-levels.105009/#post-1241573

This gives the levels you would be expecting from your monitor.
The 2 hour post meal tests may help you eliminate any foods and meals which are too high carb for your boy to tolerate.
One theory is that high carb foods can lead to a vicious circle of over production of insulin which drops levels low which makes people feel hungry or hypo which then leads to them eating more carbs so the cycle starts over again.
Wait for your test results and them you have something to work with to plan a way forward with your diet.
Although monitors are pretty good there will be some variation but that will usually be within the allowable %.
Unless you have reason to be suspicious of a reading then stick with doing just one.
@Docb did some extensive tests on different fingers and worked out the range allowable for different readings which was illuminating and suggests one shouldn't get hung up about the number after the decimal point.

 

[Lucyr]

I did mean hypo - low blood sugar - as a result of a high spike earlier.

You mention having a meter and being able to test these at the time. What readings were you getting? If under 3.5 and happening after a high carb meal then yes could be reactive hypos

 

[harbottle]

I did mean hypo - low blood sugar - as a result of a high spike earlier. It could be reactive hypoglycaemia - a couple of times I almost passed out, feeling really shaky and sweaty. I always feel better after I eat something, but it puts me on a roller coaster. I'm getting my blood sugar checked as part of my regular CVD check-up as I also have high blood pressure - though I'm convinced that the two are somehow connected. My finger prick readings were not too bad, but sometimes inconsistent. My fasting levels were usually under 6, but it seems for a healthy person they should be under 5.5 - and they were sometimes over that first thing in the morning. A few of them were 6.2-6.3 but then they went down to 5.2 after breakfast, so the FBG was higher than the PBG. Go figure!

How do you know it was a hypo? Did you test your blood?

Falling to 5.2 after breakfast sounds normal to me.
Being over 6 is also normal in the mornings, as BG can rise overnight, and even non-diabetics may see a small rise, especially if doing low carb/keto, and various hormones can cause insulin resistance. And the meter readings aren't accurate anyway, so it might be less than that or greater by a certain degree.

RH has a number of known causes, none of which are related to T2 diabetes, and many other things can cause similar symptoms. Get a free trial of a libre sensor and see what happens during the day. That's pretty much how they check for RH.

 

[susan-k-s]

You mention having a meter and being able to test these at the time. What readings were you getting? If under 3.5 and happening after a high carb meal then yes could be reactive hypos

I wasn't able to test it at the time as it always happened on the way home from work, 2-3 hours after I had eaten a sandwich or similar high carb meal. I got into the habit of carrying some snacks to be safe but I haven't had to eat them for a while now, since I started watching my carbs - which admittedly is a lot more difficult at work. Interestingly, it never happens on the way to work doing the same walk in a fasted state - so I'm pretty sure it's reactive hypo. My symptoms have improved, in fact disappeared, since I'm more careful with what I eat and when. But I know my glucose metabolism is dysregulated, possibly as a result of insulin resistance followed by a delayed insulin reaction? This is all self-diagnosed by the way. My GP was not very helpful - she told me she would be the same way after a high carb lunch, but I don't think she realised just how close I have come to collapsing. She told me it was because I'm quite slim but my BMI is normal around 20, so that can not be the reason. I lost about 2 stone in weight around this time last year when I cut out sugar and refined carbs, but it's only recently, since January, that I started seriously watching my carbs intake, realising that just because something is healthy, it can still have a detrimental effect on my blood sugar, like oats, fruit, wholegrain bread etc - all the things they tell you to eat lots of - so I've cut down on those and eat more seeds, nuts, veggies, salads, legumes, olive oil and protein instead. I'm semi-vegetarian but I do eat chicken, eggs and fish and also dairy. I'm just hoping that with these changes my body will learn to metabolise glucose properly again, but even if I'm not diabetic, I will never go back to eating the way I used to when I was younger. I'm 54 next week.

 

[susan-k-s]

How do you know it was a hypo? Did you test your blood?

Falling to 5.2 after breakfast sounds normal to me.
Being over 6 is also normal in the mornings, as BG can rise overnight, and even non-diabetics may see a small rise, especially if doing low carb/keto, and various hormones can cause insulin resistance. And the meter readings aren't accurate anyway, so it might be less than that or greater by a certain degree.

RH has a number of known causes, none of which are related to T2 diabetes, and many other things can cause similar symptoms. Get a free trial of a libre sensor and see what happens during the day. That's pretty much how they check for RH.

I don't think I can get a free CGM trial without a T2 diagnoses. I would be willing to pay for one myself, however, what puts me off are the reviews that say people couldn't fit the CGM properly or that it fell off after a couple of days. If it was guaranteed to work, I wouldn't hesitate getting one, but I can't afford to waste that sort of money for nothing. Once it gets activated, that's it - you can't just put it back when it falls off.

Of course, I can't be sure that it is RH - however, all the symptoms suggest that it is - and as soon as I eat something, I feel fine again. What else could it be?

 

[susan-k-s]

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/blood-sugar-levels.105009/#post-1241573

This gives the levels you would be expecting from your monitor.
The 2 hour post meal tests may help you eliminate any foods and meals which are too high carb for your boy to tolerate.
One theory is that high carb foods can lead to a vicious circle of over production of insulin which drops levels low which makes people feel hungry or hypo which then leads to them eating more carbs so the cycle starts over again.
Wait for your test results and them you have something to work with to plan a way forward with your diet.
Although monitors are pretty good there will be some variation but that will usually be within the allowable %.
Unless you have reason to be suspicious of a reading then stick with doing just one.
@Docb did some extensive tests on different fingers and worked out the range allowable for different readings which was illuminating and suggests one shouldn't get hung up about the number after the decimal point.

Thanks for the link - there's conflicting information online about the optimal values. Many sources say that levels higher than 5.5 FBG suggest pre-diabetes, or at least a compromised glucose metabolism. I'm probably not diabetic, but I know there's something going on. Sadly, our health care system is geared towards treatment of the symptoms rather than prevention and finding the root cause, which is why I took matters into my own hands and educate myself as much as I can. Even if it turns out that I'm diabetic or pre-diabetic, I can hit the road running as I'm already eating as if I was diabetic, so it won't be a huge shock. I'm hoping, whatever it is, I can reverse it with a healthy diet.

 

[SB2015]

it fell off after a couple of days. If it was guaranteed to work, I wouldn't hesitate getting one, but I can't afford to waste that sort of money for nothing. Once it gets activated, that's it - you can't just put it back when it falls

I found the Libre stayed put unless I hit it against the door frame!!! To be secure, I still out extra tape over my sensor, especially if I go swimming. This certainly overcame that problem.

Apart from that I found that the data I got from sensors was invaluable to me in adjusting my insulin doses, and I am aware that people with T2 have found sensors useful to identify if certain foods caused issues with glucose levels, and also it helped them to adjust portion sizes.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

bought myself one of those finger prick devices, but I'm not at all convinced that they are accurate - I was getting quite different readings taken within seconds of each other!

Some variation is normal (and expected).

Blood glucose changes over time, what's in a specific drop of blood might well be a little different to another drop (especially when you mix in some interstitial fluid), and test strips and glucose meters vary. The accuracy is intended to be "good enough", so (I think) for blood plasma in the normal range (so between 3.5-5.6, I think) within 0.83mmol/L of the true value 99% of the time, and within 15% for 95% of the time. (I may have those slightly wrong; for some reason I can't find what the BS specification actually says.)

Anyway, don't rely on a reading like 5.3 as really meaning 5.3. It's more like 5ish. And if you test a finger of your other hand and that's 5.7 that's not meaningfully different.

 

[susan-k-s]

Anyway, don't rely on a reading like 5.3 as really meaning 5.3. It's more like 5ish. And if you test a finger of your other hand and that's 5.7 that's not meaningfully different.

As an example, one morning my FBG was 6.8 - and I thought that can't be right, so I did another strip immediately from the same finger, which came back as 6.0. I think that's a significant difference - one would firmly indicate pre-diabetes, the other still normal (depending on which classifications you believe). That's when I gave up on testing. I might do it again just to use up my test strips but I've lost my faith in their accuracy. It may have been just a bad batch though as my previous batch was more consistent.

On a side note: I got back my results today - my A1C was 35, so not within the diabetic or even prediabetic range but I'll definitely continue with my moderate carb/wholefood lifestyle. Maybe I'll just allow myself the occasional extra piece of fruit or a small bowl of porridge, which I really miss. That's as far as my guilty pleasures go LOL!

 

[susan-k-s]

I found the Libre stayed put unless I hit it against the door frame!!! To be secure, I still out extra tape over my sensor, especially if I go swimming. This certainly overcame that problem.

Apart from that I found that the data I got from sensors was invaluable to me in adjusting my insulin doses, and I am aware that people with T2 have found sensors useful to identify if certain foods caused issues with glucose levels, and also it helped them to adjust portion sizes.

Thanks, that's good to know! Was it hard to fit? And was it painful at all? I know it can be very useful, even to people without diabetes - it lets you see what's going on inside your body!

 

[Lucyr]

I don't think I can get a free CGM trial without a T2 diagnoses. I would be willing to pay for one myself, however, what puts me off are the reviews that say people couldn't fit the CGM properly or that it fell off after a couple of days. If it was guaranteed to work, I wouldn't hesitate getting one, but I can't afford to waste that sort of money for nothing. Once it gets activated, that's it - you can't just put it back when it falls off.

Of course, I can't be sure that it is RH - however, all the symptoms suggest that it is - and as soon as I eat something, I feel fine again. What else could it be?

They’re easy to fit and would be replaced free if it fell off. But even then if the sensor said you were hypo you would have to fingerprick to confirm it. Unless you fingerprick these ‘hypos’ and find out what your blood glucose level is at the time, then you don’t know you’re having any.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

As an example, one morning my FBG was 6.8 - and I thought that can't be right, so I did another strip immediately from the same finger, which came back as 6.0. I think that's a significant difference - one would firmly indicate pre-diabetes, the other still normal (depending on which classifications you believe).

I think we just have to accept that test strips aren't accurate enough to make that determination. If the gold standard measurement (taking blood from your arm and testing it in a lab) were 6.4, then getting 6.0 or 6.8 would be fine, I think. (That's not to say that taking the average of multiple tests is the way to get higher accuracy.)

On a side note: I got back my results today - my A1C was 35

Which is comfortably in the normal range.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Thanks, that's good to know! Was it hard to fit? And was it painful at all?

It's not hard: they've designed it carefully to be straightforward. The pain is usually roughly the same as a finger prick test (which is a bit surprising given the size of the needle (which you don't normally see) but I guess fingers are more sensitive than upper arms).