Hi, I've had type 1 for 40 years & just had gall bladder removal and a tia, any advice would be great thanks

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Sparkles15597

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Hi, does anyone know why I've had to lower my background insulin (tresiba) by 10 units. I've had a cholecystectomy and while in the recovery ward I had a tia. This was nearly four weeks ago, I have a lot of other conditions and I'm feeling very alone and miserable, anyone else been through this?
 
Could it be to do with digestion @Sparkles15597 ? That you’re not fully digesting foods at the moment? I don’t know, but I just wanted to comment to say that I’m sorry you’re dealing with these problems and I hope you feel a little better soon x
 
Hi. I am also really sorry to hear that you have had such a traumatic time with your health but wishing you a full and speedy recovery.

I wonder if the gall bladder has been causing inflammation in the liver and that has resulted in increased glucose release in the same way as other infections in the body elevate our BG levels and require more insulin, so now that the gall bladder has been removed, the inflammation is subsiding and less basal insulin (Tresiba) is needed. I know when I am ill I need to increase my basal doses quite significantly, so it would make sense that the opposite is the case when the infection/irritation is removed and the body is healing.
 
That's a really good point (and one I really should have worked out myself! ), I'm just a bit sick of it all and feeling very sorry for myself 🙄, thanks so much x
 
Hello @Sparkles15597,

You've been managing your BG for way longer than I have. But I aspire to optimise my Tresiba to give me a steady and horizontal graph through a normal (ie uninterrupted) night. When that graph trends to steadily rise or fall for 3 or more successive nights then I know I need to adjust my Tresiba accordingly. You can at least verify the guidance to lower your dose. As a matter of curiosity by how much in percentage terms is that drop of 10 units?

The other thing is that after your TIA have you been put onto a blood thinning medication such as Lansoprazole or indeed started a new med after your cholecystectomy? Could blood thinners lead to a presumption of possibly needing less basal?

As a slight digression I had a TIA on 15 March; and on 16th April I had what initially seemed to be another, with identical symptoms. I responded as I'd been told, rang 111 and the preliminary further diagnosis in my nearest Hospital Response and Assessment Unit (an extension of A&E) was that I'd had a 2nd TIA. Consequently I was referred back to the Acute Stroke Unit (ASU) that diagnosed me 1st time around. The next working day I quickly got a phone call from the ASU Consultant who originally saw me; he sought to confirm that I'd had identical symptoms and then reversed the 2nd diagnosis! I had not had a 2nd TIA, I did not need extra blood thinners and I could resume driving straightaway. (Great relief!). I'd had what he termed an "echo" TIA and in his experience repeat TIAs never exhibited identical symptoms and usually gave symptoms on the other side of one's body. He also felt confident in making his corrective diagnosis because I'd just had several days of continuous increased BG and the previous nights blood test had shown that I had heightened C-Reactive Protein (CRP) readings. Although no explanation was being offered for this period of elevated BG he felt my "echo" was caused by a neurological reaction, reflecting my one month old "blob" of visible brain damage (from the MRI) as a sort of response and "flag" to my brain that something was not right.

Anyway you are fully entitled to feel "sorry for yourself" and this Forum is a great place to be in such circumstances. When I was much younger a mentor said to me that 'sometimes it's not what you know but who you know' when a problem needs resolving. I do hope that sharing your question here provides that little bit of reassurance.
 
Lansoprazole isn't a blood thinner - it prevents heartburn, indigestion, acid reflux.

Clopidogrel, apixaban and their ilk are blood thinners.
 
Lansoprazole isn't a blood thinner - it prevents heartburn, indigestion, acid reflux.

Clopidogrel, apixaban and their ilk are blood thinners.
Yes, my error - fingers lost contact with my brain. I am now on Clopidogrel (was also on aspirin as an extra thinner) and my heartburn and digestive med of Omneprazole was changed to Lansoprazole because it, apparently, clashes with the Clopidogrel. Thanks.
 
I never had heartburn that bad until I took aspirin and when the hosp changed that to cloppy dog it was far worse - real acid reflux as soon as I lay down in bed most nights if I dared even look at a chip (which are normally oven chips chez moi anyway) so orf to the GP went I and got Lansoprazole, cos they told me the same, that Omeprozole and it clashed.
 
I'm not going to be much help with your original question, but I have had some recent abdominal pains that might indicate some sort of gallbladder difficulty.
My pains are just under my ribs on my right side that radiate to my back. My running mate, who is a GP, said that anatomically there's not much else there. Even less for me as I have had a lot of bowel removed also.
I have also had some strange blood test results which indicate an inflammatory response to something-or-other. I have needed more insulin, usually a good indication I am not well.
I wonder if my diet might need reconsideration. I eat a full fat everything and as a reward after a run I like to have a croissant with berries and mascarpone.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
 
Hello @Sparkles15597,

You've been managing your BG for way longer than I have. But I aspire to optimise my Tresiba to give me a steady and horizontal graph through a normal (ie uninterrupted) night. When that graph trends to steadily rise or fall for 3 or more successive nights then I know I need to adjust my Tresiba accordingly. You can at least verify the guidance to lower your dose. As a matter of curiosity by how much in percentage terms is that drop of 10 units?

The other thing is that after your TIA have you been put onto a blood thinning medication such as Lansoprazole or indeed started a new med after your cholecystectomy? Could blood thinners lead to a presumption of possibly needing less basal?

As a slight digression I had a TIA on 15 March; and on 16th April I had what initially seemed to be another, with identical symptoms. I responded as I'd been told, rang 111 and the preliminary further diagnosis in my nearest Hospital Response and Assessment Unit (an extension of A&E) was that I'd had a 2nd TIA. Consequently I was referred back to the Acute Stroke Unit (ASU) that diagnosed me 1st time around. The next working day I quickly got a phone call from the ASU Consultant who originally saw me; he sought to confirm that I'd had identical symptoms and then reversed the 2nd diagnosis! I had not had a 2nd TIA, I did not need extra blood thinners and I could resume driving straightaway. (Great relief!). I'd had what he termed an "echo" TIA and in his experience repeat TIAs never exhibited identical symptoms and usually gave symptoms on the other side of one's body. He also felt confident in making his corrective diagnosis because I'd just had several days of continuous increased BG and the previous nights blood test had shown that I had heightened C-Reactive Protein (CRP) readings. Although no explanation was being offered for this period of elevated BG he felt my "echo" was caused by a neurological reaction, reflecting my one month old "blob" of visible brain damage (from the MRI) as a sort of response and "flag" to my brain that something was not right.

Anyway you are fully entitled to feel "sorry for yourself" and this Forum is a great place to be in such circumstances. When I was much younger a mentor said to me that 'sometimes it's not what you know but who you know' when a problem needs resolving. I do hope that sharing your question here provides that little bit of reassurance.
Hi, thanks for your reply. I'm sorry you too have had a tia. I was initially put on 300mg of dispersible aspirin due to the op but now I'm on clopidogrel 75mg and had to swap from omeprazole to lansoprazole. I'm waiting to speak to stroke team next Thursday, after having completed a 72 hour ecg, I think one of my BP meds needs increasing. I do have orthostatic hypotension so it's difficult but I'm not happy with readings of around 155/90 (sitting) as I also have ckd stage 3 and proliferative diabetic retinopathy and they're impacted by high bg and BP. I've had graves disease and total thyroidectomy and my latest tsh levels were abnormal (high), I need a more upto date blood test as my potassium was slightly above normal. The doctors were expecting hospital to return bloods and hospital are expecting docs. Pre-op I was on 70 units tresiba and 2:1 ratio for fiasp also 1g metformin twice daily. I'm also on psychotropic meds, increased rosuvastatin 20mg. In total I have a nomad box from chemist every week with over 50 tablets/day. I also have peripheral neuropathy, chronic pain, radiculopathy, severe depression and anxiety, emotionally unstable personality disorder and complex ptsd. I don't know if I'm also going through menopause as had hysterectomy in2018. But I think incorrect thyroxine levels can give similar symptoms. It's hard to guess which is affecting what and at my docs they only deal with one issue per phone appt. I want to thank everyone who commented on my initial message, it meant a lot. It's so refreshing to hear from people who truly appreciate our conditions. I will give update when I get one in the hopes that it might help someone else, take care x
 
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Goodness, you really do have a lot on your plate!! The difficulty with the NHS now is that each specialist only looks at their issue with your body and there is very little join up between them to come up with an overall plan to treat the whole body rather than each "bit" but of course the body is interconnected, so tweaking one thing can upset another. I really hope you can find someone who can help you achieve the best balance of medication and diet and lifestyle, but more frequently these days, that person seems to need to be ourselves. Thankfully through forums such as this, we can share experiences and that can help us to become our own experts and hopefully enable us to join the dots a little better that the tunnel vision of each specialist.
 
I'm not going to be much help with your original question, but I have had some recent abdominal pains that might indicate some sort of gallbladder difficulty.
My pains are just under my ribs on my right side that radiate to my back. My running mate, who is a GP, said that anatomically there's not much else there. Even less for me as I have had a lot of bowel removed also.
I have also had some strange blood test results which indicate an inflammatory response to something-or-other. I have needed more insulin, usually a good indication I am not well.
I wonder if my diet might need reconsideration. I eat a full fat everything and as a reward after a run I like to have a croissant with berries and mascarpone.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Hi, I would get checked at docs re gall bladder. It could be biliary colic and/or gallstones. I'm not preaching but full fat everything as you say, will still do its damage even if you do run to compensate. Could you start with semi skimmed, half fat cheese etc and then reduce to low fat when you're ready. You do really well running, I'm not physically able to do that as I rarely leave house and have to rely on a stick or my walking frame. I need support worker with me to go out and can only afford 3 hours/week. I'm hoping to increase to 5 hours so that I can adopt a rescue dog as I live next to a small park. I'm obese and 90% of what I eat is low fat but it's the lack of exercise that is really damaging. 20 years ago I was 8 stones and after a traumatic event I put 3 stones on and the year after I put another 2 and a half stones on, this was due to increased psychotropic meds, not going out and comfort eating. If I ate full fat everything I would be twice the size! It's easy to put it on and feels almost impossible to lose. It's just a heads up as I was 8st and under for 33 years and never thought I'd be fat but it's obviously your choice, take care.
 
I would definitely recommend a dog!
Many thanks for your comprehensive advice.
I already have repeat blood test and scan booked. I don't know if it's the diabetes or the cancer that's made the medical fraternity a bit better with their response.
Particular thanks for dietary advice. I have never seen a dietician. I only weigh a little over 8 stone, have a BMI of 20.5 and can still run 27 miles a week. But I can't help feeling that my diet needs a bit of a rethink after 57 years.
However, so far, I don't have any diabetic complications. It feels like luck!
 
Hello again @Sparkles15597,

Yes, you really have got a full array of challenges - many of which almost overwhelm me in thinking how I would manage those.

My present medical state started from Pancreatic Cancer in Oct 2019 and my Oncologist has been the only Health Care Professional (out of 6 Consultants) to claim that she has the lead overview on my overall condition. We've never met and now only have 6 monthly phone calls - so the overview is pretty shallow if I'm truthful; but the claim was made with what felt like sincerity. So I ought to be grateful there is somone claiming to care apart from me.

Is there any merit in emailing your GP and ask who your GP thinks has the overview for yourself @Sparkles15597? You could quote the conundrum about "The doctors were expecting hospital to return bloods and hospital are expecting docs" or try to establish if part of your current condition is simply due to too many meds and potentially too much contradiction within the cocktail?

Regarding your early question about reducing Tresiba by 10 units (I presume from 70 units to 60?) - do you have CGM such as Libre to help you with the management of your very longstanding T1 diagnosis? At first I sort of assumed you must have CGM, but I know (from personal experience with a longstanding T1 cousin) that sometiimes this huge aid to BG management doesn't get into the vocabulary of longstanding T1s. If you do have CGM do your daily graphs over the last 7 days demonstrate that your 70 Tresiba units are clearly too much? I can't help returning to a question in my mind are you managing your T1 with a good understanding of how this particular basal insulin is best employed?

In asking this question I can see that the blatant long lasting profile of Tresiba's 40+ hrs can be a huge help to your current overall medley of ailments. With limited mobility Tresiba could provide that extra bit of BG stability long term. Equally the reverse could be true, with other ailments possibly behaving irregularly and your basal might be better if used on a more flexible basis. CGM would at least help you to get a better sense of cause and effect.

My perspective is that keeping my BG in a decent or at least acceptable range is a pre-requisite for reducing my vulnerability to further TIAs - or anything else.

70, or even 60 units of Tresiba implies a high degree of insulin resistance. I'm acutely aware that we are all different and thus one size does not fit all. But even 60 units once daily feels a lot and the principle of "Small is Beautiful" works for medications. Even though it originated in economic theory in the 1950s, it feels valid today across so many large and difficult things that need managing. Injecting 60 units at one shot creates an environment for insulin dosing to go wrong - too shallow, or into sites that are already damaged, etc, etc. If that basal insulin is consequently underperforming then BG management becomes a lottery.

I ought to ask what bolus insulin do you take and in what sort of dose sizes?

From all of this I should make sure you understand I am in no way medically qualified. I was a chartered Civil and Structural Engineer and I try to deal with my health somewhat dispassionately and as if it was an Engineering problem. In practice it all seems more like an Art rather than a Science, sometimes juggling different variables in a slightly random fashion hoping the treatments don't clash. But then some individual colour pallettes seem great to some people and a clash to others!
 
@Sparkles15597, I've just seen your post in a differentthread and now know you do have Libre. ( Sorry the adhesive is such a problem for you and hope you can find a solution.)
 
Hello again @Sparkles15597,

Yes, you really have got a full array of challenges - many of which almost overwhelm me in thinking how I would manage those.

My present medical state started from Pancreatic Cancer in Oct 2019 and my Oncologist has been the only Health Care Professional (out of 6 Consultants) to claim that she has the lead overview on my overall condition. We've never met and now only have 6 monthly phone calls - so the overview is pretty shallow if I'm truthful; but the claim was made with what felt like sincerity. So I ought to be grateful there is somone claiming to care apart from me.

Is there any merit in emailing your GP and ask who your GP thinks has the overview for yourself @Sparkles15597? You could quote the conundrum about "The doctors were expecting hospital to return bloods and hospital are expecting docs" or try to establish if part of your current condition is simply due to too many meds and potentially too much contradiction within the cocktail?

Regarding your early question about reducing Tresiba by 10 units (I presume from 70 units to 60?) - do you have CGM such as Libre to help you with the management of your very longstanding T1 diagnosis? At first I sort of assumed you must have CGM, but I know (from personal experience with a longstanding T1 cousin) that sometiimes this huge aid to BG management doesn't get into the vocabulary of longstanding T1s. If you do have CGM do your daily graphs over the last 7 days demonstrate that your 70 Tresiba units are clearly too much? I can't help returning to a question in my mind are you managing your T1 with a good understanding of how this particular basal insulin is best employed?

In asking this question I can see that the blatant long lasting profile of Tresiba's 40+ hrs can be a huge help to your current overall medley of ailments. With limited mobility Tresiba could provide that extra bit of BG stability long term. Equally the reverse could be true, with other ailments possibly behaving irregularly and your basal might be better if used on a more flexible basis. CGM would at least help you to get a better sense of cause and effect.

My perspective is that keeping my BG in a decent or at least acceptable range is a pre-requisite for reducing my vulnerability to further TIAs - or anything else.

70, or even 60 units of Tresiba implies a high degree of insulin resistance. I'm acutely aware that we are all different and thus one size does not fit all. But even 60 units once daily feels a lot and the principle of "Small is Beautiful" works for medications. Even though it originated in economic theory in the 1950s, it feels valid today across so many large and difficult things that need managing. Injecting 60 units at one shot creates an environment for insulin dosing to go wrong - too shallow, or into sites that are already damaged, etc, etc. If that basal insulin is consequently underperforming then BG management becomes a lottery.

I ought to ask what bolus insulin do you take and in what sort of dose sizes?

From all of this I should make sure you understand I am in no way medically qualified. I was a chartered Civil and Structural Engineer and I try to deal with my health somewhat dispassionately and as if it was an Engineering problem. In practice it all seems more like an Art rather than a Science, sometimes juggling different variables in a slightly random fashion hoping the treatments don't clash. But then some individual colour pallettes seem great to some people and a clash to others!
Hi, thanks for your in depth reply. I love applying logic to everyday situations, like yourself, but I agree some experts versions of 'logic' differ to what I consider to be very obvious conclusions as they only deal with their area of expertise and don't factor comorbidities into the equation! Every time I'm admitted to hospital I have to plead my case to various nurses, pharmacists that yes that's what I take every day and I didn't prescribe my meds myself, other medical professionals did, obviously. It's worse with the psychotropic meds as I take venlafaxine, mirtazipine, diazepam, zopiclone and I am often told I shouldn't be taking them together (even though I've been on them 20 years) due to serotonin syndrome. That's why individual advice from people who are living with their conditions have very useful knowledge and understanding. When I get a new disease/condition I always take consultant's information, specialist nurses and then find as much additional info from reputable sources that I can and I always ask questions. I have to say that in the very little time I have been using this site I have received so much helpful and constructive advice, empathy is also something I have found which is really heart warming and I do actually feel less alone. Possibly due to lack of resources, knowledge, time or just the attitude experts have their information can be very sterile and insular. I'm very grateful to you and everyone else who has responded directly to me and to the people posting on this forum as a whole. Take care x
 
@Sparkles15597, I've just seen your post in a differentthread and now know you do have Libre. ( Sorry the adhesive is such a problem for you and hope you can find a solution.)
Hi, I waffled on and didn't answer you properly! I rotate my injection sites for Tresiba, sometimes I have 58/60 units split into two doses and sometimes I have one. I have quite a lot of areas on my stomach that I can't inject as I had a rectus fascial sling for my bladder after the hysterectomy and I have symmetrical circles where all the fat was scraped off to attach the sling. I did ask the surgeon before the op if it would affect my ability to inject my insulin or the absorption of it, he said he didn't know and had not been asked that before. Also, at the moment I have scars from the laporascopic cholecystectomy so injecting is difficult plus I have fiasp to inject and rotate those areas. I do feel for lumps before injecting and try to avoid my natural 'go to' area.
 
Great replies @Sparkles15597. (And I was just asking again when your 2nd reply gave the extra answer!)

I'm still curious (and care) are you still OK with your D management, despite the glaring difficulty you must have with that task? How long have you been using Tresiba? It's only been marketed since 2016 and that was probably initially not in UK. What basal preceded your Tresiba? You will no doubt have seen many other insulins and progression of theories, as well as tech, over the last 40 years. Do your recent Libre graphs reveal that recent Tresiba doses are giving you a decent period of stability during the overnight fasting periods? Or perhaps the Libre adhesive issue has overtaken matters just now.

My pretty short time having to manage my D has confirmed to my satisfaction that getting one's basal as right as possible needs to precede getting the bolus process right. A recent consult with my excellent Endo also showed me that the Professional understanding is thin about just how different Tresiba is to other basals. That recent conversation only reinforced how widespread the misunderstanding is; in 2022 the pre-op instructions for quite big surgery were written (and accredited to that Hospital's Endo dep't) yet blatantly inappropriate for Tresiba users. I had to politely spell out why I shouldn't change my basal prep for that Surgery before they admitted I was correct (but 'cos it was written protocol the Surgical Ward Admission's Nurse was trying to turn me away because I hadn't obeyed the written protocol and the duty anaesthetist had to be called to verify I was correct). All resolved, but wholly unnecessary hassle on the morning of the op.
 
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