Hi all I am new to this I have just been told that my bloods were at 19 and that I need to go on insulin by the Diabetic nurse to which I refused as I

[Inka]

Hi the diabetic nurse and everything I have read about insulin says it does give you thrush also the diabetic nurse told me it does . I have been given Ozempic only took my first dose yesterday i am on a no carb diet now so I will see how it goes I have a check up in three months to see how I am doing .

People without diabetes make insulin so everyone would be walking around with thrush if that were true. Uncontrolled blood sugar gives you thrush. Insulin can help you control your blood sugar and thus actually reduce your risk of getting thrush.

I’d be interested in links to what you’ve read about insulin giving you thrush...

It’s good that you’ve got a check up booked so you can see how things are going.

 

[DIAMONDH]

People without diabetes make insulin so everyone would be walking around with thrush if that were true. Uncontrolled blood sugar gives you thrush. Insulin can help you control your blood sugar and thus actually reduce your risk of getting thrush.

I’d be interested in links to what you’ve read about insulin giving you thrush...

It’s good that you’ve got a check up booked so you can see how things are going.

Hi I got that information from my diabetic nurse not a link

 

[Inka]

Hi I got that information from my diabetic nurse not a link

You said “everything I have read about insulin says it does give you thrush”. I wondered what exactly you were reading then?

Jardiance - a medication for Type 2 diabetes can cause thrush. Could you have misunderstood the nurse or they have muddled up what they were explaining? Jardiance isn’t insulin.

Insulin either comes from pigs or is genetically engineered to be as close as possible to human insulin. None of the patient info leaflets of any of the insulins I’ve used give thrush as a side effect. Certain insulins might not suit a person, but insulin itself doesn’t cause thrush.

 

[rebrascora]

Not sure if you are aware but bananas are one of the highest carb fruits you can get, so they are not a good choice. Most of us have a few (half a dozen or so) berries like rasps, strawberries, blueberries, blackberries or gooseberries or blackcurrants... or rhubarb stewed with a little artificial sweetener as a fruit portion and not generally every day. If you are going to have a banana, have half one day and the other half the next and have it with whipped cream or creamy Greek Natural yoghurt.
It sounds like you might be eating too much protein which can cause other problems, so do be aware of that.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that cabbage and lettuce are not good choices. They are actually some of the best veggies to eat because they are very low carb, along with cauliflower and courgette and aubergine and mushrooms, so fill your plate up with those foods.

 

[DIAMONDH]

You said “everything I have read about insulin says it does give you thrush”. I wondered what exactly you were reading then?

Jardiance - a medication for Type 2 diabetes can cause thrush. Could you have misunderstood the nurse or they have muddled up what they were explaining? Jardiance isn’t insulin.

Insulin either comes from pigs or is genetically engineered to be as close as possible to human insulin. None of the patient info leaflets of any of the insulins I’ve used give thrush as a side effect. Certain insulins might not suit a person, but insulin itself doesn’t cause thrush.

no she said the only thing with insulin is it will give you thrush

 

[DIAMONDH]

Not sure if you are aware but bananas are one of the highest carb fruits you can get, so they are not a good choice. Most of us have a few (half a dozen or so) berries like rasps, strawberries, blueberries, blackberries or gooseberries or blackcurrants... or rhubarb stewed with a little artificial sweetener as a fruit portion and not generally every day. If you are going to have a banana, have half one day and the other half the next and have it with whipped cream or creamy Greek Natural yoghurt.
It sounds like you might be eating too much protein which can cause other problems, so do be aware of that.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that cabbage and lettuce are not good choices. They are actually some of the best veggies to eat because they are very low carb, along with cauliflower and courgette and aubergine and mushrooms, so fill your plate up with those foods.

again i said i have a banana for breakfast the nurse told me that was good I guess I will go see a dietrician as i am getting conflicting messages and I don't know what to eat .

 

[leonS]

I have never read anything that said insulin causes thrush. If you have then it was just wrong. High BG makes it more likely that you will get thrush as it is a fungal infection and thrives on sugar, At your level there will be sugar in the urine. So you are at more risk not on insulin. If the SDN told you this then ****!!!, but are you sure that she did not say without insulin you may get thrush.

Using insulin does not make you type 1. If you were type 2 then that is what you are. The type does not change ever, The diagnosis of 1 or 2 is not simple and it is just possible to have got it wrong in the first place.

High BG will kill off certain cells! Not unimportant ones. Nerve cells, cells in the arteries and in the eye, these do not recover when the BG is lowered. You risk serious damage by allowing BG to remain high.

Unsulin does nor make you fat either. Food does that. Insulin may increase the appitite. but it is possible to control weight

 

[Inka]

no she said the only thing with insulin is it will give you thrush

Then all I can think is she was commenting on your particular circumstances as there are lots of people taking insulin and definitely not getting thrush from it. It’s uncontrolled blood sugar that causes thrush in people with diabetes. Insulin, used appropriately, controls the blood sugar and so stops people getting thrush.

 

[leonS]

Suggest that she goes for further training! Nonsense os nonsense not matter who said it!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Welcome to the forum @DIAMONDH

Insulin certainly does have a reputation for enabling weight gain, amd it is a hormone that permits fat storage with any ‘left over’ glucose not needed for fuel... but it is certainly not automatic, and in general terms many insulin users tend to find that if they take in appropriate amoints of energy for their needs and take the insulin needed to process the carbs involved, then their weight remains stable.

I have been taking insulin for 30 years (all manner of types) and have never seen any weight gain caused by it.

I have seen weight gain caused by eating extra carbs/calories and reduced activity levels though!

I do know some people who have found that one insulin seemed to cause weight gain for them while their food intake was unchanged, but that seems to be quite rare.

I genuinely believe that the weight gain reputation is largely down to the fact that adding extra insulin allows people to efficiently process more carbohydrates and transport the energy into cells, rather than excreting it in urine as excess ‘overspill’ glucose.

Like others I have never heard of any other medic, Dr or nurse suggesting a link between *insulin* and thrush... only ever between high blood glucose and thrush.

 

[trophywench]

So this qualified diabetic nurse works full time every single day of her working life in a diabetes clinic (usually found within hospitals) does she? Because that is a pre-requisite for any nurse wishing to take the extra 2 year University degree course to get the qualification, the same as it is for other nursing specialities eg Mental Health or Paediatrics etc etc.

Nurses within GP surgeries don't usually have specialist Degrees, they are normally qualified nurses OK, but need to see people with different conditions for annual checks etc. Same nurse at our GPs does my annual diabetes MOT and my asthma MOT. Doesn't call herself 'Specialist' or 'Expert' with anything, because she'd be lying if she did!

Do you honestly believe that women such as myself, Type 1 for 48 years and using insulin every single day of my life since, all have raging thrush and just put up with it? We don't. We used to just before we were first diagnosed, and quite probably have done sometimes since when we'd let our blood glucose get out of control by eating too much c**p, but NEVER in the general course of our lives.

 

[rebrascora]

Are you sure your nurse is a Diabetic Specialist Nurse (who is based at a hospital clinic) or just one of your GP practice nurses who is trained to manage the diabetics within the practice.... there is a world of difference!

Your posts seem to highlight a lot of inconsistencies..... for instance....
You said you were following a "No carb" diet, but then you tell us you are eating a banana, which is a high carb fruit, for breakfast.
The nurse wanted you to start on insulin but you refused, so you don't follow his/her medical advice but you follow his/her dietary advice about bananas.... which is not their speciality... and to be honest even the specialist diabetic dieticians within the NHS generally offer "old hat" advice to us diabetics and might well recommend eating a banana for breakfast or porridge when both can be problematical for diabetics.

My advice to you would be to get a Blood Glucose meter and test before eating each meal and 2 hours after. That will tell you what your body will tolerate food wise far better than a nurse or dietician who can only give you general and usually out of date advice or us members of the forum for that matter. Most of us here on the forum follow this process to tailor our diet to suit our particular diabetes and it can vary quite surprisingly from one individual to another as to what type of foods and how much they can eat without sending their BG levels rocketing. It may be that you are missing out on a couple of potatoes unnecessarily particularly new potatoes which are lower in carbs than mature potatoes, so worth taking some time to keep a food diary and record portion sizes and glucose readings for each meal so that you can see when things need tweeking. This is the tried and tested advice from members of this forum and many people have pushed their diabetes into remission and come off medication following this system.

If you are interested, we can give you more info on how to go about testing. If you are self funding, BG meters are relatively inexpensive to purchase @ about £15 for a basic model and £8 for a pot of 50 test strips if you buy the SD Gluco Navii or the Spirit Healthcare Tee2. Other meters have significantly more expensive test strips and since you get through a lot of testing in the first few months, then that is where the costs add up, so buying a meter which has the cheapest test strips makes financial sense.

 

[DIAMONDH]

Welcome to the forum @DIAMONDH

Insulin certainly does have a reputation for enabling weight gain, amd it is a hormone that permits fat storage with any ‘left over’ glucose not needed for fuel... but it is certainly not automatic, and in general terms many insulin users tend to find that if they take in appropriate amoints of energy for their needs and take the insulin needed to process the carbs involved, then their weight remains stable.

I have been taking insulin for 30 years (all manner of types) and have never seen any weight gain caused by it.

I have seen weight gain caused by eating extra carbs/calories and reduced activity levels though!

I do know some people who have found that one insulin seemed to cause weight gain for them while their food intake was unchanged, but that seems to be quite rare.

I genuinely believe that the weight gain reputation is largely down to the fact that adding extra insulin allows people to efficiently process more carbohydrates and transport the energy into cells, rather than excreting it in urine as excess ‘overspill’ glucose.

Like others I have never heard of any other medic, Dr or nurse suggesting a link between *insulin* and thrush... only ever between high blood glucose and thrush.

I have only been doing this a week and i am struggling knowing what to eat not eating carbs but now being told eating too much protein I can't win what is a good diet and what is the best sweet to have as a treat ?

 

[Becka]

sorry but just googled it she is correct

The page you quoted says "When you take insulin, glucose is able to enter your cells, and glucose levels in your blood drop. This is the desired treatment goal. But if you take in more calories than you need to maintain a healthy weight — given your level of activity — your cells will get more glucose than they need. Glucose that your cells don't use accumulates as fat.[/quote]

i.e. it is not insulin which causes weight gain, it is over-eating. To say insulin causes weight gain is to say not having diabetes causes weight gain.

Weight loss is a [dangerous] symptom of having low or no natural insulin production. The kidneys cannot cope with the excess glucose so cause increased urination, which loses calories from the body. Whilst the lack of glucose in the cells causes the body to burn fat and muscle for energy.

So you will put weight back on when taking insulin because your body returns to function normally. This gives the appearance of it causing weight gain, and this is what the Mayo Clinic are clumsily referring to. But it is not the insulin causing weight gain, it is the effect of it preventing weight loss.

If you are type 2 and do not need insulin treatment then it is because your body is producing insulin naturally. So, as others have said, the warning of weight gain will still apply to you because you are still taking insulin, it is only the source that is different.

And to quote that page again: "The good news is that it is possible to maintain your weight while taking insulin."

 

[rebrascora]

It depends on the portion size as to whether you actually ARE eating too much protein, but as I said, plenty of leafy green veg or the other foods I mentioned to bulk out your plate with the meat/eggs/fish and a Blood Glucose meter will tell you if what you are eating is doing the trick with lowering your BG levels or whether you need to decrease OR can possibly increase portions of certain foods. We are all different which is why a BG meter is so useful. It shows you how your body reacts to food. No one diet will suit everyone. A BG meter enables you to tailor your current diet to manage your levels.

 

[Sharron1]

Hi. Insulin does not give you thrush - in fact it helps to avoid thrush as it avoids sugar in the urine. Your nurse was talking nonsense on that. Insulin does not cause weight gain. It enables the body to metabolise carbs properly and if you eat too many you will gain weight just as a non-diabetic would without insulin.

I am reading all these posts with great interest. I was also told by the GP that insulin does cause weight gain. However, reading your post I now understand why that
could happen and that GP did not tell me the full story. Thank you.

 

[trophywench]

Thing is, if you are Type 2 and you have Insulin Resistance, your own pancreas is then forced to produce extra insulin to deal with the food you eat, since the IR means that the 'normal' amount of insulin won't be enough - hence the quicker you can get proper treatment and diet and exercise to reduce your blood glucose back down to normal levels, the better. The fastest way of reducing it is to use insulin, which could easily be just temporarily whilst your body gets over whatever's caused the blood glucose to be too high and may not be forever. (I know people that's happened to, after mega infections and a few weeks treatment in hospital on heavy duty steroids - insulin jabs were the only thing that touched their too high blood glucose for over 6 months before the doses were too much and the could gradually drop them until they no longer needed insulin) The main thing is it kept them alive and kicking whilst their body and mind recovered.

@DIAMONDH - I saw you asked someone else how long it took to lose the weight he mentioned after having Ozempic. They said they were about to have their 2nd dose of it and as it's a weekly injection to me that means he'd lost it in a week!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

For anyone following the ’DVLA rules‘ discussion, it has been moved to its own thread here: https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/board...-and-dvla-notification-inconsistencies.88005/

 

[DaveB]

I have only been doing this a week and i am struggling knowing what to eat not eating carbs but now being told eating too much protein I can't win what is a good diet and what is the best sweet to have as a treat ?

Hi again. Don't worry about too much protein. For a few it might be a problem but for most of eat as much as you like within reason. As you may have gathered, many GPs and DNs haven't a clue about diabetes but won't admit it. I would also avoid NHS dieticians like the plague. There will be good ones but not enough; most will just push out the bad PHE mantra. I'm lucky as my surgery DN has had special diabetes training and has never said anything stupid to me. For sweet/dessert, fresh non-tropical fruit is good in particular berries. It's difficult to avoid carbs in fruit pies etc but my wife uses artificial sweeteners instead of sugar. You can have normal fat yogurt. This can either be plain Greek or I have normal fat no sugar added fruit yogurt.