Hello

[LordElpus]

Just joined. I am a 68 yr old retired Police Inspector who recently survived a heart attack on the 26th August.
None of the recognised 'risk factors' for heart attacks applied to me yet I still had one, caused by a blood clot.
I have my own theory as to why it happened but this is not the place or time to discuss that.

I am here because after my heart attack I was prescribed various medications which I was told were given to 'everyone' who has had a heart attack. I was not happy with this as the medications prescribed are designed to deal with specific issues, both of which I do not suffer from. I have argued my corner and one of those medications were withdrawn, the other I have refused to take as I don't have the condition that the medication is designed to deal with despite the pressure to continue. In addition the noted side effects of the medications is an increase in blood sugar levels and after a recent blood test was told I am 'pre diabetic'.

I have been regularly monitoring my own blood sugar level using a finger prick tester for over 8 years and during that time it has hardly changed so I am concerned I will be pressured to accept diabetes medication which may be permanent but not actually necessary.

Looking forward to finding out the facts.

 

[Inka]

Welcome @LordElpus 🙂 Sorry to hear about your heart attack. I hope you’re on the road to recovery.

Regarding the pre-diabetes, you may be able to make some dietary changes that will improve things so medication isn’t inevitable.

 

[ianf0ster]

I had a triple bypass (but fortunately didn't have a heart attack despite all 3 arteries being over 95% blocked).
I'd already been told to eat low fat, lots of whole grains and lots of fruit and veg (I was eating around 7 rather than the '5 A Day). So the doctors prescribed blood pressure tablets (even though my Blood pressure was low enough to be a concern in hospital and had never been high throughout my life, and they told me to double down on the 'healthy eating' even though doing it for over 10 yrs had only seen me need the triple bypass and had increased my weight from very slim to the mid range of normal.
I followed the advice an in 2yrs I was now diagnosed as Type 2 Diabetic and was actually 2lbs overweight!
I was given the same advice (that was obviously not working) again.
This time I searched for proven methods of reversing T2D and found 2 (Newcastle very low calorie diet and Dr David Unwin's Low Carb 'way of eating'. I presented those to me GP and asked which one he advised me to try. He said tha Newcastle Diet, so since his advice had been consistently wrong I choose Low Carb.
I lost weight along with reducing Blood Glucose and was BMI 22 and in the normal HbA1C range in about 6 months.
Low carb also has the effect of normalising High Blood Pressure in most people, so it can fix 3 linked conditions at one stroke.

Although my Total Cholesterol is much higher than it was at T2D diagnosis, the levels of HDL and Triglycerides are much better as is the ratio of Triglycerides to HDL. So based just on cholesterol my heart disease risk has reduced even though I'm eating more fat. Of course my risk has also reduce due to my Blood Glucose levels being normal again. Somewhat strangely my GP seems to accept this and is no longer insistent that I need statins even though before my T2D diagnosis he said that no level of LDL was too low, also that no intake of salt was too low, both of which I know to be false since some of each is vital for life!

 

[LordElpus]

Welcome @LordElpus 🙂 Sorry to hear about your heart attack. I hope you’re on the road to recovery.

Regarding the pre-diabetes, you may be able to make some dietary changes that will improve things so medication isn’t inevitable.

Thank you for your concern. I am fully recovered thankfully and have been advised that I need to make no changes to my lifestyle.

I would be interested to know what dietary changes you suggest that will improve things so medication isn't inevitable. However, my diet contains virtually no sugar and very few complex carbohydrates and no animal products.

 

[LordElpus]

I had a triple bypass (but fortunately didn't have a heart attack despite all 3 arteries being over 95% blocked).
I'd already been told to eat low fat, lots of whole grains and lots of fruit and veg (I was eating around 7 rather than the '5 A Day). So the doctors prescribed blood pressure tablets (even though my Blood pressure was low enough to be a concern in hospital and had never been high throughout my life, and they told me to double down on the 'healthy eating' even though doing it for over 10 yrs had only seen me need the triple bypass and had increased my weight from very slim to the mid range of normal.
I followed the advice an in 2yrs I was now diagnosed as Type 2 Diabetic and was actually 2lbs overweight!
I was given the same advice (that was obviously not working) again.
This time I searched for proven methods of reversing T2D and found 2 (Newcastle very low calorie diet and Dr David Unwin's Low Carb 'way of eating'. I presented those to me GP and asked which one he advised me to try. He said tha Newcastle Diet, so since his advice had been consistently wrong I choose Low Carb.
I lost weight along with reducing Blood Glucose and was BMI 22 and in the normal HbA1C range in about 6 months.
Low carb also has the effect of normalising High Blood Pressure in most people, so it can fix 3 linked conditions at one stroke.

Although my Total Cholesterol is much higher than it was at T2D diagnosis, the levels of HDL and Triglycerides are much better as is the ratio of Triglycerides to HDL. So based just on cholesterol my heart disease risk has reduced even though I'm eating more fat. Of course my risk has also reduce due to my Blood Glucose levels being normal again. Somewhat strangely my GP seems to accept this and is no longer insistent that I need statins even though before my T2D diagnosis he said that no level of LDL was too low, also that no intake of salt was too low, both of which I know to be false since some of each is vital for life!

Thank you for sharing this. I am aware that a 'low fat diet' has been recommended for many years but more recently has been shown to be ineffective as it's the refined carbohydrates that are the 'bad guys'. I have therefore restricted my carbs as well as being vegetarian for some years and now fully vegan. I have lost over 3 stone in weight and am almost at my 'ideal' weight and I have been fortunate that despite being overweight my cholesterol figure has always hovered around 4. At the hospital it was 4.0 and my recent HbA1C blood test gave a figure of 3.2, hence my reason for declining to take statins. I was also prescribed Bisoprolol despite having my blood pressure fully under control for many years. This caused my BP and pulse to drop dramatically causing me to be light headed. Fortunately the Dr I spoke to agreed with me and I stopped that medication immediately.
As for my blood sugar, first thing in the morning it is usually between 6.2 and 6.9 with the occasional spike especially if I have had a late evening meal or late snack. I tend not to eat anything after 7pm these days. But on checking my finger prick results back to 2008 when my lifestyle was considerably different and my diet was too, I was very much a bread, biscuits and pasta eater, my blood sugar was still only 6.2. I know that is above the 'norm' but I do wonder if that is my 'normal'? After all to get a 'normal' average there must be considerable variation taken into account. I would love to get my figure down to 5 or below, but I am not sure what else I can do to achieve this.

 

[janw]

Hi and welcome.
I guess you just need to lower your carb intake. It might be worth googling Vegan keto recipes as they won't contain any animal products. We usually find high carbs comes from bread, pasta, rice, veggies that grow under the ground, lentils and other pulses, pastry, cake etc, and it is best to eat berries in regards to fruit, though a little of apple and a 100% nut butter (peanut, almond or cashew) are okay now and again. I am fairly new to type 2 but am losing weight on diet and exercise only, hoping to reverse back to prediabetes before too long.

 

[Drummer]

@LordElpus I am very sensitive to carbs and eat only a maximum of 40 gm of carbs a day to keep my blood glucose under control, which it does quite well, but even so my Hba1c is usually 42, and it stuck there even when I reduced from 50 to 40 gm daily some years ago now, thinking that would drop it down into the 30s - it didn't. A year later and 3650 gm of carb less than the year before - 42.
I'm a bit stymied on what to advise a vegan to eat - as 40 gm of carbs represents far too few calories to support life.
My blood glucose is almost always under 7 after eating, often under 6mmol/l.

 

[LordElpus]

Hi and welcome.
I guess you just need to lower your carb intake. It might be worth googling Vegan keto recipes as they won't contain any animal products. We usually find high carbs comes from bread, pasta, rice, veggies that grow under the ground, lentils and other pulses, pastry, cake etc, and it is best to eat berries in regards to fruit, though a little of apple and a 100% nut butter (peanut, almond or cashew) are okay now and again. I am fairly new to type 2 but am losing weight on diet and exercise only, hoping to reverse back to prediabetes before too long.

Thanks for the welcome, it looks like I have come to the right place for answers!

I used to eat a lot of carbs but haven't done so for quite some time now, well over 2 years. I usually restrict myself to one portion of carbs per day and rarely eat bread, pastry, cakes, or biscuits. I eat a lot of vegetables, nuts and seeds and as much fruit as I can, usually oranges, and our nut butters are the 100% kind, although now I rarely eat bread so I don't use them very often. I am a keen gardener and I walk my dogs twice a day for nearly an hour each time. I also ride my bike when I can. I have always been pretty active and have never led a sedentary life. Maybe my blood sugar levels are 'normal' for me as I'm not sure what else I can do to lower them.

 

[Drummer]

@LordElpus - if you are eating lots of vegetables and as much fruit as you can, that is surely more than one helping of carbs a day, isn't it?

 

[trophywench]

Loads of carb in oranges and bananas + any other tropical fruit. Some use orange juice as a hypo cure because it's high and fast acting carb. All legumes contain plenty of carb, as do especially parsnips and remember carrots are naturally sweet to the extent you can make carrot cake with virtually no actual sugar despite the basic method of making a sponge cake is to initially cream equal weights of butter and sugar before adding eggs and flour.

 

[LordElpus]

@LordElpus - if you are eating lots of vegetables and as much fruit as you can, that is surely more than one helping of carbs a day, isn't it?

When I say that I limit myself to one portion of carbs per day I guess I mean refined carbs as I am always being told to each as much fruit and vegetables as I want. I avoid potatoes by and large and my main fruit is oranges, kiwifruit and some apples, but I know to go easy on bananas and grapes etc.

 

[Drummer]

When I say that I limit myself to one portion of carbs per day I guess I mean refined carbs as I am always being told to each as much fruit and vegetables as I want. I avoid potatoes by and large and my main fruit is oranges, kiwifruit and some apples, but I know to go easy on bananas and grapes etc.

I suspected that might be the case.
You might want to add up the amount of carbs you are eating and maybe make some swaps.
If you are testing two hours after eating you could be missing the spikes, and fructose will not show up in tests but has to be dealt with by the liver which will convert it into glucose over time.
Carbs were always represented to me as healthy options but they can be very problematic. I knew they were not right for me for decades before diagnosis as type two.
You aren't in diabetic numbers yet - but as a vegan you don't have the really low carb options of an omnivore

 

[LordElpus]

Thank you very much, that makes sense. I am vegan because my wife is also and she is vegan due to a botched stomach operation many years ago that means she cannot digest meat. As she is the main chef in our house this make sense to me and I don't miss it, she is an excellent cook and our meals are varied and enjoyable. Being vegan for us does not mean boring meals
I have a blood sugar record going back to 2013, 8 years ago, when I ate a heck of a lot more meat and carbs, yet the entry for 27/10/2013, my birthday, was 6.2, so nothing has really changed in 8 years. Back then I ate biscuits, cake, bread and often had bedtime snacks of tortilla chips or a sandwich, regular pints of beer too yet my blood sugar rarely went above 7. I have also lost over 3 stone in weight since then so not sure what else I can do.
I am aware that one of the side effects of my medications, that were prescribed after my heart attack in August, is an increase in blood sugar levels, but they don't seem to have had a marked effect that I can tell. I have since discarded two of those medications, as they were unnecessary for me, but the one remaining is required for at least 12 months.
My GP wanted to refer me to a 'diabetic support clinic', which I have declined as it's unlikely they can tell me anything I don't know already and it's too far to travel. I am also autistic so I don't do very well in 'group' situations.
My wife stresses herself about my blood sugar levels but to be fair to her she eats the same foods as me and her levels are 'normal'.

 

[Leadinglights]

Thank you very much, that makes sense. I am vegan because my wife is also and she is vegan due to a botched stomach operation many years ago that means she cannot digest meat. As she is the main chef in our house this make sense to me and I don't miss it, she is an excellent cook and our meals are varied and enjoyable. Being vegan for us does not mean boring meals
I have a blood sugar record going back to 2013, 8 years ago, when I ate a heck of a lot more meat and carbs, yet the entry for 27/10/2013, my birthday, was 6.2, so nothing has really changed in 8 years. Back then I ate biscuits, cake, bread and often had bedtime snacks of tortilla chips or a sandwich, regular pints of beer too yet my blood sugar rarely went above 7. I have also lost over 3 stone in weight since then so not sure what else I can do.
I am aware that one of the side effects of my medications, that were prescribed after my heart attack in August, is an increase in blood sugar levels, but they don't seem to have had a marked effect that I can tell. I have since discarded two of those medications, as they were unnecessary for me, but the one remaining is required for at least 12 months.
My GP wanted to refer me to a 'diabetic support clinic', which I have declined as it's unlikely they can tell me anything I don't know already and it's too far to travel. I am also autistic so I don't do very well in 'group' situations.
My wife stresses herself about my blood sugar levels but to be fair to her she eats the same foods as me and her levels are 'normal'.

It does make it a bit more difficult if veggie or vegan but if you wife is a good cook then you have an advantage
This link may give you some ideas of low carb vegan meals.

21-Day Low-Carb Vegan Dinner Plan

Eating more plant-based meals can help reduce your risk of disease, improve weight loss and increase energy. If you're also looking to eat fewer carbs, be it for weight loss or diabetes management, we have you covered. We pulled together 10 days of low-carb vegan dinner recipes that are low in...

www.eatingwell.com

 

[helli]

Welcome @LordElpus My father experienced something similar to you - a cocktail of drugs that everyone should take following a heart attack regardless of the cause. He refused to take one and after repeated doctors and consultant visits, he pointed out the post heart attack problems he was having were one of the side effects of one of the drugs. He stopped taking it and has been better since.

There is no reason to give up your vegan diet if you have no issues with it. The suggestion that veggie or vegan is "a bit more difficult" is a repeated mantra I read from meat eaters. As someone who enjoys cooking and enjoys variety and enjoys finding something new, I am often surprised how often a find myself trying out another low carb vegan recipe even though, with Type 1, I do not need to eat low carb and I am mostly veggie (I occasionally eat fish) rather than vegan. I don't go searching for low carb vegan, I just find recipes I like the sound of which happen to be that way.

Regarding a raised blood sugar from medication, my understanding is that if you have a healthy pancreas, your body should be able to cope. Blood sugars tend to rise if you have insulin resistance not because you take a certain drug or eat a certain food.

 

[ianf0ster]

................................
My GP wanted to refer me to a 'diabetic support clinic', which I have declined as it's unlikely they can tell me anything I don't know already and it's too far to travel. I am also autistic so I don't do very well in 'group' situations.
My wife stresses herself about my blood sugar levels but to be fair to her she eats the same foods as me and her levels are 'normal'.

Since you say you don't do well in group situations you can definitely get better 'diabetic support' here or in the other British diabetes forum.

What your wife's BG levels are isn't just due to what she eats it's also due to her genetics, her gut microbiome and what she has eaten in the past.
Some people think they are 'cured' of T2 diabetes when after some lifestyle changes they can tolerate a high carb meal that would have previously spiked their BG very high. Usually this turns out not to be the case and if they continue to eat the same way as before becoming diabetic, they become diabetic again - so they were merely in remission (or it was controlled) rather than cured.

You say that your wife can't digest meat (and I presume fish also), but can she digest eggs, yogurt, cheese? They are a fairly large part of the diet of many a T2 diabetic in remission. Don't fear fat, when you cut down on one of the 3 macro-nutrients such as carbs (they only one not actually required for life) then you must naturally increase the amount of one or both of Protein and/or Fat.
Most of us feel that traditionally consumed fats from 'real food' is much better for us than the ultra processed seed oils (what 'vegetable oils' actually are( and which tend to form aldehydes and trans-fats or go rancid quickly).

Even if your wife can't digest eggs or dairy, there is nothing to stop you from eating it - or even cured meats or fish e.g. ham, pastrami, canned salmon or sardines etc.

 

[Felinia]

Hi and welcome
You sound pretty much in control of your body and have a healthy lifestyle with exercise and diet. The modern thinking about diabetes medication is to give newly diagnosed diabetics, who are not too far into the diabetic range, the opportunity to reduce their blood glucose with just dietary changes and exercise, which it sounds like you don't need. Certainly pre-diabetics should not be given diabetes medication.
Unfortunately there are some doctors who throw statins at everyone over a certain age, and also certain medications for "prevention" of further heart attacks. I guess it depends on the reason for the heart attack in the first place. If you had a blood clot, I suspect you might need blood thinners, but I'm not a medical person. My friend came out of hospital after his heart attack with something like 15 pills to take a day, and he had dreadful side effects - balance issues, dizziness, memory loss, speech problems, depression. It's taken 2 years of fighting, and he is now down to just 3 a day, feeling so much better. He just goes for quarterly blood tests.
I love your "name" - my late brother called his house "Dunnaff Hall" - so I suspect you would have had a lot in common!! Best wishes

 

[trophywench]

Our quiz team name is usually Norfolk and Hope.

 

[LordElpus]

Hi and welcome
You sound pretty much in control of your body and have a healthy lifestyle with exercise and diet. The modern thinking about diabetes medication is to give newly diagnosed diabetics, who are not too far into the diabetic range, the opportunity to reduce their blood glucose with just dietary changes and exercise, which it sounds like you don't need. Certainly pre-diabetics should not be given diabetes medication.
Unfortunately there are some doctors who throw statins at everyone over a certain age, and also certain medications for "prevention" of further heart attacks. I guess it depends on the reason for the heart attack in the first place. If you had a blood clot, I suspect you might need blood thinners, but I'm not a medical person. My friend came out of hospital after his heart attack with something like 15 pills to take a day, and he had dreadful side effects - balance issues, dizziness, memory loss, speech problems, depression. It's taken 2 years of fighting, and he is now down to just 3 a day, feeling so much better. He just goes for quarterly blood tests.
I love your "name" - my late brother called his house "Dunnaff Hall" - so I suspect you would have had a lot in common!! Best wishes

“ I guess it depends on the reason for the heart attack in the first place”

I think it’s worth saying that none of the so called ‘risk factors’ for heart attacks applied in my case. I don’t smoke, never have; I don’t have high blood pressure; I am not diabetic; I am not overweight (in fact my BMI is normal); I am not sedentary (I walk my dogs twice a day, garden regularly and ride my bike regularly); my cholesterol is low and has been most of my life; there is no history of heart disease in my immediate family; no issues with blood clots; my heart attack happened at 4am when I was asleep, so I wasn’t even exerting myself.

Fortunately the blood clot was small and didn’t fully block my artery which has meant there is no residual damage to my heart muscle, thankfully, which is why I would guess I haven’t been prescribed any blood thinners as they are not needed.

I have my suspicions as to the cause which relate to the current pandemic and although my cardiologist cannot explain why it has happened now, was also unable to deny the possibility that our current pandemic and its treatment had something to do with it. With the amount of information now surfacing it seems the most likely explanation.

My handle comes from the fact I am a cockney by birth and one of my mothers much used expressions, when I did something wrong or stupid, was to say “Lord ‘elpus”.

thanks for your best wishes.

 

[LordElpus]

Since you say you don't do well in group situations you can definitely get better 'diabetic support' here or in the other British diabetes forum.

What your wife's BG levels are isn't just due to what she eats it's also due to her genetics, her gut microbiome and what she has eaten in the past.
Some people think they are 'cured' of T2 diabetes when after some lifestyle changes they can tolerate a high carb meal that would have previously spiked their BG very high. Usually this turns out not to be the case and if they continue to eat the same way as before becoming diabetic, they become diabetic again - so they were merely in remission (or it was controlled) rather than cured.

You say that your wife can't digest meat (and I presume fish also), but can she digest eggs, yogurt, cheese? They are a fairly large part of the diet of many a T2 diabetic in remission. Don't fear fat, when you cut down on one of the 3 macro-nutrients such as carbs (they only one not actually required for life) then you must naturally increase the amount of one or both of Protein and/or Fat.
Most of us feel that traditionally consumed fats from 'real food' is much better for us than the ultra processed seed oils (what 'vegetable oils' actually are( and which tend to form aldehydes and trans-fats or go rancid quickly).

Even if your wife can't digest eggs or dairy, there is nothing to stop you from eating it - or even cured meats or fish e.g. ham, pastrami, canned salmon or sardines etc

Yes, one of the reasons I am here. The trouble is I have ASD (Aspergers) so I tend to go into great detail about things that interest me so when I come across so called ‘intelligent’ people, usually doctors, who talk rubbish, I tell them so!! It’s gotten me into trouble no end of times, but I won’t apologise for it either.
My wife doesn’t eat meat for both medical and ethical reasons so for her even traditional eggs, yoghurt and cheese are off the menu. We manage quite well really and I realised years ago that the ‘low fat diet’ mantra was a load of rubbish, as is now being shown, so we have a very varied diet but I don’t eat meat of any kind out of respect for my wife. It’s not a big issue for me, I don’t miss it at all.