-
Please Remember: Members are only permitted to share their own experiences. Members are not qualified to give medical advice. Additionally, everyone manages their health differently. Please be respectful of other people's opinions about their own diabetes management.
-
Learn more about joining the Diabetes UK Support Forum team here: https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/volunteering-opportunities-why-dont-you-join-us.112862/
Hello
- Thread starter Key-kadee
- Start date
Vonny
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Tim Aylesbury
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Welcome to the forumn - Key-kadee.
s'nic
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- At risk of diabetes
Type 2's can help with your metformin query
I did look at berberine once, but it seemed it could be dangerous for me to try with the meds I am on
The USA National Library of Medicine has some information on Berberine - You can see that Berberine might change how quickly the liver breaks down some medications. This could change the effects and side effects of affected medications.
You should take professional advice before considering taking it. Also bear in mind that Berberine itself causes side effects.
I did look at berberine once, but it seemed it could be dangerous for me to try with the meds I am on
The USA National Library of Medicine has some information on Berberine - You can see that Berberine might change how quickly the liver breaks down some medications. This could change the effects and side effects of affected medications.
You should take professional advice before considering taking it. Also bear in mind that Berberine itself causes side effects.
rebrascora
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hi and welcome.
How much Metformin do you take and what is it about it that worries you? ie. Are you having side effects from it?
Berberine will be of minimal if any effect, much like cinnamon and apple cider vinegar etc, not that I don't include cinnamon and ACV in my own diet, but I don't really expect them to have much impact. The two most powerful factors in managing your Type 2 diabetes and perhaps pushing it into remission, so that you can consider coming off the Metformin are :-
1. Losing a significant amount of weight if you have weight to lose. The Newcastle diet or Fast 800 or the Oviva (NHS prescribed) Soups and Shakes diets are the 3 well known options. These are short term very low CALORIE diets designed to make your body burn off visceral fat from in and around your pancreas and liver to help restore better or normal function. It is important to maintain the weight loss to maintain the remission and the Oviva program I think provides 12 months support including the soups and shakes and reintegration back onto normal food.
2. Following a low CARBOHYDRATE way of eating for life. This means not just cutting out most of the sweet stuff like sugar and cakes and biscuits and chocolate but also reducing your consumption of high carb foods like bread and pasta and rice and breakfast cereals and starch veg like potatoes. That may seem quite extreme at first but many of us find that after a few weeks or months of it being challenging (lets face it bread is so convenient because it is a carrier for so many foods and it is part of our culture) that cutting it right down or avoiding it is a bit mind boggling but people find lower carb options to buy or make their own low carb versions. Personally I just stopped eating it except on very rare occasions and to be honest I am a little disappointed when I do have it now, but I am 5 years down the line so it has just become my new norm. There have been a lot of other health benefits to me of eating low carb including less joint pain, almost no migraines when I was experiencing an acute one about once a month before I changed my diet, happier gut and more control over my disordered/comfort eating. My skin is also better and interestingly, contrary to what we have been lead to believe my cholesterol has come down despite eating significantly more fat.... because I now get my energy mostly from fat instead of carbohydrates.
There are people on the forum who can share their experiences of both methods and some who have combined the two approaches and lost weight initially with the low calorie approach but switched to lower carb for maintenance instead of going back to normal eating, but some who do the low calorie option find they can go back to eating normally and maintain remission provided that they don't put the weight back on. Others find that going low carb helps them lose and manage their weight anyway.
You have to decide which approach will fit in best with your tastes and lifestyle and mental outlook. As a Yo-Yo dieter, I think finding a new way of eating for life works better for me rather than a diet and then returning to normal eating and as I said, I have found lots of benefits to eating low carb. I am a bit of an all or nothing girl, so once I go back to normal eating I know I will eat too much of the wrong things and be back where I started. Other people find using the soups and shakes approach cuts their bad food habits and allows them to reset their relationship to food, when they restart normal eating. There is no reason why you can't start one approach and if it isn't working for you after a reasonable period of trial, then try a different approach.
How much Metformin do you take and what is it about it that worries you? ie. Are you having side effects from it?
Berberine will be of minimal if any effect, much like cinnamon and apple cider vinegar etc, not that I don't include cinnamon and ACV in my own diet, but I don't really expect them to have much impact. The two most powerful factors in managing your Type 2 diabetes and perhaps pushing it into remission, so that you can consider coming off the Metformin are :-
1. Losing a significant amount of weight if you have weight to lose. The Newcastle diet or Fast 800 or the Oviva (NHS prescribed) Soups and Shakes diets are the 3 well known options. These are short term very low CALORIE diets designed to make your body burn off visceral fat from in and around your pancreas and liver to help restore better or normal function. It is important to maintain the weight loss to maintain the remission and the Oviva program I think provides 12 months support including the soups and shakes and reintegration back onto normal food.
2. Following a low CARBOHYDRATE way of eating for life. This means not just cutting out most of the sweet stuff like sugar and cakes and biscuits and chocolate but also reducing your consumption of high carb foods like bread and pasta and rice and breakfast cereals and starch veg like potatoes. That may seem quite extreme at first but many of us find that after a few weeks or months of it being challenging (lets face it bread is so convenient because it is a carrier for so many foods and it is part of our culture) that cutting it right down or avoiding it is a bit mind boggling but people find lower carb options to buy or make their own low carb versions. Personally I just stopped eating it except on very rare occasions and to be honest I am a little disappointed when I do have it now, but I am 5 years down the line so it has just become my new norm. There have been a lot of other health benefits to me of eating low carb including less joint pain, almost no migraines when I was experiencing an acute one about once a month before I changed my diet, happier gut and more control over my disordered/comfort eating. My skin is also better and interestingly, contrary to what we have been lead to believe my cholesterol has come down despite eating significantly more fat.... because I now get my energy mostly from fat instead of carbohydrates.
There are people on the forum who can share their experiences of both methods and some who have combined the two approaches and lost weight initially with the low calorie approach but switched to lower carb for maintenance instead of going back to normal eating, but some who do the low calorie option find they can go back to eating normally and maintain remission provided that they don't put the weight back on. Others find that going low carb helps them lose and manage their weight anyway.
You have to decide which approach will fit in best with your tastes and lifestyle and mental outlook. As a Yo-Yo dieter, I think finding a new way of eating for life works better for me rather than a diet and then returning to normal eating and as I said, I have found lots of benefits to eating low carb. I am a bit of an all or nothing girl, so once I go back to normal eating I know I will eat too much of the wrong things and be back where I started. Other people find using the soups and shakes approach cuts their bad food habits and allows them to reset their relationship to food, when they restart normal eating. There is no reason why you can't start one approach and if it isn't working for you after a reasonable period of trial, then try a different approach.
So sorry to hear you are so worried about metformin. Are you on 500, 1000, 2000 per day or more?
When I was prescribed 2000 per day I looked Metformin up and was aghast when I read stuff like this:
Metformin can have many side effects, including:
I see Berberine takes about 3 months to take effect. I followed a real food version of the Newcastle Diet. My blood glucose was down to 5.8 in a week, and my HbA1c down to 39 after 3 months. It would be easier to take a little longer to achieve a similar result following a plan like this, What should we eat? https://www.zoeharcombe.com/2021/08/what-should-we-eat/
When I was prescribed 2000 per day I looked Metformin up and was aghast when I read stuff like this:
Metformin can have many side effects, including:
- Gastrointestinal
Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach ache, loss of appetite, metallic taste in the mouth, belching, bloating, heartburn, indigestion, and passing of gas
- Other
Cough or hoarseness, decreased appetite, fast or shallow breathing, fever or chills, general feeling of discomfort, lower back or side pain, muscle pain or cramping, sleepiness, bladder pain, change in the color, amount, or odor of vaginal discharge
I see Berberine takes about 3 months to take effect. I followed a real food version of the Newcastle Diet. My blood glucose was down to 5.8 in a week, and my HbA1c down to 39 after 3 months. It would be easier to take a little longer to achieve a similar result following a plan like this, What should we eat? https://www.zoeharcombe.com/2021/08/what-should-we-eat/
stephenS50
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hello there and welcome to the forum @Key-kadee.
Lucyr
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
The standard dose of metformin is 2000mg, lower doses are only to get used to the side effects really, so if your dose has increased to 2000 that’s normal. Are you on more than that?
Hi all, thank you for your responses. I’m on 2000 metformin. I’ve recently had my diabetic eye screen and now have background retinopathy. That really upset me. I’ve half heartedly followed far 800 for about 4 years. The weight just doesn’t seem to go. I’m only about 11/2 stone overweight. I’m so exhausted all the time.
I am afraid we are not allowed to advise you here. That means you have to go back to your GP/DN and discuss your options for making the changes you need to make.
If I were you I would consider: changing your diet (as already mentioned), adjustments to your medication, and the possibility of going onto the NHS remission programme.
In the end diet is the best and indeed only way back to normal. This chart may help you see what adjustments to make to ensure you are eating enough of the right things to restore your energy: https://www.lowcarbfreshwell.com/documents/8/Freshwell_Red_Amber_Green.pdf
Can you switch from anything on the red list to other things on the green list?
If I were you I would consider: changing your diet (as already mentioned), adjustments to your medication, and the possibility of going onto the NHS remission programme.
In the end diet is the best and indeed only way back to normal. This chart may help you see what adjustments to make to ensure you are eating enough of the right things to restore your energy: https://www.lowcarbfreshwell.com/documents/8/Freshwell_Red_Amber_Green.pdf
Can you switch from anything on the red list to other things on the green list?
s'nic
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- At risk of diabetes
@Key-kadee I can't advise on the metformin, but we have a number of people who have found that accepted diets have not worked for them. The bottom line is the best diet for you is one that you can live with day in and day out.
I lost over 18% of my body weight by not following a diet. Just focussing on 3 key targets, set by myself, for myself - they were maximum grams of carb / fat / protein a day. These 3 are where we consume calories, but actually my focus was on my prediabetes / cholesterol / kidneys.
Then I ate food I would enjoy, but generally aiming to stay close to those 3 targets. If I went over I didn't beat myself up over it - life happens.
If I fell off the wagon, I got back on.
You don't have to try and live according to someone else's diet sheet, so long as you can set sensible daily targets for yourself.
Even though my aim is to lose weight I don't view myself as on a diet. I just have to factor treats into my daily target or accept that I will go over on that day, and that's fine - like I say, life happens 🙂
I lost over 18% of my body weight by not following a diet. Just focussing on 3 key targets, set by myself, for myself - they were maximum grams of carb / fat / protein a day. These 3 are where we consume calories, but actually my focus was on my prediabetes / cholesterol / kidneys.
Then I ate food I would enjoy, but generally aiming to stay close to those 3 targets. If I went over I didn't beat myself up over it - life happens.
If I fell off the wagon, I got back on.
You don't have to try and live according to someone else's diet sheet, so long as you can set sensible daily targets for yourself.
Even though my aim is to lose weight I don't view myself as on a diet. I just have to factor treats into my daily target or accept that I will go over on that day, and that's fine - like I say, life happens 🙂
Lucyr
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
I wouldn’t worry too much about it, most diabetics get it. I’ve had it for years, no extra checks or treatments needed just annual screening instead of every two years. Some people find their background retinopathy goes away even.
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Sorry to hear about your background retinopathy @Key-kadee
I have had a few years of ‘background’ and a few years of ‘all clear’.
My last one was back to ‘background’, but I’m not sure what the next one will be in Jan/Feb.
Those letters are really upsetting, and very full of doom and gloom, but the changes that are being noticed are tiny, and many on the forum find they simply stay the same for years, or those tiny changes resolve and they go back to being all clear.
Aiming to keep your glucose levels as stable and in-range as you can for as much of the time as you can will really help. As will keeping your BP under control.
Personally I wouldn’t try berberine. The evidence for its use is pretty thin, and not great quality. If it had better research evidence to support it, it’d be available on prescription.
Diabetes UK have this page about ‘natural’ and ‘herbal’ supplements, as it’s a question that comes up a lot.
Herbal and food supplements
Many people rely on traditional herbal and complementary remedies, which are said to help with blood glucose control. These remedies can be homemade or bought from local shops, and while they may have benefits, they should not be a substitute for your medications.