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Hello.. new to the group. Wanting to talk more about how to cope new to diabetes and started insulin last week.

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Donna86

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Hello.... New to the group... New to diabetes.... Needed some people to talk to. About 5 years ago I had pancreatitis from gall stones in the hospital for around 3 months super Ill and my pancreas necrotised think I lost half of it in total. Fast forward to november 22 went the doctors with thrush had blood test HBAC 116 started on Metformin went to 96. Referred to the hospital went for an appointment with diabetic nurses and was told that I needed to start insulin 4 times a day and test glucose four times a day. I've been researching as you do and believe my pancreas may not be functioning properly. If there is anyone with similar experiences please get in touch finding the whole insulin and testing a bit relentless and draining atm. Thank you in advance and Hello the threads seem really helpful
 
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Hi Donna, that sounds like your Diabetes classification is Type 3c, we have a few members who have that (lost part or all of their pancreas to disease or surgery), I'll tag a couple so hopefully they will be along soon @eggyg @Proud to be erratic to share their experiences
 
Hi Donna, that sounds like your Diabetes classification is Type 3c, we have a few members who have that (lost part or all of their pancreas to disease or surgery), I'll tag a couple so hopefully they will be along soon @eggyg @Proud to be erratic to share their experiences
Hello yes I thought so to just from what I had read. I am awaiting an appointment with the consultant atm. They haven't said which type well the doctor said type 2 well nurse practitioner didn't really see a doctor. Thank you for the tags look forward to connecting with people who have experienced similar and how they are coping etc. Thanks again Donna.
 
Hello Donna @Donna86,

Welcome to the forum. In my very non-medical opinion I believe, as you have already stated, that you should be formally diagnosed as T3c and it is very much in your interest to resist anyone categorising you as T2. It is the cause of the Diabetes, not the subsequent treatment, that leads to the categorisation after the initial diagnosis.

There are some 4.5 million people in UK with a diabetes diagnosis. Of those about 90% are categorised as T2 and although some of the causes of their T2 diagnosis vary, in very broad terms those 90% produce sufficient insulin, but their bodies resist making best use of the insulin they are producing. Treatment for T2 is often by oral meds, but some T2s need to inject insulin either alongside oral meds or sometimes just multiple daily injections. That's a somewhat simplistic overview. But the net outcome is that all T2s are treated by their GP Surgeries; this is in accordance with National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) Guidance. By definition GP Surgeries are "general" and wide ranging in their understanding of medical conditions; whereas Diabetes can be complex and needing more specialist support.

There are some 10% who are diagnosed as T1. This is quite specific to people who have an autoimmune condition that destroys (or has destroyed) their ability to produce insulin. All T1s are, in accordance with the NICE Guidance, treated by specialist clinics, usually hospital based and at the very least come under a Diabetes Specialist Nurse (DSN).

There are several other categories of diabetes, but the total number of people within "these others" is small, less than 1% and with one exception (gestational diabetes) have type descriptors that make little sense to anyone, including sometimes Health Care Practitioners (HCPs).

T3c is such a category - tiny population, but potentially quite complex mix of 2 ailments. Strictly there can be a range of T3s, from a to k, which embraces people with any damage to their pancreas that causes diabetes. T3c is specifically for those with damage from pancreatitis (such as yourself) or who have had their pancreas surgically removed (such as myself, to remove the cancerous tumour surrounding my pancreas). Because the T3c category is relatively new terminology many GPs have never heard of it (mine hadn't) and similarly it isn't necessarily going to be recognised by A&E doctors. So far, clear (ish)?

Most T3cs end up needing insulin - but not all. There is one forum member, @zippyjojo, who has diabetes after pancreatitis and currently being treated solely by oral meds, even after surgery that has left her without part of her pancreas; those oral meds help her body to make the most out of the insulin she does produce. @eggyg started with oral meds but is now fully insulin dependent. I, without any pancreas, immediately became insulin dependent - but I have only a small understanding about pancreatitis. I had pancreatic cancer and am currently, happily, in remission from that and I know a certain amount about chemotherapy and oncology in general! We T3cs can arrive at this diagnosis from different start points. Those of us who are insulin dependent need to come under Specialist Diabetes Clinics (as if T1, but not actually T1) and not GP Surgeries where the knowledge and understanding can be alarmingly poor - and that is just for the diabetes, never mind (in your case) the underlying pancreatitis. Not wishing to alarm you but you have 2 co-morbidities which could provide some contradiction in the treatments needed.

Hence why it is important for you to get your diabetes type formally confirmed as T3c and as if T1, thus eligible for T1 treatment, including devices such as Continuous Glucose Monitors (CGM).

Stepping away from the categorisation aspect, as someone now with identified insulin dependency you are now facing a huge learning curve and I can wholly empathise with you at this time. Gary Scheiner, in his book "Think Like a Pancreas" remarks that Diabetes is Complicated, Confusing and Contradictory; it can also be pretty frightening at first. I found that book very helpful and pretty easy to read from cover to cover (well almost, I skipped the chapter on pumps - reserving that for a later date). I also have Dr Ragnar Hanas's book "Type1 Diabetes - in children, adolescents and young adults", which is more of a reference book to dip into as needed; don't be put off by the title, it is fine for this 73 year old.

You will find a vast amount of information about D from Google - so much that it can overwhelm one. There is a huge amount of good, high quality info from the Diabetes UK main site as well as this forum. There is literally centuries of accumulated knowledge within the forum; it might help you to be aware that at this early stage the treatments for T1 can be very different than T2, particularly when it comes to food choices; thanks to taking insulin you should be able to eat your normal diet. Possibly your pancreatitis will influence your food choices more than your D. Advice offered by forum members is not "judgemental". Do ask questions - any questions; there is no such thing as a silly question. We all started "new to D". And we are all different; what works for one person may not work for another. So you have to find what works for you, amidst certain D commonality.

Good luck, take things steadily - you've started a marathon (even if it wasn't your choice!). To help you manage your expectations - it takes time to get to grips with all of this and I don't expect to ever finally get control of my D, just to manage it as best I can with all of its contradictions.
 
Firstly thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me and give me so much information and insight and for that I am very grateful that you took the time to go through so many things in one reply.
I will definitely get a copy of at least one of those books but with full time work and juggling 3 small children I very rarely have any time for myself at the end of the day between glucose testing and insulin injections but this is something that I am working towards to make more time for me and look after myself.
I have seen the diabetic nurse at the hospital, she was the one who started me on the insulin didn't know I would be coming away from the hospital insulin dependent but I had my suspicions as I don't have any family history of d. I am awaiting an appointment with the consultant atm.
Can I just ask you a couple of questions....
Do you have the glucose monitoring device and do you have an insulin pump? Do you find it easier to manage if you do have them?
I've only forgot one injection so far and managed to remember half way through my tea so not doing to bad but just finding the relentlessness of it all a bit hard at the moment but I best get used to this journey I'm on.
If you don't mind me asking sorry, but how did you come to find out about the pancreatic cancer and was it because of anything else or an isolated issue? It's a worry and fear of mine just because of how bad my pancreatitis was and how bad it necrotised.
Thank you.
 
Hi @Donna86 . I'm also T3C after having most of my pancreas removed in June 2022. I started on metformin to control my diabetes but that wasn't working so have been insulin dependent since August 2022. I'll be honest with you, it was hard at first and it takes some time to get your head around it but you will. I use the Dexcom1 to monitor my numbers and this has been a huge help but don't rely on them 100%, if you have hypo or hyper symptoms, do a finger prick.
I suffered with the symptoms of chronic pancreatitis for years and despite doctors picking it up on a scan in 2009, no one ever told me or treated me for it. In 2022 I had a CT scan for something else and they picked up a cyst on the pancreas. They operated, removed the pancreas and tested the cyst and it was early cancer. So I was lucky it got spotted early but I think not having my chronic pancreatitis treated hasn't helped.
 
Hi @Donna86 . I'm also T3C after having most of my pancreas removed in June 2022. I started on metformin to control my diabetes but that wasn't working so have been insulin dependent since August 2022. I'll be honest with you, it was hard at first and it takes some time to get your head around it but you will. I use the Dexcom1 to monitor my numbers and this has been a huge help but don't rely on them 100%, if you have hypo or hyper symptoms, do a finger prick.
I suffered with the symptoms of chronic pancreatitis for years and despite doctors picking it up on a scan in 2009, no one ever told me or treated me for it. In 2022 I had a CT scan for something else and they picked up a cyst on the pancreas. They operated, removed the pancreas and tested the cyst and it was early cancer. So I was lucky it got spotted early but I think not having my chronic pancreatitis treated hasn't helped.
Hi... thanks so much for your message I also started on Metformin first of all then glicazide which they said wasn't working enough then the doctor finally reffered me and the diabetic nurses put me onto insulin straight away. I've been looking at the monitors how long did it take you to get one? Gosh that's not good how long you suffered with pancreatitis especially with how painful it is. I had a psudocyst on mine and had stents put in to slowly drain it they have been removed since. Always worrying it could develop into pancreatic cancer but It's so lovely to hear that there is a few type 3c and have had there pancreas removed and are ok it's reassuring to know. Very lucky to get it spotted early like you say.
 
Hi @Donna86, it sounds like you are getting the right care being put onto insulin by the hospital nurses, hopefully it is starting to get your BG levels down and in check. There is a lot to learn and understand, just take it easy on yourself and keep asking questions both on here and to your hospital team.

Some great words of advice from @Proud to be erratic and I would definitely recommend Gary Scheiner’s “Think Like a Pancreas”, very well written, thorough and easy to understand. Definitely get your diabetes classified correctly as that will make a huge difference to getting the right care for you from the specialists who understand insulin and can give you the right advice, help and support.
 
Hi Donna - thanks @Proud to be erratic for remembering me. I had a large mucinous cyst on my pancreas that was found in May 2021, probably by chance when I presented with gall stone symptoms. Touch & go for a while when they thought it was cancer after a PET scan but turned out that was due to a leakage during an endoscopy which set off a horrendous bout of pancreatitis. So luckily for me it wasn't cancer but just needed major surgery to take out the gall bladder, 2/3rds of my pancreas and then the spleen because it couldn't be left floating around :rofl: My HbA1c 3 months after surgery was 99 so I started on Metformin and managed to reduce it to 52. I then got a bit complacent and it's gone up to 68 so I'm trying to focus again. Anyone on here who knows me knows that I'm trying to fend off having to use insulin but my consultant did once say that it's much better to go on insulin than live with badly managed diabetes and as everyone says, it's nothing to be ashamed of as it's not a lifestyle thing, just that I've had over half of my pancreas removed. Not sure if this helps but I can honestly say these forums have been amazing. There is a lovely one called Group 7 day waking average which is a general chit chat and definitely worth going on.
 
Hi @Donna86
I'm another type 3c following necrotising pancreatitis in 2019. I had a 6 month hospital stay so really sympathise with your experience.

As I have very little pancreas left I've been on insulin from the beginning, categorised as Type 3c and treated by the endocrinology department at the hospital.
It's good to hear that you've been seen by the hospital DSNs.
It is really worth pushing to be categorised as Type 3c as you should then be treated in the same way as Type 1 diabetics and have access to diabetes technology eg Libre or other CGMs.

I'm pretty impressed that you've managed without insulin for so long!

Do you need to take digestive enzymes eg Creon? Sorry if you've mentioned it somewhere and I've missed it.

Glad that you've found us and if you have any questions please feel free to ask them.
 
Firstly thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me and give me so much information and insight and for that I am very grateful that you took the time to go through so many things in one reply.
You are most welcome.
I will definitely get a copy of at least one of those books but with full time work and juggling 3 small children I very rarely have any time for myself at the end of the day between glucose testing and insulin injections but this is something that I am working towards to make more time for me and look after myself.
Good thinking. You already have a full and busy schedule, without the D. Eventually, a lot of your D management will become fairly routine; there is an excellent analogy with learning to drive. At first that seems challenging and frightening, then you get blasé and make mistakes but in due course you just drive and arrive with very little thought about the process.
I have seen the diabetic nurse at the hospital, she was the one who started me on the insulin didn't know I would be coming away from the hospital insulin dependent but I had my suspicions as I don't have any family history of d. I am awaiting an appointment with the consultant atm.
Can I just ask you a couple of questions....
Do you have the glucose monitoring device and do you have an insulin pump? Do you find it easier to manage if you do have them?
Yes I have Libre 2 as my CGM. My example is complicated: my body and Libre 2 don't work well together, it is far from accurate and I've had over 50% failures. The vast majority of Libre 2 users have no great problem with it - except when the manufacturers Abbott) muck it up for themselves as well as many users; that is an entirely different matter.

Despite that background I still would NOT willingly be without CGM. My Consultant has readily accepted my predicament and after the change in NICE Guidance in April 22 he recommended a "no extra cost to the NHS" change from Libre 2 to Dexcom One. Alas, because of bureaucracy that change has not yet happened, so the prospective change remains "work in progress". Even with Libre 2 being difficult for me, my August 22 HbA1c was 45, which is simply great for someone without a Pancreas. I credit that solely thanks to CGM.

No, I don't have a pump. I want one, but self-funding would be painful; so I'm going to try to make a case for getting one through the NHS. But I'm far from eligible right now. Your circumstance, young, mum of 3 might give you a much stronger case for pump eligibility. However, this is sprinting before learning to walk! Pumps can fail and you need to have total confidence that you can always manage your D using the basics of MDI. My current HbA1c not only undermines my case to be provided with a pump by the NHS, but proves I can manage my D - too well, perversely!
I've only forgot one injection so far and managed to remember half way through my tea so not doing to bad but just finding the relentlessness of it all a bit hard at the moment but I best get used to this journey I'm on.
Yes, it can feel relentless and somehow you have to create your own mindset that says "I can do this". It definitely gets easier with time.
If you don't mind me asking sorry, but how did you come to find out about the pancreatic cancer and was it because of anything else or an isolated issue?
I was on holiday in Sicily in late Oct 2019 and my wife realised I was going yellow! Literally. I had jaundice because a tumour around my pancreas had decided to block my bile duct and jaundice was taking hold. We curtailed our trip, flew home as soon as possible. I had no other prior inkling of the forthcoming pancreatic cancer diagnosis; I'd had a run of urinary tract infections during 2019 and found I was seriously allergic to Penicillin and 2 of the primary antibiotics for UTIs - but no hint or suggestion these could be related.
It's a worry and fear of mine just because of how bad my pancreatitis was and how bad it necrotised.
Thank you.
Presumably, because of your pancreatitis, you've had CT scans both in the past and recently. I can't imagine anything other than those scans have been diligently examined for any cancer signs. But if you need reassurance, ask. The scans can easily be reexamined.

I'm assuming (hoping) that you've been told about hypos and how to manage those. Has the rule of 15 been explained? I always, ALWAYS, have hypo response treatments close to hand and in virtually every room of the house there is a small cache of 3 Jelly Babies (15 gms of rapid response carbohydrate) as a contingency (I don't particularly like Dextrose). Also in both cars, at my daughters house and in every coat pocket! Nowadays, thankscto CGM and the alerts (alarms) set at at c.5.0mmol/mol I very rarely go hypo; when I get an alert I'm heading low I immediately eat a snack - a JB if nothing else, but usually a small plain biscuit is better when not actually hypo. I find that the medium intensity glucose endures, whereas the high intensity JBs give a fairly instant response, which is fine when actually hypo but less effective for nudging one's BG up a little and sustaining that nudge. You eventually need to find what works for you.

Also, are you aware that your insulin dependency gives you a degree of employment protection ... in that it is formally a disability and any employer has to take your disability into account and accommodate your needs - otherwise they can be accused of discrimination. If this sounds horrifying and intimidating, apologies. I mention it to keep you informed, in case your diagnosis feels like a problem looming - which it doesn't need to be.

I need CREON capsules to replace my non-existent digestive enzymes.

All for now, keep asking if you are unsure about anything.
 
Welcome to the forum @Donna86

Glad you’ve been welcomed into the warm embrace of our 3c’s and creonistas.

Hope the switch to insulin goes smoothly, and keep firing away with any questions as they arise.

Are you expecting a referral to the diabetes team at your local hospital?
 
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