Hello everyone ive just joined this forum

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Welcome @hazel eyes 🙂 I’m Type 1 so on insulin. I’ve read a little about berberine online but if you do decide to try it, check with your doctor or pharmacist that it won’t interact with any other medication you’re taking.
 
Crikey! Yes, 50+ years ago but not since, as it's been realised that diet and activity levels are much more effective to add to ANY drug treatment. And it also has much the same gastric side effects as Metformin, anyway. There's no cure whatever you try, but certainly possible to achieve remission/lessening of problemsome symptoms..
 
There have been threads in the past about that and similar 'non drug' substances purporting to be the magic cure for Type 2 diabetes which have little proven effect and in general have not gone through the rigorous testing that other medication have gone through. Dietary changes are just as important even with medication and can be even more powerful than metformin.
 
Welcome to the forum @hazel eyes

Berberine was historically a Chinese remedy for diarrhoea and dysentery, but it is not licensed as a prescription drug in the UK as far as I am aware.

It is also not approved by NICE in the UK nor the FDA for the treatment of T2 diabetes.

There seem to be a few small studies that suggest some positive effects in T2, but it doesn’t appear that there is sufficient high quality evidence to persuade NICE to recommend it.

In general Diabetes UK don’t recommend herbal supplements, and just because something is herbal, natural or traditional, doesn’t mean it is necessarily safe.

”Diabetes UK does not recommend the use of herbal remedies and supplements as there is not enough evidence that they are safe and effective for people with diabetes to use.”

Herbal and food supplements

Many people rely on traditional herbal and complementary remedies, which are said to help with blood glucose control. These remedies can be homemade or bought from local shops, and while they may have benefits, they should not be a substitute for your medications.
www.diabetes.org.uk www.diabetes.org.uk
 
Hi and Welcome. I am another sceptic when it comes to taking something herbal for your diabetes. What is effective for most people here on the forum is reducing your carb intake and self testing, so that you can see how foods impact your Blood Glucose (BG) levels. That is tried and tested and far more powerful than most oral diabetes medication, certainly more powerful than Metformin, so that would be what many of us would recommend unless you are on other stronger diabetes medication like Gliclazide or insulin and even then it is possible to come off those medications for some people by following a low carb way of eating but it has to be done cautiously and ideally with support from your nurse/doctor.

Can you tell us a bit about how you came to be diagnosed and what if any medication you have been prescribed .... and your HbA1c result if you know it? This is the blood test result which is used to diagnose and monitor your diabetes and will usually be a number in excess of 47 if you have a full diabetes diagnosis.
 
Another sceptic here as well. My take is the simple one, if it were any good then its effect would be well known and everybody would be using it.
 
hazel eyes said:
Has anyone ever heard of Berberine to take instead of metformin Thank you
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I’ve actually been taking berberine and it’s had an amazing effect. I am type 2 on a basal/bolus regime. I am low carb and used to take a couple of units of bolus before meals. I started having real problems with my blood staying stable overnight, then spiking as soon as I got up, and continuing to rise, so I have had to take quite a lot (for me) of correction bolus doses. I’ve been taking 500mg of berberine before each meal, and i’ve been able to reduce my basal and cease taking correction bolus. Stable overnight and no rise when I get up. I’m actually running quite low so will need to reduce my basal further. So for me it’s a yes! I have no gastric problems with it either. I have never been offered Metformin, so can’t compare it, but anything that lowers my glucose level and reduces my insulin dosage is great.
When I was diagnosed, I had a BMI of 23, a small waist measurement, was fit and active, so I didn’t need to change my lifestyle.
 
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louisew said:
I’ve actually been taking berberine and it’s had an amazing effect. I am type 2 on a basal/bolus regime. I am low carb and used to take a couple of units of bolus before meals. I started having real problems with my blood staying stable overnight, then spiking as soon as I got up, and continuing to rise, so I have had to take quite a lot (for me) of correction bolus doses. I’ve been taking 500mg of berberine before each meal, and i’ve been able to reduce my basal and cease taking correction bolus. Stable overnight and no rise when I get up. I’m actually running quite low so will need to reduce my basal further. So for me it’s a yes! I have no gastric problems with it either. I have never been offered Metformin, so can’t compare it, but anything that lowers my glucose level and reduces my insulin dosage is great.
When I was diagnosed, I had a BMI of 23, a small waist measurement, was fit and active, so I didn’t need to change my lifestyle.
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Have you ever been tested for Type 1 diabetes?
I was just looking back through your previous posts and not only do you not fit the typical Type 2 profile but you also had the main Type 1 symptom of weight loss at diagnosis. It is also really odd that you have never been prescribed Metformin as that is the first line medication for Type 2 diabetes.
Would you mind telling us a bit about how you came to be diagnosed? Was your HbA1c very high at diagnosis? I appreciate it is rather off topic with the Berberine but if you are in the honeymoon period of Type 1 then that may explain why your insulin needs have reduced.
Also Type 2 diabetics usually need large doses of insulin to overcome insulin resistance. It doesn't sound like this is the case for you.
 
rebrascora said:
Have you ever been tested for Type 1 diabetes?
I was just looking back through your previous posts and not only do you not fit the typical Type 2 profile but you also had the main Type 1 symptom of weight loss at diagnosis. It is also really odd that you have never been prescribed Metformin as that is the first line medication for Type 2 diabetes.
Would you mind telling us a bit about how you came to be diagnosed? Was your HbA1c very high at diagnosis? I appreciate it is rather off topic with the Berberine but if you are in the honeymoon period of Type 1 then that may explain why your insulin needs have reduced.
Also Type 2 diabetics usually need large doses of insulin to overcome insulin resistance. It doesn't sound like this is the case for you.
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I was diagnosed last september. I had no signs of it apart from my legs had got quite skinny and were feeling a bit weak. But I’d been on holidays in the months before and I’d done hikes in the jungle scrambling up steep slopes, scuba diving, kayaking, 4 hour turtle patrols on the beach and thought at 58, I was showing my age a bit. I got covid and was a bit unwell. 3 days after i tested negative, it felt like I’d been hit by a bus. I was seriously unwell. After managing to drag myself to the doctors and having a blood test, I got called in immediately. I think my blood reading was 243 and i has high ketones. I was put immediately onto basal insulin and told to go low carb. Think my blood sugar was usually lower because I was so active but 2 weeks in isolation and my husband bringing me glasses of orange juice to make me feel better (don’t usually drink it) pushed me over the edge. My GP did send me for a diabetes 1 test and it showed it was type 2. My Grandad was type 1 and died from complications. My dad, who is also fit, active, slim, healthy diet was diagnosed type 2 a bit older than me. DN says I’m just unlucky. I went very low carb and stabilised my sugars but got told off by DN who said I should be having 60 carbs a day. Eventually i asked the DN to prescribe me bolus because I was increasing my basal so much that i was going very low at night. I did a food diary, eating 20 carbs a meal to show i needed it. Anyway under stress at the moment because my dad is dying, working during the summer and not being able to do my work outs led to my sugars going a bit haywire. Mind you I’m very strict with myself and keep it around 5-6. So that’s my story. I am bewildered. I eat the same as my husband except he eats more cheese and sweets and he is perfectly healthy. But it is what it is. Regarding the Berberine, after a week, my blood sugars stabilised. I no longer have a big spike, as soon as I get up. No diet change. In face I’m having to eat more carbs to keep my blood sugar from going too low, while I’m adjusting my basal. Luckily I self fund a libre which keeps me safe. I’m a bit vague on what my original hbac1 as the DN just scribbled a couple of targets down and sent to get on with it. No information, no support. The 1st blood readings in my log were around 15. 3 months later, HBAC1 7.3, In April 6.4, having another test this month
 
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The diagnosis coming hot on the heels of the Covid makes it sound more and more like Type 1 as a virus is often believed to be the trigger for the immune system to attack the insulin producing beta cells and Covid seems to have been a particularly active trigger.
Which tests did you have done for Type 1 and what where the results and who interpreted them. They are not always straightforward positive or negative and the results really need to be interpreted by an experienced consultant. Was it a urine or blood test? Sometimes the instructions for preparation for the C-peptide test are not given to the patient because the test is not a common one and that can seriously impact the results as well as eating low carb.

I would be extremely surprised if you are not Type 1 given all that information. On clinical presentation alone, you are clearly Type 1.... slim, active, sudden onset, weight loss and very high HbA1c, ketones, insulin dependent from the start and developed after a virus infection. I can't think of another single factor for Type 1 plus you don't tick any boxes for Type 2. The tests for Type 1 can be inconclusive for a variety of reasons, but you could be diagnosed on those clinical presentation factors alone.

So very sorry to hear about your Dad! It is very difficult losing parents and worse so I would guess knowing it is happening and having to witness that and support them. My heart bleeds for you! Is he also insulin dependent?

I appreciate that I am making a bit of an issue about this and you probably are not in the right frame of mind to go into it further right now with your Dad being so ill, but getting a Type 1 diagnosis would get you Libre on prescription and may give you the option of an insulin pump at some point in the future, so it can make a significant difference. So it would be worth having a look at your records and seeing what tests were done and what the results were if you want to pursue things at some point in the future, when life is less stressful.
As it is, you could be prescribed Libre as a Type 2 on MDI but it is much harder to convince a GP to do so. With Type 1 it is now standard practice although many of us self funded until we were prescribed it, because, as no doubt you are aware, it is a game changer.

Out of curiosity, is there any reason why you mention your husband eating more cheese than you? Cheese is low carb and therefore shouldn't be a problem for your diabetes. I am a cheeseaholic.... having pretty much weaned myself off chocolate since diagnosis, apart from the odd square of very dark 80% every now and then. It would be a shame if you were depriving yourself of cheese when you didn't need to.
 
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rebrascora said:
The diagnosis coming hot on the heels of the Covid makes it sound more and more like Type 1 as a virus is often believed to be the trigger for the immune system to attack the insulin producing beta cells and Covid seems to have been a particularly active trigger.
Which tests did you have done for Type 1 and what where the results and who interpreted them. They are not always straightforward positive or negative and the results really need to be interpreted by an experienced consultant. Was it a urine or blood test? Sometimes the instructions for preparation for the C-peptide test are not given to the patient because the test is not a common one and that can seriously impact the results as well as eating low carb.

I would be extremely surprised if you are not Type 1 given all that information. On clinical presentation alone, you are clearly Type 1.... slim, active, sudden onset, weight loss and very high HbA1c, ketones, insulin dependent from the start and developed after a virus infection. I can't think of another single factor for Type 1 plus you don't tick any boxes for Type 2. The tests for Type 1 can be inconclusive for a variety of reasons, but you could be diagnosed on those clinical presentation factors alone.

So very sorry to hear about your Dad! It is very difficult losing parents and worse so I would guess knowing it is happening and having to witness that and support them. My heart bleeds for you! Is he also insulin dependent?

I appreciate that I am making a bit of an issue about this and you probably are not in the right frame of mind to go into it further right now with your Dad being so ill, but getting a Type 1 diagnosis would get you Libre on prescription and may give you the option of an insulin pump at some point in the future, so it can make a significant difference. So it would be worth having a look at your records and seeing what tests were done and what the results were if you want to pursue things at some point in the future, when life is less stressful.
As it is, you could be prescribed Libre as a Type 2 on MDI but it is much harder to convince a GP to do so. With Type 1 it is now standard practice although many of us self funded until we were prescribed it, because, as no doubt you are aware, it is a game changer.

Out of curiosity, is there any reason why you mention your husband eating more cheese than you? Cheese is low carb and therefore shouldn't be a problem for your diabetes. I am a cheeseaholic.... having pretty much weaned myself off chocolate since diagnosis, apart from the odd square of very dark 80% every now and then. It would be a shame if you were depriving yourself of cheese when you didn't need to.
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Thankyou for your input. I had a blood test at the hospital requested by my GP, not my DN. A few months ago, I tried to get a copy of the test results and got a very blunt response from the DN that I’m type 2. I only mentioned the cheese because that’s the only difference in our diet . We always ate home made healthy food, lots of vegetables. Only occasional takeouts and although I used to eat chocolate, a real aversion to over the top sweet concoctions. So not caused by diet. I use the CGM because I keep my blood sugar levels low and if I take long walks or do gardening, I can go too low. I’m quite anxious about it, probably because I’ve always seen myself as a healthy individual. My blood pressure and heart health are really good, and blood works showed no other problems aside from my blood sugars. For the small amount of insulin that I take, compared with some people, I really don’t see the need for a pump. I’m pretty good at keeping my sugars level and really don’t care about eating carbs, there’s plenty of alternatives.
I wonder that this has come on due to severe stress and anxiety and lack of sleep over the last 3 years. I nearly lost my beloved son ( at age 24) to pancreatitis and sepsis three years ago (caused by undiagnosed crohns) and he suffered from severe ptsd, anxiety and depression (suicidal) for 2 years. I supported him throughout, no help from the NHS, luckily he got access to an amazing therapist through his work, and he’s got through it. But I never slept more than 5 hours a night all through it. Then my daughter had to leave uni due to anxiety and depression (lockdown were hard for her as it was for many young people) she didn’t tell me she was struggling because of me having to cope with my boy, so that devastated me. Then I lost my beloved dog (my constant comfort through lockdowns) and that kind of tipped me over the edge. I don’t suffer from depression but that doesn’t mean I don’t get extremely sad and depressed. But I am stoic and always just get on with what life throws at me. (PS before this, we all had a very blessed life, happy and healthy) it just all came at once, and boy I did not take my diabetes diagnosis well.
Sorry for wittering but just trying to explain why I think it crept up on me. And no my dad was never on insulin. My mum just fed him very healthy food and restricted sweets (never excessive) after diagnosis. He was on metaformin.
 
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Oh goodness! Big (((HUGS))) to you! What an awful time you and your family have had and sadly are still having! Yes, stress and shock can both be triggers for diabetes too and lack of good sleep doesn't help which often goes hand in hand with stress of course.
I appreciate that you have a lot on your plate at the moment but when things are more settled you have a right to your test results. I wonder if signing up for the NHS app would give you access to them without having to ask the nurse again. I haven't signed up for the app myself so not sure how you go about it but @everydayupsanddowns started a post about it recently so I wonder, Mike, if you can confirm that this sort of info would be on it and how to access it.... Is it through the App Store.... afraid I am a bit of a dinosaur with phone apps.

I don't want to add to your stress but it is important to be aware that the pancreatitis your son had could lead to diabetes in later life so it is worth keeping that in the back of your mind, should he start to display symptoms. Better to look out for it and it not happen, as to ignore possible symptoms and him end up seriously ill with DKA.
 
rebrascora said:
Oh goodness! Big (((HUGS))) to you! What an awful time you and your family have had and sadly are still having! Yes, stress and shock can both be triggers for diabetes too and lack of good sleep doesn't help which often goes hand in hand with stress of course.
I appreciate that you have a lot on your plate at the moment but when things are more settled you have a right to your test results. I wonder if signing up for the NHS app would give you access to them without having to ask the nurse again. I haven't signed up for the app myself so not sure how you go about it but @everydayupsanddowns started a post about it recently so I wonder, Mike, if you can confirm that this sort of info would be on it and how to access it.... Is it through the App Store.... afraid I am a bit of a dinosaur with phone apps.

I don't want to add to your stress but it is important to be aware that the pancreatitis your son had could lead to diabetes in later life so it is worth keeping that in the back of your mind, should he start to display symptoms. Better to look out for it and it not happen, as to ignore possible symptoms and him end up seriously ill with DKA.
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Yes i’ve got the App. All the test results are on it except the first ones when I was diagnosed and called in immediately. My son is quite closely monitored because of his Crohns. Blood tests every few months etc. I did actually mention it and he had a panic attack, so leaving it at the moment as he’s doing really well with his mental health at present. Yes I know about DKA, because that’s what I had that was making me so ill.
 
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