Hello another Type 2

[Diastard]

Hi,
I was diagnosed T2 in December and measured a HBA1c at 97. I've been at work on it since and after 4 months I was retested with 39.
My biggest problem bringing it down was weight loss, I need about 3000 calories a day with my active lifestyle and having cut carbs it seemed very hard to find that amount without eating a lot of fat. So now I am very lean, as I didn't start out overweight anyway. I'm going to start with the resistance exercise soon, though I'm not young anymore so I don't expect to gain much muscle.

Now I eat anything I like, in moderation, monitoring the effect. Just been on holiday and had pasta, fish and chips, scones with jam, pizza, burgers, ice cream all fairly flat glucose responses. I'm not chancing the very big portions or bags of jelly babies any more but the odd treat is no problem.

Two things that really help for me. A bout of physical activity can help with knocking the top off a spike, and the happiest discovery of all is that having alcohol accompanying meals (in moderation) really does seem to keep the glucose down. I'm sure that I'm not telling anyone here anything new, but it has just amazed me how the a personalised approach is so different from the generic approach suggested by the GP.

 

[cameron]

Hi and welcome the to the forum @Diastard.

That's a fantastic achievement in four months, congratulations in bringing your HbA1c down to a non-diabetic range so soon after diagnosis. I can imagine your diabetes team were very pleased, as were you of course.

Good luck with your new exercise routine. Let us know how you get on! 🙂

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi @Diastard I'm curious as to why you are avoiding fat. Traditional Fat in more traditional quantities probably does less harm than high carbLow Fat eating pushed over the last 50 yrs does.

Most of us eating Low Carb (unless we are still obese) are also eating both more protein and more fat in order to make up the calories lost due to cutting the carbs.

As you probably know, eating Fat doesn't make you fat as much as eating carbs does ( carbs > Glucose which triggers Insulin production. Insulin is the fat storage hormone which drives excess glucose into fat cells and prevents using fat reserves (we are either 'burning fat' or 'storing fat' i.e. our bodies are in 'Winter' or in 'Autumn').
Similarly although saturated fat (= stable fat unlike polyunsaturated which quickly goes rancid, forms dangerous trans fats etc.) does tend to increase LDL Cholesterol it also increases HDL and decreases Triglycerides. And in any case overall people with higher LDL are found to live longer and more people with low LDL suffer heart attacks than those with high LDL, so higher LDL together with higher HDL and low triglycerides is an indication of healthy LDL (for immune system and hormones) rather that oxidised or glycated LDL which is thought to be what may clog arteries.

 

[Diastard]

Hi @ianf0ster, I should give a bit more detail. It's easy to get cheap calories in the form of fat if you buy burgers and sausages from the supermarket. I'm tending to keep those kind of foods for occasional or barbecues, but I'm not averse to fat in itself. I also do eat avocados, nuts and peanut butter as a fat source.

 

[ianf0ster]

If you only consider cheap fats then you are probably getting too many polyunsaturated fats and not enough saturated (= stable) ones. Fried food (unless you fry it yourself) is a particular problem since almost all Take-aways use cheap polyunsaturated seed oils.

If you look at actual fats contained in animals, fish, and traditional veg sources then you will be amazed how they are so similar they are. The problems with fats started with the so called 'vegetable oils' which started to be produced in the late 1800s. These polyunsaturated (= unstable) fats easily turn into 'trans fats' when heated, unlike the traditional cooking fats like Lard, Butter (Ghee) Coconut Oil etc.

 

[Drummer]

I eat fat from slices of beef, chunks of chicken, leg of lamb, from oily fish and I use animal fat or olive oil for cooking.
I avoid seed oils having discovered that removing them from the diet of test subjects reduced heart attacks at more than twice the rate of Simvastatin tablets.

 

[Leadinglights]

I eat fat from slices of beef, chunks of chicken, leg of lamb, from oily fish and I use animal fat or olive oil for cooking.
I avoid seed oils having discovered that removing them from the diet of test subjects reduced heart attacks at more than twice the rate of Simvastatin tablets.

I use either rapeseed oil or rice bran oil for frying as I thought olive oil was not too good for frying but fine for dressings etc. Also use good old fashioned butter, can't stand these low fat spreads. Interesting what you say about seed oils. We have tried avocado oil and pumpkin seed oil occasionally, my OH uses sesame seed oil for making bread sometimes.

 

[ianf0ster]

I use either rapeseed oil or rice bran oil for frying as I thought olive oil was not too good for frying but fine for dressings etc. Also use good old fashioned butter, can't stand these low fat spreads. Interesting what you say about seed oils. We have tried avocado oil and pumpkin seed oil occasionally, my OH uses sesame seed oil for making bread sometimes.

There are lots of factors to consider when looking at the best oils for different purposes. Unfortunately different sources emphasis different qualities as being 'better or worse' than others.
The ones I personally consider important are:
1. Avoid oils high in Linoleic Acid - because this is an Omega -6 and polyunsaturated which is not only unstable but thought to cause inflammation.
2. Avoid oils which are more likely to contain residues of weedkillers (such as from GM crops resistant to glyphosate - these are usually known as 'roundup ready varieties of crops') such as soya.
3. Prefer predominantly saturated fat for cooking at high temperatures i.e. frying. So use animal fats or Coconut oil.
4. Predominantly monounsaturated fats are good as dressings. Olive, Rapeseed (but avoid non- UK or non-EU grown because of the glyphosate problem).
5. I avoid Palm Oil on environmental grounds. Plantations are still created by clear-cutting virgin forest.

Here is a link to a comparison of the composition of various oils ( it suggests limiting saturated fat for the usual cholesterol reasons - which I disagree with): https://www.farrington-oils.co.uk/interesting-oil/comparisons-different-culinary-oils/

 

[Molly M]

Well done @Diastard on the fab HBA1C results - great work

 

[Drummer]

I use either rapeseed oil or rice bran oil for frying as I thought olive oil was not too good for frying but fine for dressings etc. Also use good old fashioned butter, can't stand these low fat spreads. Interesting what you say about seed oils. We have tried avocado oil and pumpkin seed oil occasionally, my OH uses sesame seed oil for making bread sometimes.

I use heavy cast iron pans and cook at low temperatures, and find that light olive oils work well - though I only use a small amount, as the pans are decades old and glass smooth. Most things I fry provide their own fat once they are warm enough, but it is then absorbed by mushrooms and other veges. I wipe the pans after use and turn them over on the gas flame to clean them.

 

[Leadinglights]

I use heavy cast iron pans and cook at low temperatures, and find that light olive oils work well - though I only use a small amount, as the pans are decades old and glass smooth. Most things I fry provide their own fat once they are warm enough, but it is then absorbed by mushrooms and other veges. I wipe the pans after use and turn them over on the gas flame to clean them.

You can't beat a good pan, makes all the difference.

 

[Jenny105]

Hi @Diastard I'm curious as to why you are avoiding fat. Traditional Fat in more traditional quantities probably does less harm than high carbLow Fat eating pushed over the last 50 yrs does.

Most of us eating Low Carb (unless we are still obese) are also eating both more protein and more fat in order to make up the calories lost due to cutting the carbs.

As you probably know, eating Fat doesn't make you fat as much as eating carbs does ( carbs > Glucose which triggers Insulin production. Insulin is the fat storage hormone which drives excess glucose into fat cells and prevents using fat reserves (we are either 'burning fat' or 'storing fat' i.e. our bodies are in 'Winter' or in 'Autumn').
Similarly although saturated fat (= stable fat unlike polyunsaturated which quickly goes rancid, forms dangerous trans fats etc.) does tend to increase LDL Cholesterol it also increases HDL and decreases Triglycerides. And in any case overall people with higher LDL are found to live longer and more people with low LDL suffer heart attacks than those with high LDL, so higher LDL together with higher HDL and low triglycerides is an indication of healthy LDL (for immune system and hormones) rather that oxidised or glycated LDL which is thought to be what may clog arteries.

This sounds like a very complex condition ! Thanks for these outlines. As yet I dont know my status. Helpful like this will smooth the way.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Welcome to the forum @Diastard

Good to have you join us. And well done on your lowered HbA1c - glad you have found a strategy that works for you.

 

[Diastard]

I've been looking at these forums and others since I was diagnosed, and I am aware of the disparity between the experience of some and the guidance decreed by GPs etc, with regard to fats.
The problem addressed by the NHS is that fats along with refined sugar are cheap calories and its easy to eat too many, leading to lipid weight gain. The issue about some fat types being more dangerous than others is where the contention seems to be, though just about everyone agrees that trans fats and their source products are not good, the saturated fat dispute continues and I've seen many arguments both ways, some very erudite through to downright quackery. Some based on real science, some randomly anecdotal.

But we are all different and I don't believe there is a blanket formula that can be applied. Not all of use can be a Keith Richards. An organisation like the NHS can never have the resources to provide tailored treatments, they have to use the methods that produce adequate results for most cases. Unless we ourselves have a lot of money to spend on private treatment then we need to take matters into our own hands - which doesn't come without danger.