• Please Remember: Members are only permitted to share their own experiences. Members are not qualified to give medical advice. Additionally, everyone manages their health differently. Please be respectful of other people's opinions about their own diabetes management.
  • We seem to be having technical difficulties with new user accounts. If you are trying to register please check your Spam or Junk folder for your confirmation email. If you still haven't received a confirmation email, please reach out to our support inbox: support.forum@diabetes.org.uk

Hba1c units?

Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

NotPink

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I just got a 2nd reading from the docs and am confused by initials and readings and what they mean.
My first pre diabetic reading last year was HbA1c 6.00 and now a year later my reading is lower @ HBA1c of 5.4...everyone talks here as if using initials is normal but not to me.
I am discalculae which interpreted means I am dyslexic in maths and calculation.
My accucheck monitor registers in mmol. ??
Since the initial diagnosis I have been really disciplined in what I eat and exercise daily.
I
 
You accucheck monitor is measuring the level at the time and indeed measures in mmol/l but your Hb1AC is the longer term blood glucose level and now is usually expressed as mmol/mol but I think you have been given your result in the old units. The fact you have had a reduction is good so you should be pleased with that. There is a conversion chart somewhere on the site from the old units.
 
Sorry you’ve been finding it all a bit confusing @NotPink

HbA1c is usually given in the new mmol/mol units eg 42-46mmol/mol being at risk of diabetes, and 48mmol/mol or higher giving a diagnosis of diabetes.

In the old days it was expressed as %, where the ‘at risk‘ would be 6.0% - 6.4% and 48mmol/mol would be 6.5% or higher.

There's a converter and some information here

One of the reasons, I think, for switching units was to make more separation between fingerstick BG numbers and HbA1c, which are related, but can’t be directly converted one to the other. Unfortunately it has just caused different confusion!

Well done for the reduction in your A1c though! that’s great 🙂
 
I just got a 2nd reading from the docs and am confused by initials and readings and what they mean.
My first pre diabetic reading last year was HbA1c 6.00 and now a year later my reading is lower @ HBA1c of 5.4...everyone talks here as if using initials is normal but not to me.
I am discalculae which interpreted means I am dyslexic in maths and calculation.
My accucheck monitor registers in mmol. ??
Since the initial diagnosis I have been really disciplined in what I eat and exercise daily.
I
Looking at the converter Martin has put up it looks like a fantastic result for you so all your hard work has paid off. So all you need to do now is keep it up to stay there.
 
The test they are doing involves the red corpuscles in the blood aka haemoglobin in medical-speak. The abbreviation for Haemoglobin is Hb - so that's where that bit comes from. Presumably this partic Hb test has been designated the A1c test. Thank your God that your GP isn't like mine, who still told me the result of my Glycosylated Haemoglobin test after they introduced the new way of reporting the results - so I said, Why have you dredged that old name up from the archives ? Oh I've always just liked the sound of saying it ! replied Dr E with a broad grin! Afterwards said to husband - bet he thinks it makes him sound clever saying that .... and simply forgot I've had diabetes for so long, the twerp!
 
Wow that is a lovely Hb1ac result . You’ve done really well.
You’ve been given your Hb1ac in the old % measurement , I use this conversion chart between the old and the not so new mmol/mol as it is colour coded i to how good your control has been over the last 12 or so weeks
I hope you find it helpful
 
The test they are doing involves the red corpuscles in the blood aka haemoglobin in medical-speak. The abbreviation for Haemoglobin is Hb - so that's where that bit comes from. Presumably this partic Hb test has been designated the A1c test. Thank your God that your GP isn't like mine, who still told me the result of my Glycosylated Haemoglobin test after they introduced the new way of reporting the results - so I said, Why have you dredged that old name up from the archives ? Oh I've always just liked the sound of saying it ! replied Dr E with a broad grin! Afterwards said to husband - bet he thinks it makes him sound clever saying that .... and simply forgot I've had diabetes for so long, the twerp!
Wow that is a lovely Hb1ac result . You’ve done really well.
You’ve been given your Hb1ac in the old % measurement , I use this conversion chart between the old and the not so new mmol/mol as it is colour coded i to how good your control has been over the last 12 or so weeks
I hope you find it helpful
Thank you everyone I did not know whether to be pleased or not as I still get confused with all the details but if you say I am doing ok I believe you. I still get scared if I spike but will feel more reassured from your comments and overall I must be doing something right. That's what I need to know.
It is hard though cos all I think about is fish and chips and fresh cream chocolate eclairs. Yum Yum.
It helps that I am also gluten intolerant and grain intolerant.
So I was diagnosed prediabetic even though I did not eat any gain/wheat cabs for 3 years previous. In fact the clinical dietician said she was surprised and would recommend my diet. I wouldn't, its pretty boring.
I love all the support you get on these forums and always read as much as I can and love to hear your stories and send get well wishes to any of you that are struggling. I like the funny bits too.
Stay safe and well. x
 
Sorry you’ve been finding it all a bit confusing @NotPink

HbA1c is usually given in the new mmol/mol units eg 42-46mmol/mol being at risk of diabetes, and 48mmol/mol or higher giving a diagnosis of diabetes.

In the old days it was expressed as %, where the ‘at risk‘ would be 6.0% - 6.4% and 48mmol/mol would be 6.5% or higher.

There's a converter and some information here

One of the reasons, I think, for switching units was to make more separation between fingerstick BG numbers and HbA1c, which are related, but can’t be directly converted one to the other. Unfortunately it has just caused different confusion!

Well done for the reduction in your A1c though! that’s great 🙂
I know. I went to one of these 6 week NHS courses to help you understand diabetes and the causes.
I was more confused than ever. So was everyone else and when updating from the week before none of us could remember anything.
 
The test they are doing involves the red corpuscles in the blood aka haemoglobin in medical-speak. The abbreviation for Haemoglobin is Hb - so that's where that bit comes from. Presumably this partic Hb test has been designated the A1c test. Thank your God that your GP isn't like mine, who still told me the result of my Glycosylated Haemoglobin test after they introduced the new way of reporting the results - so I said, Why have you dredged that old name up from the archives ? Oh I've always just liked the sound of saying it ! replied Dr E with a broad grin! Afterwards said to husband - bet he thinks it makes him sound clever saying that .... and simply forgot I've had diabetes for so long, the twerp!
He is naughty! My GP does not say anything. Its as if he thinks I can read his mind. Good job you know what you are doing.
 
Because a lot of us need to use fingerprick blood glucose testing monitors because we take medication which can reduce our blood glucose so need to keep a close eye on the results, and also have the 'armful of blood' test at the doctor's at times during any year, when quoting test results on the forum we need to distinguish whether it's the fingerprick one we just did, or the one sent off to the path lab from the doctor's surgery, in order for most of us to properly grasp whatever the other person is trying to convey to us.
 
One of the reasons, I think, for switching units was to make more separation between fingerstick BG numbers and HbA1c, which are related, but can’t be directly converted one to the other.

Sort of a bit, but not really. It was a conscious decision to avoid confusion with HbA1c numbers!

Despite HbA1c methods being used since the later 1970s, the Diabetes Control and Complications Trial in the U.S. only reported in 1993. This lead to standardized testing in the U.S. aligned to its results, whi h wa also what was adopted in the U.K.

Other countries were establishing their own standardization too, notably Japan and Sweden. But while these lead to comparable results between laboratories, difference still existed between the national standards. So in 1995 the International Federation of Clinical Chemistry and Laboratory Medicine formed a working group to establish an international standard. The reference method they produced was approved in 2002.

However the various national standards gave different results to that reference. This was mainly due to the I.F.C.C. more specifically ignoring other forms of haemoglobin that affected the results of the other standards. That said, those standards were still reliable as indicators, but the percentage stated was not a direct correlation to the actual percentage of adult haemoglobin that was made up of HbA1c. For the D.C.C.T.-aligned scale which we used, the results were around 1.5% higher than they should be.

The IFCC-IUPAC Committee on Nomenclature, Properties and Units (IUPAC being the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry) made a number of proposals, including renaming HbA1c to "Haemoglobin beta chain(Blood)—N-(1-deoxyfructos-1-yl)haemoglobin beta chain"! They clearly have a preference for long detailed names, though they did say it could be call DOF Haemoglobin for short.

Fortunately for us, that was rejected by the working group, but they did accept the need to change the system of units to avoid confusion. And there were already three slightly different percentage scales. But someone who was tested as 8.0% on the D.C.C.T.-aligned scale would suddenly find themselves "dropping" to 6.4% when tested on the I.F.C.C. scale, for example. As well as patient confusion with it falsely implying an improvement, it is also causes a big problem in research when comparing data across the two systems if the values suddenly change meaning.

Though the comittee did also include the argument that the similarity of numbers for a glucose level in mmol/L and an HbA1c expressed as a percentage could risk confusion. Although there was no evidence for that. And many countries give glucose levels in mg/dL, so the change in would create a new potential confusion where those scales overlap instead. And as seen on this site, plenty of people still get confused by different scales and they have a similar appearance with both being in "mmol".

The main argument, though, is that the percentage scale was not scientific. A percentage is seen as ambiguous and not encouraged and in scientific terms a percentage is a unit of 0.01. Expressed properly as a fraction of a substance, 6.4% should be a very unfriendly 0.064 and clearly outside the preference for units to fall within a range between 0.1 and 999.

Although some countries started using the new reference method shortly after its approval, in 2007 it was agreed that the I.F.C.C. method would be adopted worldwide. Equations fixed the three main national scales to it and it was agreed both the original and new units would be reported together. That was when the U.K. started using it, but we officially switched to reporting only the I.F.C.C. system a few years later in October 2011. Despite that, clinician and patient familiarity has meant that in practice both systems continued to be used. I was only given percentage units when diagnosed in 2014, and the my local health trust's lab still dual reports, with separate items given using each system.

I believe I have all that right, a combination or memory and looking up the details. I certainly do not remember that deoxyfructose haemoglobin name we escaped needing to remember.

Presumably this partic Hb test has been designated the A1c test.

If you were not put to sleep by history, now it is time for science! Done properly the "1c" part of HbA1c is a subscript, so it breaks down as:

Hb — Haemoglobin.
HbA — Adult haemoglobin,
the most dominant form making up around 97% of the haemoglobin in a healthy adult and which has two alpha and two beta chains, others varients include:
HbA2 — A variant with two alpha and two delta chains.​
HbF — Fetal haemoglobin with two alpha and two gamma chains.​
HbA2 and HbF make up the remainder of haemoglobin in a healthy adult, but there many other less common variants, such as HbS which are sickle cell shaped due to sickle cell disease.​
HbA0 — Haemoglobin that has not been glycated, sometimes called pure haemoglobin.
HbA1 — Glycated haemoglobin, of which:
HbA1a1 — Haemoglobin glycated with fructose-1,6 diphosphate.​
HbA1a2 — Haemoglobin glycated with glucose-6 phosphate.​
HbA1b — Haemoglobin glycated with pyruvic acid adducts.​
HbA1c — Haemoglobin glycated with d-glucose (a.k.a. glucose of dextrose)

HbA1c makes up around 80–90% of total HbA1. The result of an HbA1c test when given as a percentage is (roughly, as explained above) how much of it makes up your total amount of HbA.

Very simplified, an average HbA1c of 6% for a healthy person means that 6% of their adult haemoglobin has glucose attached to it (which would normally be around 5.8% of all red blood cells).

Its equivalent of 42 mmol/mol means that for every thousand moles of adult haemoglobin, 42 of them will have glucose attached.

And to tie it into the above, if you divide the mmol/mol value by ten then you have what the percentage value that it would have been had the I.F.C.C. not changed units. i.e. were the D.C.C.T.-aligned scale said someone had an HbA1c of 6.0%, actually only 4.2% of their HbA had glucose attached.

Sometimes my need for things to make sense does seem to go too far. Though not far enough that I have tried to read about N terminals, where the glucose attaches to the beta chain.
 
Thanks for all that. WoW that is a lot of science, no wonder there is confusion. I found the modern generation actually have no clue what % actually is, let alone multiply 10 by 2 without a calculator and they were Uni students.
 
Wow the is amazing i have read it once twice and I’m now going back for the third fourth maybe fifth time thank you so much for putting all this on it’s very very interesting
 
No matter which way you look at it that is a nice piece of work @Becka. Thank-you!
 
Thanks, although all that really matters is knowing "this number is good, that number is bad, and those numbers are scary." Which is why they also came up with equations to turn accurate values into wrong ones and recommended their use!

The fortunate thing for people like me, who find it easier to understand things I can explain, is that the importance of HbA1c is still relatively recent. So the standardization took place in the internet era, meaning there is a lot of information online that was written during the process.

One thing I did forget to say, though, is that HbA is sometimes called HbA1, which is why the superscript of 1c is important if being technical, as HbA1 and HbA1 mean different things. Though in normal use it does not matter at all.
 
Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
Back
Top