Gutted or what!

[queenbee01]

I've just come back from my three monthly visit to the doctors. My HBA1c has gone down from 93 to 80 and doctor quiet happy about this.
However, I asked him if he could weigh me and according to him I've put on 1 stone three pounds in less than two weeks.
This is impossible and I told him so because the last person to weigh me was the nurse who also had scales in her room and was at the same doctors surgery. He told me that his scales have been calibrated correctly and the reading was what it was. I am gutted as I've only been on this Low GI diet two weeks and according to the nurse had lost 21b in my first week.

The doctor told me that he wants to up my metformin to 6 a day to help me loose weight and I said no because how would I be able to tell if any weight I have lost was down to my hard work, not the metformin? I refused because though I have a lot of weight to loose, I dont want to do it on medication, i want to do it by my own hard work. Other wise if they can make me loose weight by medication, I might just as well stop trying to diet and tell them to get on with it!
Now it's back to square 1, the doctor has told me that it's not good enough to eat a low GI, complex carb diet, I have to count my calories too!
This does actually make sense, but I am feeling shocked and up set with how this meeting went and right now am struggling to find encouragement from his comments! It ended with me asking him to give me another 3 months before he changes my dose of metformin to see if I can loose more weight quicker and keep my HBA1c going down.

And no! I'm not going to comfort eat right now, this is only a hic cup!!

 

[caroleann]

Congrats on your hba1c,but i think you need to invest in some bathroom scales,i got some weight watchers scales and they always tally with the doctors and my consultants.

 

[Ghost Hunter]

Have you asked your dr about referal to Weight Watchers ? Theres a 12 week free scheme which I requested from an appointment with my DR as I too was struggling with my weight and it helped a lot and its not that expensive to keep going after the 12 weeks is up either not when you weigh it up against the cost of your health. 🙂 I too have a WW digital scale and find it doesnt lie ! 😉

 

[DeusXM]

This is going to open up a whole new line of debate, but if you're looking to lose weight and improve your A1C, complex carbs are probably the last thing you should be eating.

 

[cherrypie]

Your HBA1c has come down and that is good but it is still much too high IMHO.

I notice in other posts that you are eating complex cabs but the thing that is missing from your management is a meter and test strips. Whilst complex carbs and low G.I. values of foods is a good start you have to be aware that your reaction to them could be different to others. Rice, regardless of colour, breads, regardless of seed content, pasta, whether white brown or even tricoloured and cereals and biscuits provoke different responses in different people and I think that is where you are going wrong because you have no idea of your individual response to a meal.

It's all very well for a dietitian to give you a list of foods that are "safe" but only you will know by testing what is actually happening.

I am sure that once you get your HBA1c down, the weight will start to move.

Invest in a meter and start testing would be my advice. There is a codefree one that is reasonably priced.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/50-Strips-Codefree-Monitoring-Replacement/dp/B00690WTY0

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Congratulations on your reduction in A1c Queenbee 🙂 Though as others have said, the lower you can get that (slowly and steadily) the better.

Just a few digits off your A1c can have a disproportionate effect on the likelihood of getting any diabetes nasties. Ideally your want it to be down in the 30s and 40s (5's - 6's in old money). Good that your GP is pleased with your progress, and you don't need to throw out everything you have learned so far, but as others have said further refinement of your new food approach in terms of moderating your starchy carb intake will really pay off.

Keep going!

 

[macast]

well done Queenbee for getting your HbA1c levels down

as has already been said.... the only way to know which foods are suitable for you and your diabetes is to test with your own meter

I got a free one at www.Abbottdiabetescare.co.uk with a few strips. I'm lucky enough to get the strips on NHS..... but they aren't too expensive if your doc/dsn won't prescribe them

keep up the good work x

 

[queenbee01]

Reading you all loud and clear, Thank you

🙂OK! Thanks chaps, So I need to buy some scales, Odd really that I never thought of that one before! but then the light only came on three weeks ago when I finally woke up to the fact that only way I was going to control my diabetes was to love the bugga! So this is all still new to me. re: the weight watchers Scales, do I have to be a member of weight watchers to buy them and if not what is the brand name so I can order them? Forget joining weight watchers. I had a really nasty experience at one years ago and I hate the cattle market way you get herded in a line to be weighed in like a prize heffer! Sorry Chaps! I won't go there.
Secondly. I've been asking for a glucose meter for ages and every time I get told that the wee testing strips are fine. For the last 5 days my wee tests have been negative, (2 hours after each main meal). Today I forgot to ask if I could have a meter because everything went "Pete Tong"
Can you buy Glucose meters over the net or from the shops? Silly question, am I allowed to do this off my own back? or do I need medical advice to start? my mum got a meter on the NHS but she pays for her stips (cost ?25 a time), don't know how many strips you get for that, if I can get it on the NHS I will because we just do not have that kind of spare cash at the moment.
Biscuit Barrel, comfort eating danger time over: went for a 3 mile walk instead and in the pouring rain!
I am not going to stumble at this hurdle and I will not relent!!!

 

[queenbee01]

diet of complex carbs and low GI

Mmmmm. before I went to this nutritionist, I ate mixed salad every day with some form of meat, chicken, pork, lamb. I was having granary bread and either egg, tomatoes or bacon on toast for breakfast. I was starving all the time, could not stop craving sweet things and felt tired all the time. Then along came the nutritionist who suggested a diet of complex carbs, low Gi foods. I've been on this diet for three weeks and I feel tremendously well. I dont crave food or sweet things and was happy eating what was on the menu plan. She did not suggest calorie counting, but said go for smaller portions. like a portion of veg is only what you can hold in the cup of your hand. a portion of cheese can only be as big as your thumb, a portion of meat, can only be as big as a fag packet. The diet also included two snacks between meals like 2 oatcakes with humus or vegetable crudities, or a piece of fruit with mixed seeds.
HELP! If this has to change, and I need to calorie count in order to loose weight, what am I going to eat, where can I find the calorific value of everything I eat and just how long is it going to take for me to do glucose tests after I have eaten anything to find out how it affects me. I want to loose weight now not in two years time.
I feel so confused!!!

This is going to open up a whole new line of debate, but if you're looking to lose weight and improve your A1C, complex carbs are probably the last thing you should be eating.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Secondly. I've been asking for a glucose meter for ages and every time I get told that the wee testing strips are fine. For the last 5 days my wee tests have been negative, (2 hours after each main meal).

Wee tests are fine if you only want a very vague idea of whether things have gone really badly wrong at some point in the past.

They are less useful though in achieving what you are looking for - with is GOOD diabetic control and the avoidance of complications. The NHS spends 80% of the diabetes budget on treating complications that are avoidable in many cases. Refusing you strips and/or suggesting you use strips that will only register *anything* if your BGs are damagingly high is less than helpful, but sadly all too common. Seems to come down to purse strings and budget worries rather than treating people as intelligent, motivated individuals. And you are already showing that you are intelligent and motivated.

DUK has some resources for applying more pressure on your GP (), and I've read accounts here of people who have successfully used results from self-funded strips to get a prescription of at least some from resistant HCPs. "Look Dr whoever I get very worried and stressed because I cannot tell what effect the food I am eating is having. I have been using strips that I've bought from my own money in 'this' structured way - the result has been 'this' improvement in my levels. I know that you get extra QoF payments because I am now meeting target 'x' so can you support me by prescribing 'y' number of strips a month to help me to continue"

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/How_we_h...ks/Availability-of-blood-glucose-test-strips/

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Mmmmm. before I went to this nutritionist, I ate mixed salad every day with some form of meat, chicken, pork, lamb. I was having granary bread and either egg, tomatoes or bacon on toast for breakfast. I was starving all the time, could not stop craving sweet things and felt tired all the time. Then along came the nutritionist who suggested a diet of complex carbs, low Gi foods. I've been on this diet for three weeks and I feel tremendously well. I dont crave food or sweet things and was happy eating what was on the menu plan. She did not suggest calorie counting, but said go for smaller portions. like a portion of veg is only what you can hold in the cup of your hand. a portion of cheese can only be as big as your thumb, a portion of meat, can only be as big as a fag packet. The diet also included two snacks between meals like 2 oatcakes with humus or vegetable crudities, or a piece of fruit with mixed seeds.
HELP! If this has to change, and I need to calorie count in order to loose weight, what am I going to eat, where can I find the calorific value of everything I eat and just how long is it going to take for me to do glucose tests after I have eaten anything to find out how it affects me. I want to loose weight now not in two years time.
I feel so confused!!!

I'll leave it for experienced T2s to comment really, but there should be little reason to limit leafy veg and lean meats. Perhaps the weight gain is partly down to your high BG levels? Insulin is very adept at storing excess blood glucose as fat I think. If you can improve your BGs with moderate low GI carb intake and keep your cravings at bay I think weight should come down.

Have you dropped into the Weight Loss Group? They might be able to support you as you go forward

 

[caroleann]

🙂OK! Thanks chaps, So I need to buy some scales, Odd really that I never thought of that one before! but then the light only came on three weeks ago when I finally woke up to the fact that only way I was going to control my diabetes was to love the bugga! So this is all still new to me. re: the weight watchers Scales, do I have to be a member of weight watchers to buy them and if not what is the brand name so I can order them? Forget joining weight watchers. I had a really nasty experience at one years ago and I hate the cattle market way you get herded in a line to be weighed in like a prize heffer! Sorry Chaps! I won't go there.
Secondly. I've been asking for a glucose meter for ages and every time I get told that the wee testing strips are fine. For the last 5 days my wee tests have been negative, (2 hours after each main meal). Today I forgot to ask if I could have a meter because everything went "Pete Tong"
Can you buy Glucose meters over the net or from the shops? Silly question, am I allowed to do this off my own back? or do I need medical advice to start? my mum got a meter on the NHS but she pays for her stips (cost ?25 a time), don't know how many strips you get for that, if I can get it on the NHS I will because we just do not have that kind of spare cash at the moment.
Biscuit Barrel, comfort eating danger time over: went for a 3 mile walk instead and in the pouring rain!
I am not going to stumble at this hurdle and I will not relent!!!

I got my scales from sainsburys for about 20.00 i think,you dont have to be a member to gt them.

 

[Northerner]

You can buy meters and strips yourself. A cheap one (or rather one with the cheapest strips, which is the main consideration!) that a few of our members have been recommending is the SD Codefree Meter - this comes with 10 strips and everything else to get you started, and the test strips are only ?6.99 for 50. Most are at least double that, even on ebay.

 

[Mark T]

You can get books, like the Cals & Carb's book that is very useful for getting a rough idea of the nutritional values for many common foods. The books actually more aimed for those on insulin, but it's still useful.

Perhaps, if the complex carb/low gi diet was making you feel better then perhaps it's better then what you were eating. There's no point in eating something that's going to make you feel really bad and unhappy - unless those effects are only transitory (which possibly might have been the case, I don't know how long you were on the salad/protein diet for).

But....

And a big one...

If you continue to still struggling to loose weight you really ought to take the metformin. It's no failure to have to take medication.

 

[queenbee01]

Whats good for the goose.........

Hello DeusXM, over the last three days, especially since coming back from the docs re his critisim of my low GI Complex Carb Diet and your comment, I was getting more and more distressed and feeling like my endeavors to loose weight, get fit and balance my blood sugars as well as getting my HBA1c readings down. I tried to phone the doctors for advice, but was told I would have to see a doctor as the clinic no longer has a diabetic nurse and the next available appointment would be in 10 days time! Which was pants! what did they expect me to eat for the next 10 days? Anyway the long and short of it is, out of sheer desparation and in need of assurance that I am doing the right thing I rang Poole Hospital and spoke to someone at the Diabetic Centre.

She said that Yes! any carbohydrate whether complex or simple will make you put on weight if you are not eating a balanced diet but my doctor gave me misleading information, in so far as the difference between a Complex Carbohydrate and simple Carbohydrates is what happens to it when you eat it.
A simple Carbohydrate, like, sugar, chocolate etc. is absorbed quickly in the blood and tends to enduce a sugar spike, where your blood sugar level rises. (ok! in small doses if you are having a hypo. but not if you are trying to balance your blood sugars throughout the day. and if you do not use the energy it will go to your liver and be stored as Fat which makes you put on weight.
A complex Carbohydrate is a slow release carbohydrate, when eaten as part of a balanced diet will help to balance your blood sugars because the energy is released more slowly and you are more likely to use that energy througout the day especially if you are following an exercise program and not being sedantry all day. I was also told, after much discussion about the diet that I am on, that there is nothing wrong with it, because it's working for me. I feel Great! better than I have done for years and she said the trouble with treatment of diabetes now days is budgets, regional NHS cutbacks and the plain and simple fact that one mans diabetes is completely different from the next mans and that what suits one person may not suit another.

If I have learnt anything over the last three days, it is that on this site, these forums are only peoples opinions not always fact. This is not a dig at you DeusXM but merely to sincerle Thank you and everyone else for your input, but please, anyone who is seeking advice and information, don't get your self in a tizzy like I did. I came on this site for advice and reassurance, because I could not wait 10 days to discuss my diet and ended up becoming more confused and upset!

This is going to open up a whole new line of debate, but if you're looking to lose weight and improve your A1C, complex carbs are probably the last thing you should be eating.

 

[queenbee01]

EEEee! It's such a lot to take in......

Hello Everydayupsanddowns, Thank you. What's a T2? Any way, in answer to your question, I agree. I have cut out all read meat from my diet and have limited my vegetable intake, I love vegetables and usually eat between 8 and 10 varieties a day but only a small portion of each.
As for the weight Gain, I sincerley do not think for one minute that I had put on that much weight in less than too weeks, I dont think its humanly possible! My firm beileif is that the nurses scales were incorrect and that I am old school, I only know pounds and ounces and stones not kilo grams. When I got weighed they gave me the weight in Kilogrames, I asked what it was in Stones and pounds and I think the nurse made the mistake in converting kilograms in to stones. I know I have not put weight on because I took measurements of all my problem areas yesterday, when I started this venture two weeks ago. (against my planned day for measuring myself) I measured my self all over yesterday and have lost an inch off my bust and an inch of my thighs🙂 How could I have put weight on when I am slowly shrinking?
Re; my BG levels, I get the drift of what you are saying because I had a good chat with our local hospital diabetic centre yesterday, but Once I started this diet, my BG's were never more than 1.8. for the last Six days my BGs have come down to negative and it looks like I have finally hit the head on the nail! 🙂
RE: the Cravings! Since being on this low GI complex carb diet (I think the ratio was a third of my daily intake is complex carb) I feel tremendously well, the cravings for food and naughty stuff has stopped. I feel normal again!

RE: Weight loss Group? I had a really nasty experience with weight watchers once and ever since then can not bring myself to even walk through the door of a weight watchers clinic. I prefer to battle it out on my own and seek encouragement and support from places like this and advice from the horses mouth. Thanks you (sorry it takes a long time to type everyupsanddowns)🙂

I'll leave it for experienced T2s to comment really, but there should be little reason to limit leafy veg and lean meats. Perhaps the weight gain is partly down to your high BG levels? Insulin is very adept at storing excess blood glucose as fat I think. If you can improve your BGs with moderate low GI carb intake and keep your cravings at bay I think weight should come down.

Have you dropped into the Weight Loss Group? They might be able to support you as you go forward

 

[Northerner]

...I asked what it was in Stones and pounds and I think the nurse made the mistake in converting kilograms in to stones...RE: Weight loss Group? I had a really nasty experience with weight watchers once and ever since then can not bring myself to even walk through the door of a weight watchers clinic. I prefer to battle it out on my own and seek encouragement and support from places like this and advice from the horses mouth. Thanks you (sorry it takes a long time to type everyupsanddowns)🙂

Hi queenbee, I suspect you are correct and the nurse made a mistake in converting. I also can only really think in stones and pounds and always have to convert! 🙂

The Weight Loss Group EDUAD (everyupsanddowns) was referring to was a part of our forum:

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=22

🙂

Keep up the good work!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hi Queenbee

T2 = Type 2 diabetic (sorry, lazy typing fingers!)

Interesting that you are now pretty sure that the phantom weight gain was actually just a miscalculation/conversion. Phew! Bet that gave you a shock!

The great news, if you are losing weight, is that that should help your BG levels too.

Good news too that you are seeing negative results in urine now. This suggests that you are staying below 10mmol/L most of the time. Not sure if you have ever been given the NHS guidelines (you may not have as you have been denied access to a BG meter). Here is what they suggest you aim for:

Type 2 diabetes (NICE 2008)
Before meals: 4-7mmol/l
Two hours after meals: less than 8.5mmol/l

Of course you would need a BG meter to see how well your new diet was performing in this regard.

One of the most important things you have picked up recently it seems to me is that everyone's diabetes is slightly different. I think this is why so many people are suggesting that you get a BG meter to test your levesl before and after eating. I suspect everyone here has been given very similar 'starchy carbohydrate' advice as you, and while it seems that it is helping you feel satisfied and avoiding 'lapses' in snacking/eating sweet things it is impossible for anyone (Dr, nurse, dietician or forum member) to tell you what happens in your body when you eat any of those starchy carbs. People can say what seems to happen to 'many' people - but not what happens specifically for you.

I spent 15 years or so without ever really systematically testing what happened after eating many things I'd been told were 'slow release'. I was quite surprised by what I found when I did. Many things sold and advertised as starchy were just as likely to cause a spike as the more obviously 'naughty' ones. Wholegrain breakfast cereals as an example, were particularly bad for me. Two Weetabix with semi skimmed milk act far far more quickly for me than a nice buttery croissant and big spoonful of jam (though that probably has more calories!)

I think that's why so many people on forums like this advise 'eat to your meter'. It's the only way to know for certain how your body is dealing with the food you are eating in BG terms.

I think you've been recommended some meteers where the strips are affordable (if your GP still refuses to help on cost grounds), but many find that their Dr can be persuaded to prescribe strips when the positive effect of their use can be demonstrated. Diabetes UK has hints and tips on getting strips prescribed too.