GP policy on test strips for Type 2 diabetics

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wallycorker

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Hi,

As a Type 2 diabetic, I wanted to start testing but my GP wouldn't prescribe test strips for me. He said that it was sufficient to work on historical HbA1c results - i.e. you find out how badly your control has been over the last three months before the doctor decides to make any change! :(

I begged to differ with my GP and decided to buy my own strips so that I would know what my blood sugar results were on a daily basis.

I've found knowing my blood sugar levels so helpful in making changes to my diet and lifestyle and I've realised some very big improvements in my blood sugar levels because I've had that knowledge. Moreover, I have a very good idea of what my HbA1c results are going to be even before the nurse gives me the actual result.

How typical is my doctor's attitude across the country?

Perhaps it is NHS policy not to give strips to Type 2s?
 
Whenever I've asked for test srtips I've got them. i think the policy chabges from area to area and if you are controled by diet alone or are on medication. A while ago I needed some quickly and bought some, they are very expensive, so perhaps this is why the firms can afford to give away free meters from time to time.
 
I didn't get any testing equipment until I started with insulin injection. And my HbA1c was only tested yearly. My Surgeries thinking was that you can't influence your bg when on tablets. I don't thinks so any more.
 
Sorry to hear about your issues with test strips.

I am lucky enough as I alway get 2 x tubs (= 100 strips) every 8 weeks as part of my repeat prescription.

Also recently, since being prescribed insulin by the consultant at the hospital, I now get 4 x tubs (200 strips) as the hospital people asked by to test up to 8 times a day to see how the insulin is affecting my readings.

One thing the white elephant that is called the Scottish Parliament, has done is to improve the diabetic care since I was diagnosed T2 8 years ago.

Keep pestering your PCT.

Good luck
Hazel
 
im the same i get my test strips if and when i run low same with lancets.

i must say tho i have a friend who is also t2 and she like yourself was not prescribed them . seems its the usual thing depends on your area
 
Its not government policy. Its not NHS policy.

Its PCT (Primary Care Trust) policy.

Increasingly they have to balance budgets and so take a short term view. An extra metformin per day works out at about 30p per month instead, regardless of which is more effective, which effective testing clearly is.

In 2007 there were 2 studies into Self Monitoring of Blood Glucose, the better known of which was by "Farmer et al". These two studies "proved" that SMBG for T2 was a waste of time. If you only read the conclusion of the report then you might also be convinced. The other study went on to demonstrate that 10% of participants became depressed.

When you read further you find that the participants were told NOT to make any dietary changes, but stick to their prescribed diet more closely. It was being used to reinforce the standard NHS dietary advice (as echoed by DUK incidentally). So the participants were FORBIDDEN from using SMBG data to make any changes at all.

Their GPs in all probability ignored the collected data and worked from the A1c instead as you have already discovered.

So nobody used the BG results at all.

So the conclusion of the reports should have read "SMBG has no effect on HbA1c if the testing is done for no reason whatsoever. Also showing people how bad their BG control is without giving them any power to do anything about it makes them depressed."

It has been suggested that at least one of these studies should be recommended for a "no **** sherlock" award.

Interestingly they managed to demonstrate something else along the way, which they did not take any notice of. Despite using testing to get people to adhere more rigidly to the standard dietary advice of the NHS dieticians (as echoed by DUK), their A1c did not improve.

Which accidentally demonstrates that the standard dietary advice does not help glycemic control.

But thats fairly obvious. Its not designed to. Given that carbs raise BG, why would a diet which recommends a lot of carbs help your BG? The standard dietary advice is based around reducing cholesterol. BG and A1c are virtually irrelevant considerations in that dietary advice. You can have retinopathy, nephropathy and neuropathy (blind, amputee on dialysis) just so long as your cholesterol is low and you do not drop dead of a heart attack, apparently.

And if you look into it more closely, a reduced-carb diet has a far better effect on cholesterol than the "low fat" approach. The fact that cholesterol is manufactured by the body from carbs should really be a bit of a giveaway. We're back to Sherlock again.

So the headlines from those two studies was that SMBG does not help A1c. This is used as justification for the statement "T2s do not need to test". Any T2 with 6 hours to spare and some strips can disprove this nonsense quite easily. But its very rare that medics will actually listen.

There's some tips here on persuading your doc to prescribe strips:
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/joomla/blood-glucose-testing
towards the bottom.


Incidentally Steff, its not necessary to use a fresh lancet every time. I change mine about once a year, as do many other diabetics I know many of them T1. So for my first prescription , my doc effectively gave me 100 years supply of lancets 😉

I have still never heard of anyone who has suffered blood poisoning from reusing a lancet.
 
Don't know how far true it is, but I was told you could only have a monitor and strips for free if you were type 2 on medication. The meters themselves are quite cheap, only about ?15.

I'd agree that it is good to monitor your sugars, some things will affect your sugars are more than others (whit bread made with refined flour is more likely to affect than whole meal bread).

Talking of bread, I saw low GI bread in a local bakers, it was ?1.60 and didn't look any different to wholemeal bread...
 
Don't know how far true it is, but I was told you could only have a monitor and strips for free if you were type 2 on medication. The meters themselves are quite cheap, only about ?15.

I'd agree that it is good to monitor your sugars, some things will affect your sugars are more than others (whit bread made with refined flour is more likely to affect than whole meal bread).

Talking of bread, I saw low GI bread in a local bakers, it was ?1.60 and didn't look any different to wholemeal bread...

Not true as I was on diet only from 2004 to Jan 2009, and I was given a monitor and prescribed strips and lancets. I did how ever not become entitled to free prescriptions till I started on Metformin in January.
 
Not true as I was on diet only from 2004 to Jan 2009, and I was given a monitor and prescribed strips and lancets. I did how ever not become entitled to free prescriptions till I started on Metformin in January.

I think it is that post code lottery again, Greenwich PCT gives people on medication monitors, but friends have said they are diet contoled but were not given a monitor.
 
Meters are freebies handed out to surgeries by sales reps. Docs/nurses don't generally hand them out apart from the freebies they get in. Of course the sales reps hand out the freebies so that you will use their strips - which is where the real money is.

Anyone on medication for diabetes gets free prescriptions for life.

I don't use a meter to monitor anything. I use it to learn about the effects of foods on my BG so that I can make appropriate food choices. Thats what Farmer got wrong. It should not be a case of "ooh I am at 12.5". It should be "12.5? I am not eating THAT again! Maybe next time I will have cauli mash instead of potato and see what effect that has"
 
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I have had two meters, both provided by my DSN. Initially she said type 2s on diet alone did not need to test and should rely on A1cs for control. However, I, like VBH use the results to modify my dietary choices, and when I explained this to her she relented and since then I get two tubs every 8 weeks.

Regards Dodger
 
I think its a real shame the PCTs and whoever else dont take the time to speak to people with type 2 diabetes and hear what the last comments say about the usefullness of a monitor and the right number of strips. What annoys me is the adverts that create a stigma about lifestyle factors that can increase the risk of type 2 diabetes. A Lot of money goes into this (and yes, rightly so) but control is so important and anyone willing to look after their diabetes ultimately saves detriment to their own health and the health service in the long run. I feel a lot of empathy for people with type 2 diabetes, it must be extremely frustrating getting these kind of responses from your GPs. I hope it doesnt cause despondancy, keep chipping away.....I hope one day these things change for the better.
 
I don't use a meter to monitor anything. I use it to learn about the effects of foods on my BG so that I can make appropriate food choices. Thats what Farmer got wrong. It should not be a case of "ooh I am at 12.5". It should be "12.5? I am not eating THAT again! Maybe next time I will have cauli mash instead of potato and see what effect that has"

Hi VBH - Thanks for your significant posting earlier in reply to my posting.

As a Type 2 diabetic of nearly ten years, I read literature from the USA regarding controlling diabetes control by diet. Invariably this reading matter told me that I needed to take control of my own situation, in the first place, by testing so that I knew what my blood sugar levels were and what affected them.

I told my GP that I would like to start testing With the intention of doing just what you do - i.e. finding out how medications and different foods and eating patterns affected my blood sugars.

Unfortunately, as far as I was concerned, the GP told me that he wasn't willing to prescribe test strips in my particular case. He thought that it was sufficient to monitor my control by means of three-monthly HbA1c measurements which had been as high as 9.4% - i.e. to learn at the end of three months how bad my control had been before deciding what action to take!!!!

I ignored this advice and decided to buy strips myself and started testing. By using the information gained, I have been able to reduce my last four three-monthly HbA1c results from 8.5% to 6.8% to 5.7% and then to 5.5%. Moreover, I am able to predict quite precisely what my HbA1c readings will be before I am tested. What is more, my finger prick test results tell me that the level is still dropping.

Considering that I believe that I was well on my way to needing to inject insulin and, in addition, developing the quite devastating complications that come with poor diabetic control, I am now optimistic that I can avoid such a situation developing - especially in the short or medium term. Clearly, I do not know what the future holds for me - but at 65 years of age control such as this is effectively a "cure". Morevoer, I consider that I am likely to be saving the NHS a great deal of money by putting off - or, hopefully, not needing - to start injecting with insulin and also by reducing the chances of diabetic complications occuring. Thankfully, to-date after nearly ten years, I have no complications that I am aware of. Long may it stay that way!

In my opinion - the Government/NHS/PCT/GP - whoever is responsible is being very shortsighted in witholding test strips from Type 2 diabetics!!!!!!!
 
I think its a real shame the PCTs and whoever else dont take the time to speak to people with type 2 diabetes and hear what the last comments say about the usefullness of a monitor and the right number of strips. What annoys me is the adverts that create a stigma about lifestyle factors that can increase the risk of type 2 diabetes. A Lot of money goes into this (and yes, rightly so) but control is so important and anyone willing to look after their diabetes ultimately saves detriment to their own health and the health service in the long run. I feel a lot of empathy for people with type 2 diabetes, it must be extremely frustrating getting these kind of responses from your GPs. I hope it doesnt cause despondancy, keep chipping away.....I hope one day these things change for the better.

Thanks for the symathy Sugarbum - it's appreciated!

I agree with all that you write.

I'm one for trying to change things - just as soon as I know where to start the battle! It sounds as though I ought to be starting with the Rotherham PCT - my local MP is on my list too. Possibly also Downing Street!
 
Changing lancets

Incidentally Steff, its not necessary to use a fresh lancet every time. I change mine about once a year, as do many other diabetics I know many of them T1. So for my first prescription , my doc effectively gave me 100 years supply of lancets 😉

I have still never heard of anyone who has suffered blood poisoning from reusing a lancet.

That's what I've read too VBH - but I change mine around once a month.

Because of that lancets do not become a cost issue.
 
I think that an individual assessment should be made in each case to see if they should have any test strips and how many.

Just wondering for those type 2's who are in good control and have had diabetes for a while (wallycorker, VBH, any others) test now. Do you test after tried and tested meals or only for new things exercise/food? how many tests does that work out in an average day?
 
I think that an individual assessment should be made in each case to see if they should have any test strips and how many.

Just wondering for those type 2's who are in good control and have had diabetes for a while (wallycorker, VBH, any others) test now. Do you test after tried and tested meals or only for new things exercise/food? how many tests does that work out in an average day?

Hi sofaraway,

Sometimes I carry out no tests in a day but in some very few cases, especially early on, I have tried to test hourly throughout the day to try to understand what has been happening to my body. Together with the reading of books from the USA I think that I've sorted quite a lot of my situation out. Certainly, one or two years ago when my HbA1c level was in the 8s or 9s, I had absolutely no idea what was going on. Moreover, I had no symptoms. The first I would know of a problem would be when the nurse gave me my reading and told me to see the GP.

In general, firstly, I started testing what I considered to be the basal fasting level - i.e. first thing in a morning and often last thing before going to bed at night (I was surprised to see that morning results were always higher than the night before although I have since read that there are good reasons for this) - also, sometimes before lunch or evening meal. I've never had a major problem with those results so next I started to concentrate on what happens after meals.

I started to test 2 hours after finishing a meal (whenever I remembered and it was convenient) to check that the level is below 8mmol/l - particularly where this was a regular type of meal - i.e. breakfast or lunch. Breakfast is my most regular repeatable meal - cereal with added fruit or berries - or sometimes porridge with added berries. I found that often the result after breakfast was higher than I liked so I reduced the cereal (e.g. 45g to 30g) and added more fruit. That sort of change seemed to help a lot.

I did similar thing at lunch - but in that case moving away from bread sandwiches to salads or soup type meals - plus fruit almost always (apple, pear, orange etc).

My evening meal is more varied and so I've not done very much in that area - whatever my wife offers me then low-fat yoghurt and or fruit (apple, pear, banana or something similar). My blood sugar before the evening meal tends to be at its lowest - sometimes as low as 3.8 or 3.9 mmol/l - and I've never noticed much of a problem in the evening perhaps partly due to that.

As regards, snacks in the evening I have learnt to keep to small bits and pieces that I know do not affect my blood sugars very much - nuts, seeds, fruit etc.

I found that I realised a big improvement in my situation almost immediately I started checking my levels.

However, at the same time I started testing, as a separate exercise, I also started dieting to lose weight by calorie counting. Because of that, I do not know what has had the biggest effect. My GP told me the standard stuff that he expected that my blood sugars would improve if I lost weight. However, the blood sugars seemed to improve straight away - in my opinion, not through weight loss but by lower caloric intake.

Over time I've changed my diet to a very low-fat (almost no animal fat or saturated fat), plant-based, wholefood diet with lots of fruits and vegetables (quite a lot more than the five-a-day) - in addition, I suppose I'm getting more fibre but that hasn't been a major part of my strategy. I've reduced my caloric intake to a quite low level of usually around 1300/day but never feel hungry. In addition, I have reduced my alcohol intake to a very low level. Genuinely, I haven't found any of this a problem - I suppose because I really wanted to sort things out to the best of my ability to avoid diabetic complications.

Since I started eight months ago, I've lost 25 kgs in weight. I'm fully committed to getting my weight down to my ideal weight as defined by the medical people. Moreover, I'm absolutely committed to keeping it at that level - believe me I do not want diabetic complications.

More recently, I've just started to try to keep my post-meal level lower by reducing the amount of carbohydrate in my meal. To effect this I now tend to test one hour after finishing a meal when I expect my level to be around its highest. I'm looking to try to keep that level below 8mmol/l. I'm not far enough into that to be able to tell you how successful this has been.

Overall, I'm quite pleased with what I've been able to achieve. Hence, my looking around and finding this forum to share my experiences with others. However, I'm quite prepared that things might go wrong in the future - and, because of that, I want to learn from others so that I'm at least partly prepared for what setbacks might come my way.

On a separate but not unrelated matter, nine years ago my total cholesterol level was 7 (it had been higher than that in the more distant past!) at my last check - before I changed my diet - it was a very normal 4.2 and I expect that it will be 3 next time round (or may I hope for 2?). Moreover, again nine years ago my blood pressure was a very unhealthy 164/109 - today it is around 105/60 (almost as low as my ten-year-old granddaughter and even better than my sports-mad and very active thirteen-year-old grandson.

All the above numbers include medication - metformin to deal with the blood sugar - simvastatin to deal with the cholesterol - and rampiril and bisoprolol to deal with the blood pressure - plus aspirin to give additional help. However, I'm expecting my GP to make some changes at my next review which is due shortly.

I suppose, I should consider myself lucky still to be here to tell you my story! 😱
 
Interestingly they managed to demonstrate something else along the way, which they did not take any notice of. Despite using testing to get people to adhere more rigidly to the standard dietary advice of the NHS dieticians (as echoed by DUK), their A1c did not improve.

Which accidentally demonstrates that the standard dietary advice does not help glycemic control.

But thats fairly obvious. Its not designed to. Given that carbs raise BG, why would a diet which recommends a lot of carbs help your BG? The standard dietary advice is based around reducing cholesterol. BG and A1c are virtually irrelevant considerations in that dietary advice. You can have retinopathy, nephropathy and neuropathy (blind, amputee on dialysis) just so long as your cholesterol is low and you do not drop dead of a heart attack, apparently.

And if you look into it more closely, a reduced-carb diet has a far better effect on cholesterol than the "low fat" approach. The fact that cholesterol is manufactured by the body from carbs should really be a bit of a giveaway. We're back to Sherlock again.

So the headlines from those two studies was that SMBG does not help A1c. This is used as justification for the statement "T2s do not need to test". Any T2 with 6 hours to spare and some strips can disprove this nonsense quite easily. But its very rare that medics will actually listen.


From my own experience, I agree with all of that VBH.

When I was diagnosed as Type 2 nine years ago, the very pointed medical advice that I received from within the NHS was specifically to eat more meals and to ensure that I ate starchy carbohydrate (bread, potatoes, pasta) at every meal.

Since those days no advice that I have received from anybody working within the NHS - or for that matter in literature from Diabetes UK - has given me a different message

Increasingly, I started to question that advice - often thinking that I may have misunderstood the message. However, I am certain that I hadn't.

It is only after reading US literature (particularly Dr Bernstein's book regarding the bad effect of carbohydrates) and when I started testing my blood sugars (against my GP's wishes) that I began to understand why I had been having problems maintaining blood sugar control (with HbA1c levels such as 8.2%, 9.4%, 8.5% and suchlike).

Moreover, where is the advice from the medical authorities regarding the eating of low-glycaemic index food? If that message is there at all it is diluted and compromised and largely lost.

My experience over nine years as a diabetic has led me to seriously question the advice that we receive from UK sources such as the NHS and Diabetes UK. In my opinion, it is about time that the messages they put out are reviewed and re-issued. Surely, the people at the top of these organisations are fully aware of the factors that lead to poor blood sugar control - they must have read the same literature that I have read - and possibly more. Why do they apparently garble the message that is needed for people to understand how to take control of their diabetic situations?

I am very confused by their apparently well-meant messages - and from messages on this forum I am aware that others seem to be similarly confused!
 
Its not government policy. Its not NHS policy.

Its PCT (Primary Care Trust) policy.


Incidentally Steff, its not necessary to use a fresh lancet every time. I change mine about once a year, as do many other diabetics I know many of them T1. So for my first prescription , my doc effectively gave me 100 years supply of lancets 😉

I have still never heard of anyone who has suffered blood poisoning from reusing a lancet.

Do you sterlise the Lancet ? I reuse mine as I think it's a waste using only once, I use a sterawipe to clean the needle, there the little squares used to clean an area for injections, fold in four and fire the Lancet into it a couple of times, be careful you may prick your finger :D then wipe the end of the "gun" 😛😎
________
 
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Many thanks for your very helpful posts Wallycorker. I've learned more about what is the right food intake for me by reading round the issue, linking in to varous websites and from this forum than from the NHS. Initally, however, I did find the Diabetes UK food store very useful in getting me to think more clearly about what I was eating and things like portion sizes - as a start point it was useful. To be fair - when I did the local equivalent of DESMOND, the dietitician did mention "low GI" but then said that it was too complex for the session and if we were interested we could read further about it.

I think that is where one of the problems for the NHS and Diabetes UK lies as simple messages are often aimed very low and any more is left to a matter of personal choice of what and how the individual wishes to take action. I do wonder if those of us on this forum are more of a vociferous (or is that stroppy?) minority who are not content to accept that doctor/dietitician/research scientist always knows best?
 
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