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Good Carbs/Bad Carbs - Spiking

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mariamack1

New Member
My 12 year old son was diagnosed two months ago, so we are just starting out. We are getting to grips with injections, basic carb counting whereby he has a certain amount of carbs per meal. I have been browsing this forum and have realised that it is much more than just counting how many carbs. We are due to have a carb counting meeting in a month or so. Is this what will be discussed? Should I already be knowing the difference between good and bad carbs and preventing spiking? Our nurse has told us one step at a time, but I just want to get things right for my son. We were told that he can basically eat anything as long as he balances is out with the right amount of insulin. Is this wrong? Or is this just to start with? I don't want to cause my son and problems for the future. Am I just rushing things?
 
Hello Maria
I think the idea of good and bad carbs is less helpful than fast and slow ones. Some spike very quickly (eg. pure sugar) and others take longer (eg. wholemeal bread). Fat tends to slow things down, which can make meals like pizza tricky. The idea is to try matching the profile of your meal (how fast it pushes your sugars up) with the profile of your insulin. Easier said than done and it does seem to vary between individuals. Some people inject novorapid ten or twenty minutes before they eat; some just before and some just after. Others split doses for a higher fat meal, to catch spikes that happen later than usual. Unfortunately it does come down to experimentation, because as usual with diabetes, there's no 'one size fits all' answer. If you test just before you eat and just after, take a note of the results (and of what you ate), and look for patterns over time, you'll begin to get a handle on it.
My son is 15 and eats more or less what he wants, although he avoids Mars bars! He tries to inject just before eating, but if he's not sure what he's going to eat (eg in a restaurant situation) he will wait until after, or halfway through, or inject before the main and then again before dessert. He splits doses for curries and pizzas, and takes extra insulin for large carb loads - it's just what works for him. Hope that's useful. Try not to worry too much as it's early days and your son will gradually work out what works for him. If the majority of his numbers are within the recommended guidelines you're doing really well.
 
Hi Maria,

You are doing really well and showing you want to be pro-active which is great.🙂We are 4 years down the line and we are still finding things that spike! I'm afraid it is not something that stays still - one time you can get a pizza right and the next you wont - for no apparent reason - and children and teenagers produce growth hormones that cause chaos on top! When my son falls asleep I can see on his pump that after 20 minutes or so his hormones kick in and levels start to rise - so it shows you that even if you get the food right other things come into play that you havent bargained for!

Having said all that - you will find some foods that dont spike and are pretty easy to bolus for - but others will always remain a bit of a problem. Fat creates more problems as it stops the food being absorbed - for example we now do 45% insulin up front and then spread 55% over 8 hours as it takes that long to digest - but means we dont get a spike - well this month we dont anyway - next month when he is a bit taller we might do!

Everyone is different though and what spikes one person may not spike another - but fats do play a big part on how much of a spike is caused - that and white flour which makes most people high. Brown bread with seeds in is much better for BG levels for most people. Breakfast cereals for us are really bad for causing spikes but are fine for others - see what I mean? It will take to work out what is right for your son - dont worry though - you will get there and more importantly you will both be learning along the way and be giving the best foundation for your son to start to take on his own care when he is ready - knowledge really is power with diabetes!🙂Bev

p.s. We havent found dieticians a lot of use to be honest as they can only tell you the basics and cant give you an individual diet plan as most dont understand the insulin side of things. They can teach you carb counting which is valuable - especially if using the pump.
 
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Are you using CGM Bev? Interested in how you track the effects of hormones on bg
 
We were told that he can basically eat anything as long as he balances is out with the right amount of insulin. Is this wrong? Or is this just to start with?

It's broadly correct, but your son will find with experience there is more to consider.

In terms of blood sugar control, then yes, it's fine provided whatever is eaten is offset by the right amount of insulin.

However, that doesn't mean it's a free pass to eat whatever he likes. The basic common sense diet rules apply. For instance, eating a whole chocolate cake is a bad idea for a non-D. Being able to inject enough insulin to cover the cake doesn't mean it's a good idea for your son either! You will already know this but it's worth reiterating as having been a teenager on MDI myself, there would be times when I would use the fact I bolused to justify some pretty poor dietary choices. Good habits take time to bed in.

It is also worth noting that insulin technology still has not caught up with the wondrous invention that is the human body. For instance, I could eat a 50g pack of sweets, carb count roughly 45-50g. To me, that'd be technically around 5u of insulin to match. However, what would happen would be this. I would inject and then eat the sweets. The sweets would hit my blood sugar within 10 minutes and prop me up from say 5mmol to 15-20. My BG would then stay that high until around the 45 minute mark where it would start to go down. Probably after 2 hours, I would hopefully be back to normal. Except then I've got nothing left in the tank and the insulin has another hour to run.

So in other words, over a four hour period from eating the sweets, my BG will be extremely high for at least half of the time, normal for about a quarter of the time, and then potentially too low for a quarter of the time. That is obviously not good control.

There is also an extra issue that the more insulin you take, the more fat metabolism you inhibit and the more fat you are likely to store. Foods like chips and crisps don't make people fat because they contain fat. They make people fat because in non-Ds they trigger an insulin response to metabolise the high carbs (by the way, excess blood sugar that isn't immediately needed is turned to fat by insulin) and then the fat content is simply prevented from being metabolised by the presence of insulin, so these foods essentially give you a double hit.

I guess the point I'm making is yes, insulin will allow your son far more freedom to eat what he likes and the idea that he can eat anything and cover with insulin is broadly true. However, given the way medical insulin works, it remains absolutely vital he makes sensible dietary choices 90% of the time.

It also remains absolutely vital he lives as normally as anyone else his age and his insulin should fit around that, rather than vice versa :D
 
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