Freestyle Libre 3

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BadaBing

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Type 1
Hello

Has anyone in the UK had a meeting with their diabetes consultant yet to discuss whether they should have the Libre 3?

If yes, how did the meeting go?

Was it difficult or easy to persuade your consultant that you should have the Libre 3?

If your consultant said you couldn't have the Libre 3 what reason(s) did they give?

Are you using the Libre 3 right now? If so, what are your first impressions of it?

Do you miss having to scan your sensor once every 8 hours?

How are you coping with the extra data the Libre 3 sensor gives you? Is it overwhelming?

Have any of your Libre 3 sensors failed? If yes what happened?
 
BadaBing said:
Hello

Has anyone in the UK had a meeting with their diabetes consultant yet to discuss whether they should have the Libre 3?

If yes, how did the meeting go?

Was it difficult or easy to persuade your consultant that you should have the Libre 3?

If your consultant said you couldn't have the Libre 3 what reason(s) did they give?

Are you using the Libre 3 right now? If so, what are your first impressions of it?

Do you miss having to scan your sensor once every 8 hours?

How are you coping with the extra data the Libre 3 sensor gives you? Is it overwhelming?

Have any of your Libre 3 sensors failed? If yes what happened?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure anyone in the U.K. is using it yet, has it been approved yet? One of our forum members who lives in Germany has been using it, and there has been some helpful discussion here.
 
Why are you focusing on Libre 3?
Do you have a requirement for a CGM?
i struggle to see why the case for a Libre 3 would be different to any other CGM and leave it to your CCG to determine which they are willing to fund.
 
My understanding is the same as @Robin.

With our CCG I hardly expect em to offer such a thing to anyone they aren't forced to. They were several years behind the rest of the country letting any of us have a pump. Yes I know what the new Guidelines say. So what? Are NICE paying them more cash to do it?
 
Hello

Thank you all very much for your replies.

Later this year I will meet with my consultant for the first time (the pandemic is still playing havoc with appointments).

I want to get a sense of just how challenging it is going to be to obtain this device or a.n. other CGM proper in England now the new NICE guidelines and criteria are applicable.

I want to understand just how much of a gatekeeper the NHS in England is going to be.

My understanding (but please correct me if I am wrong) is that if a patient is eligible for a Libre 3 it will be funded out of hospital trust budgets and not CCG budgets. That is why (for the moment at least) the Libre 3 won't be available on prescription.

In my neck of the woods I see my hospital diabetic consultant and they have to greenlight a CGM.
 
BadaBing said:
Hello

Thank you all very much for your replies.

Later this year I will meet with my consultant for the first time (the pandemic is still playing havoc with appointments).

I want to get a sense of just how challenging it is going to be to obtain this device or a.n. other CGM proper in England now the new NICE guidelines and criteria are applicable.

I want to understand just how much of a gatekeeper the NHS in England is going to be.

My understanding (but please correct me if I am wrong) is that if a patient is eligible for a Libre 3 it will be funded out of hospital trust budgets and not CCG budgets. That is why (for the moment at least) the Libre 3 won't be available on prescription.

In my neck of the woods I see my hospital diabetic consultant and they have to greenlight a CGM.
Click to expand...
The new guidelines state that every adult with type 1 is entitled to a isCGM like Libre 1 or Libre 2 . Libre 3 is an rtCGM like Dexcom so you won’t automatically get funding
 
I am curious about your comment....
BadaBing said:
Do you miss having to scan your sensor once every 8 hours?
Click to expand...
and
BadaBing said:
How are you coping with the extra data the Libre 3 sensor gives you? Is it overwhelming?
Click to expand...
Do you only scan your current Libre 3 times a day?
I average 30 scans a day and that gives me the data I need to "Sugar Surf" and average 90% TIR. I absolutely love Libre for this reason.

What extra data does the Libre 3 give? Personally I am more than happy with the Libre 1 and have no interest in upgrading although I am led to believe that it may eventually be phased out, which will be a real shame as I think it is more reliable than the Mark II version.
 
What do you mean by the libre 3 giving extra data? Isn’t it the same amount of data you get?

I’m using (self funded) libre 2 with the Shuggah app which means it just works as a cgm, didn’t need to add anything else to the sensor just downloaded from the App Store. It doesn’t give me extra data though, it’s the same amount of data I just don’t have to spend 5 minutes trying to get my phone positioned perfectly to scan the sensor before I see the bgs
 
Lucyr said:
What do you mean by the libre 3 giving extra data? Isn’t it the same amount of data you get?
Click to expand...
It should give much more information. The graphs (the main 24 hour ones, anyway) are produced from 15 minute readings (so 4 an hour), whereas with Libre 3 you get a reading every minute. (Libre 1 and 2 produce a bit more than that which provides the information needed for the arrows, and maybe in Libre 3 once it gets to Libreview maybe the per-minute data is squashed a bit.)

(I'm not sure how useful the extra data is, but I think people have found it useful.)
 
Lucyr said:
What do you mean by the libre 3 giving extra data? Isn’t it the same amount of data you get?

I’m using (self funded) libre 2 with the Shuggah app which means it just works as a cgm, didn’t need to add anything else to the sensor just downloaded from the App Store. It doesn’t give me extra data though, it’s the same amount of data I just don’t have to spend 5 minutes trying to get my phone positioned perfectly to scan the sensor before I see the bgs
Click to expand...
Hello Lucyr

Bruce has explained brilliantly the difference between the Libre 1 and 2 and Libre 3 (the Libre 3 sends data to your mobile phone every minute, whereas the Libre 1 and 2 send data to a smartphone or other receiving device every 15 minutes).

I don't want to use a third party device or third party software to turn the Libre 1 or Libre 2 into a cgm proper.

The Libre 3 means it is no longer necessary to use third party devices and software any more as the Libre 3 is a cgm proper.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
It should give much more information. The graphs (the main 24 hour ones, anyway) are produced from 15 minute readings (so 4 an hour), whereas with Libre 3 you get a reading every minute. (Libre 1 and 2 produce a bit more than that which provides the information needed for the arrows, and maybe in Libre 3 once it gets to Libreview maybe the per-minute data is squashed a bit.)

(I'm not sure how useful the extra data is, but I think people have found it useful.)
Click to expand...
I am surprised by this as I have xDrip configured to collect data from my Libre 2 (and previously Libre 1) every 5 minutes. It may accept more frequent updates but this is good enough for me.
 
helli said:
I am surprised by this as I have xDrip configured to collect data from my Libre 2 (and previously Libre 1) every 5 minutes. It may accept more frequent updates but this is good enough for me.
Click to expand...
That's the benefit of the Libre 3 helli. It gets rid of the need to use third party software or devices to receive data from the libre sensor quicker.
 
BadaBing said:
That's the benefit of the Libre 3 helli. It gets rid of the need to use third party software or devices to receive data from the libre sensor quicker.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstand my comment.
If xDrip can get data every 5 minutes, Libre 2 produces data this often, not just every 15 minutes.
The OOP2 approach I use, takes the data from the Bluetooth alarm feed so Libre 2 is transmitting it more often than every 15 minutes.
Third party tools do not make up data.

However, bear in mind that no applications are perfect for everyone's needs. That is why third party apps exist. Many people rave about Dexcom but xDrip was initially written for Dexcom because the native tool was not good enough.
I maybe cynical, but I do not expect Libre 3 to do away with the need for third party apps for everyone.

(I also don't have a problem with third party tools if they are the best tools for the job.)
 
helli said:
I am surprised by this as I have xDrip configured to collect data from my Libre 2 (and previously Libre 1) every 5 minutes. It may accept more frequent updates but this is good enough for me.
Click to expand...
I suspect Libre 2 is providing basically the same information as Libre 3 (and it's mostly the software that's different). What I mean is that when you scan Libre 1 or Libre 2 you get 4 readings an hour for the last 8 hours (plus a few extra readings from the last period), but I think that's about the memory in the sensors. With xDrip I can believe you can get more frequent readings (I'm sure they're there, but normally just get overwritten).

(I'm basing that partly on the sports version sold under a different name which is advertised as producing a reading every minute, using a sensor that looks very like the Libre 2 sensor.)
 
helli said:
I think you misunderstand my comment.
If xDrip can get data every 5 minutes, Libre 2 produces data this often, not just every 15 minutes.
The OOP2 approach I use, takes the data from the Bluetooth alarm feed so Libre 2 is transmitting it more often than every 15 minutes.
Third party tools do not make up data.

However, bear in mind that no applications are perfect for everyone's needs. That is why third party apps exist. Many people rave about Dexcom but xDrip was initially written for Dexcom because the native tool was not good enough.
I maybe cynical, but I do not expect Libre 3 to do away with the need for third party apps for everyone.

(I also don't have a problem with third party tools if they are the best tools for the job.)
Click to expand...
I understand. However, I come at this from a very different perspective.

I am a lawyer by training. I am well aware the manufacturer of the libre considers the use of third party software or devices to get at the data the sensor produces may infringe the manufacturer's intellectual property rights in their medical device.

I don't know whether or not the manufacturer's assertions have been tested via court litigation, but I know the manufacturer takes proactive steps to enforce its IP rights.

I have seen on other forums users of the Libre 1 and 2 who have contacted the manufacturer about a technical issue who have gotten short shrift when it became apparent to the manufacturer's customer service people that third party devices/software were being used with the Libre.

For obvious reasons, I would prefer to have the Libre 3 which avoids the issue entirely.
 
Dexcom - Dex rip - xeD rip - xDrip
Dexcom users made xDrip to improve their user experience.

@BadaBing
For obvious reasons, I would prefer to have the Libre 3 which avoids the issue entirely.

For obvious reasons, I would prefer Libre 3 to be supported by 'better software' which would avoid the issue entirely.

Libre 1 used with 3rd party blucon or miaomiao, or Libre 2 used with 3rd party apps already supply full CGM and better software for sensor users.

5 years ago when I first started using the Libre 1, I rang Abbott's support number and asked if I could buy the CGM upgrade. They said 'No.' So I bought a 3rd party Blucon, and did it myself.
Here we are 5 years later and finally the official CGM upgrade is available as Libre 3.

I like technology. I like to listen to music on my Samsung phone, and I'm quite happy to use '3rd party' Sony buds.
I use Libre 1 with 3rd party Blucon for CGM on my smartphone and watch.

I like Libre, the 3rd party apps just raise it to another level.
 
Benny G said:
Dexcom - Dex rip - xeD rip - xDrip
Dexcom users made xDrip to improve their user experience.

@BadaBing
For obvious reasons, I would prefer to have the Libre 3 which avoids the issue entirely.

For obvious reasons, I would prefer Libre 3 to be supported by 'better software' which would avoid the issue entirely.

Libre 1 used with 3rd party blucon or miaomiao, or Libre 2 used with 3rd party apps already supply full CGM and better software for sensor users.

5 years ago when I first started using the Libre 1, I rang Abbott's support number and asked if I could buy the CGM upgrade. They said 'No.' So I bought a 3rd party Blucon, and did it myself.
Here we are 5 years later and finally the official CGM upgrade is available as Libre 3.

I like technology. I like to listen to music on my Samsung phone, and I'm quite happy to use '3rd party' Sony buds.
I use Libre 1 with 3rd party Blucon for CGM on my smartphone and watch.

I like Libre, the 3rd party apps just raise it to another level.
Click to expand...
I hear and understand what you say Benny G.

From what I have read, Dexcom appear to be entirely comfortable with third party devices and/or software being used with their glucose monitoring products.

Abbott are not comfortable, and as I have said, they do assert and enforce their intellectual property rights in their medical devices, as they are entitled to do.

Personally, I cannot take the risk. And there is no need to do so if the Libre 3 is now available (assuming one meets the NICE eligibility criteria).
 
BadaBing said:
I hear and understand what you say Benny G.
From what I have read, Dexcom appear to be entirely comfortable with third party devices and/or software being used with their glucose monitoring products.
Abbott are not comfortable, and as I have said, they do assert and enforce their intellectual property rights in their medical devices, as they are entitled to do.
Personally, I cannot take the risk.
Click to expand...
I recall there was some grumbling from Abbott a couple of years ago, but the EU laws are on our side. Similar protection in the US.

"Perhaps surprisingly, this seems to be covered by the European Software Directive in article 6 which was implemented in member states years back, which allows for decompilation of the code by a licensed user in order to enable interoperability with another application (xDrip in this case)."

To make better software

"Legal issues aside, there is a larger point here. As the success of open source software over the last twenty years has shown, one of the richest stores of new ideas for a product is its user community. Companies that embrace that group are able to draw on what is effectively a global research and development effort. Abbott is not just wrong to bully people looking to derive greater benefit from its products by extending them in interesting ways, it is extremely stupid. It is throwing away the enthusiasm and creativity of the very people it should be supporting and working with as closely as it can."


www.techdirt.com

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Hi again @BadaBing,
I think the Libre is well worth a trial, if you haven't already taken advantage, 1 free sensor

sample.freestyle.abbott

Sampling | Diabetes Care | Abbott

Claim your 15 day free sensor if you have diabetes and have not tried the FreeStyle Libre 2 plus sensor before
sample.freestyle.abbott sample.freestyle.abbott

If you can get a libre 2 prescription from your consultant, I would assume that changing your prescription later to the Libre 3 would be a logical progression
 
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