First Post - Newbie

[Ashwuk]

Hi All,

New person here. Only diagnosed a week ago. Immediately put on tablets and told no fruit or bread ever again! Which is scary so confused about what I can and can't eat. Waiting to go for my next blood test to confirm. Was meant to be a fasting one this morning but stupidly I ate food!

I am just clueless right now as to what I can eat etc. Taking one tablet a day and increasing to 2 a day and then 3 a day in a few weeks. No idea what my levels are Doctor didn't tell me and I was to much in shock to actually ask!

My diet over the last week has dramatically changed. No chocolate or bread fruit potatoes etc for a week. Which for me is such a change. I realise they are probably just trying to stabilise me and then I can work from there but I just feel lost.

I didn't have any symptoms or at least I didn't realise I had but my partner did always felt fine!

Sorry for the long post!

 

[Nayshiftin]

That's a short post compared to mine lol. Welcome, this is a friendly site, or they just really pamper to me so you will get help here. Unsure why they say no to lots of things however I do not know how high your HbAc1 is etc and we are all unique. I guess they are trying to reduce and get you to feel better. There are lots of meal plans on here and as you read many low-carb diet people steer you in the right direction. My advice is it's a shock and this is a journey so recap that you have diabetes and I'd say you need to be honest and help yourself stay healthy. Many here help us do that and there are reams to read if you want or just dip in here and there. all the best and Welcome one step at a time

 

[Docb]

Hi @Ashwuk and welcome to the forum. Your current state of confusion is pretty standard for newly diagnosed T2's. If you read around the forum and check out the learning zone on the red tab above things will begin to come into perspective, but above all ask us questions about anything you do not understand. Nothing is considered silly or trivial on here.

Can I suggest that you call your surgery and ask for your HbA1c result, it will be that reading which led to your diagnosis - it will be a number somewhere between 48 and 100+. That will tell you how far into diabetes territory you are and will give you the first indications of what steps you need to take to get things under control.

Also, I am assuming that you are taking metformin. That medication has a reputation for causing stomach upsets. Most don't have a problem, but if you are one of the unlucky ones and it does not settle down in a few days, pester your GP for an alternative.

 

[Ljc]

Hi welcome to the forum. Who was it who told you no fruit ever again ? ,
Bread I can understand sort of but their are lower carb bread options .

Yes fruit contains fruit sugar (fructose) anything with berry as part of its name is often tolerated better than those luscious juicy higher carbohydrates, it’s carbohydrares we can’t handle so well anymore.
Some medics and nurses give us the you must /must not eat rules as though they are set in stone , the trouble with diabetes is, it can’t read so it doesn’t know it should be following those rules
What I am trying to say in a silly way is, we are aall different in how our body will cope with certain foods, ie porridge is a good example , normal porridge, rolled oats , is very healthy, yes. But some of us see a huge spike in our glucose levels when we self test.
Depending on my glucose levels at the time , I can eat one pear or a peach without needing to inject any insulin. A huge bowl of strawberries doesn’t affect me at all , others can’t though.

Ask all the questions you you need to about diabetes, we will do our best to help based on what has worked for us.

You should find these helpful

Maggie Davey's letter to newly-diagnosed Type 2s

This disappeared from the original site, but @Alan S has managed to track it down. Rather than risk losing that link I'm posting the text here. I've had to split it over a few posts, as there is a size limit for each post and it wouldn't all fit in one! :) An open letter to the newly-diagnosed...

forum.diabetes.org.uk

Many have found this book helpful, not sure if it’s the latest edition

First Year: Type 2 Diabetes: An Essential Guide for the Newly Diagnosed (Marlowe Diabetes Library): Amazon.co.uk: Becker, Gretchen: 9780738218601: Books

Buy First Year: Type 2 Diabetes: An Essential Guide for the Newly Diagnosed (Marlowe Diabetes Library) Illustrated by Becker, Gretchen (ISBN: 9780738218601) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[ToughButtercup]

... but I just feel lost. ...

Welcome to the feeling lost club.
Its lost and stressed for me. It feels really strange at the moment - yes I can manage this challenge one minute - closely followed by - I'd really like a chocolate snack and piece of fruit - the next.

I need to get myself organised somehow. My surgery has just written to me offering a place on a National Diabetes Programme. And that - from what I can tell - appears to be well organised. Its called the Healthier You NHS National Diabetes Prevention Programme.
Might your surgery be able to refer you on to the same ? Worth asking isn't it?

 

[Leadinglights]

Hi All,

New person here. Only diagnosed a week ago. Immediately put on tablets and told no fruit or bread ever again! Which is scary so confused about what I can and can't eat. Waiting to go for my next blood test to confirm. Was meant to be a fasting one this morning but stupidly I ate food!

I am just clueless right now as to what I can eat etc. Taking one tablet a day and increasing to 2 a day and then 3 a day in a few weeks. No idea what my levels are Doctor didn't tell me and I was to much in shock to actually ask!

My diet over the last week has dramatically changed. No chocolate or bread fruit potatoes etc for a week. Which for me is such a change. I realise they are probably just trying to stabilise me and then I can work from there but I just feel lost.

I didn't have any symptoms or at least I didn't realise I had but my partner did always felt fine!

Sorry for the long post!

You have been given lots of useful suggestions by some of the others but The blood test you were having today if that was a repeat of the HbA1C it does not need to be fasting so you may be still OK to have it. Otherwise they may just be wanting to get a base line for a morning blood glucose level. But really it is the HbA1c which is the diagnostic test.

 

[Ashwuk]

Hi @Ashwuk and welcome to the forum. Your current state of confusion is pretty standard for newly diagnosed T2's. If you read around the forum and check out the learning zone on the red tab above things will begin to come into perspective, but above all ask us questions about anything you do not understand. Nothing is considered silly or trivial on here.

Can I suggest that you call your surgery and ask for your HbA1c result, it will be that reading which led to your diagnosis - it will be a number somewhere between 48 and 100+. That will tell you how far into diabetes territory you are and will give you the first indications of what steps you need to take to get things under control.

Also, I am assuming that you are taking metformin. That medication has a reputation for causing stomach upsets. Most don't have a problem, but if you are one of the unlucky ones and it does not settle down in a few days, pester your GP for an alternative.

Thank you, yes i do need to speak to them about what the result was, I will try and ring them today. Yes i am on metformin and i have been lucky it hasnt upset my stomach at all.

 

[adrian1der]

Welcome from me as well @Ashwuk Like @Ljc I strongly recommend Gretchen Becker's book. I read it cover to cover.

 

[Leadinglights]

Welcome to the feeling lost club.
Its lost and stressed for me. It feels really strange at the moment - yes I can manage this challenge one minute - closely followed by - I'd really like a chocolate snack and piece of fruit - the next.

I need to get myself organised somehow. My surgery has just written to me offering a place on a National Diabetes Programme. And that - from what I can tell - appears to be well organised. Its called the Healthier You NHS National Diabetes Prevention Programme.
Might your surgery be able to refer you on to the same ? Worth asking isn't it?

Some of these programs are useful in that they give some help with the basics but have not always caught up with the thinking that it is all carbohydrates which are the problem for people with diabetes and recommend swapping to wholemeal, wholegrain, brown varieties of bread, pasta, rice and cereals whereas there is little difference in the carb value, it is just they metabolise more slowly. They also promote low fat but generally fat is not a problem even for people who need to lose weight.
So good yes, but approach with caution for what they suggest for dietary changes. In the end you have to decide what works for you and will be sustainable. You have to enjoy your meals otherwise you will stray back to bad habits. Something which was the norm may just have to be the occasional treat.

 

[Ashwuk]

Hi welcome to the forum. Who was it who told you no fruit ever again ? ,
Bread I can understand sort of but their are lower carb bread options .

Yes fruit contains fruit sugar (fructose) anything with berry as part of its name is often tolerated better than those luscious juicy higher carbohydrates, it’s carbohydrares we can’t handle so well anymore.
Some medics and nurses give us the you must /must not eat rules as though they are set in stone , the trouble with diabetes is, it can’t read so it doesn’t know it should be following those rules
What I am trying to say in a silly way is, we are aall different in how our body will cope with certain foods, ie porridge is a good example , normal porridge, rolled oats , is very healthy, yes. But some of us see a huge spike in our glucose levels when we self test.
Depending on my glucose levels at the time , I can eat one pear or a peach without needing to inject any insulin. A huge bowl of strawberries doesn’t affect me at all , others can’t though.

Ask all the questions you you need to about diabetes, we will do our best to help based on what has worked for us.

You should find these helpful

Maggie Davey's letter to newly-diagnosed Type 2s

This disappeared from the original site, but @Alan S has managed to track it down. Rather than risk losing that link I'm posting the text here. I've had to split it over a few posts, as there is a size limit for each post and it wouldn't all fit in one! :) An open letter to the newly-diagnosed...

forum.diabetes.org.uk

Many have found this book helpful, not sure if it’s the latest edition

First Year: Type 2 Diabetes: An Essential Guide for the Newly Diagnosed (Marlowe Diabetes Library): Amazon.co.uk: Becker, Gretchen: 9780738218601: Books

Buy First Year: Type 2 Diabetes: An Essential Guide for the Newly Diagnosed (Marlowe Diabetes Library) Illustrated by Becker, Gretchen (ISBN: 9780738218601) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

Hi,

It was the doctor who told me this, it sounded silly at the time, but i just assumed it was a short term thing whilst i "settled down"

Thank you for those links i will take a look 🙂

 

[Ashwuk]

Welcome to the feeling lost club.
Its lost and stressed for me. It feels really strange at the moment - yes I can manage this challenge one minute - closely followed by - I'd really like a chocolate snack and piece of fruit - the next.

I need to get myself organised somehow. My surgery has just written to me offering a place on a National Diabetes Programme. And that - from what I can tell - appears to be well organised. Its called the Healthier You NHS National Diabetes Prevention Programme.
Might your surgery be able to refer you on to the same ? Worth asking isn't it?

Its horrible isnt it? I am sure it will get better with time and once i know what i can and can't do. I am sure you will be fine to!

I am awaiting on my surgery to make my appointment with their "health and wellbeing" person, thats the new term for it apparently!

 

[Ashwuk]

Some of these programs are useful in that they give some help with the basics but have not always caught up with the thinking that it is all carbohydrates which are the problem for people with diabetes and recommend swapping to wholemeal, wholegrain, brown varieties of bread, pasta, rice and cereals whereas there is little difference in the carb value, it is just they metabolise more slowly. They also promote low fat but generally fat is not a problem even for people who need to lose weight.
So good yes, but approach with caution for what they suggest for dietary changes. In the end you have to decide what works for you and will be sustainable. You have to enjoy your meals otherwise you will stray back to bad habits. Something which was the norm may just have to be the occasional treat.

That is the bit i want to try as well and see if it works for me, again Doctor told me no pasta ever again too!

 

[ToughButtercup]

I don't associate the NHS with differing opinions on nutrition. Bad enough with food manufacturers either lying, or lying by omission, or using weasle words and phrases.

I need to wake up don't I?
🙄

 

[rebrascora]

I don't associate the NHS with differing opinions on nutrition. Bad enough with food manufacturers either lying, or lying by omission, or using weasle words and phrases.

I need to wake up don't I?
🙄

The problem is that there was some rather dodgey research done about 70 years ago by a guy called Ancel Keys. Our governmental low fat dietary advice was based almost entirely on that research which suggested that fat was linked to Cardiovascular disease. It is now known that the research was flawed and partially cherry picked to obtain the results it did, but a huge and very powerful and very profitable food industry is based on that low fat advice which has essentially taken out the natural fat and substituted cheap carbs to make those low fat foods taste more palatable. Yoghurt is one of the obvious foods because low fat yoghurt is sour and runny, so they add sugar and starches to sweeten and thicken it when natural whole milk yoghurt is very enjoyable on it's own...... except that we have become so used to eating all these sweetened products that our tastes have changed and we want more and more sweetness. Once you break the cycle and go back to eating natural wholemilk yoghurt (Greek style is particularly nice) you start to understand how the basic product has been corrupted by the food industry. Many of us who follow a low carb higher fat diet for our diabetes (and ignore the NHS advice about eating whole grains and low fat) find that we feel healthier, we lose weight and our cholesterol levels even reduce.
Sadly the NHS is stuck with continuing to promote a low fat diet because that is what they have told us is healthy for the past 50+ years and they still believe it will reduce CV disease, even though cardiovascular disease has increased and obesity and diabetes is at epidemic proportions. The increased sugar and carbs are what is making people obese and diabetic and until you start to avoid those high carb foods you have no idea how much marketing is pushed at you to consume them. The first few weeks of going low carb was a real eye opener for me because I was struggling so much to avoid temptation and they were everywhere. I was horrified by the number of adverts on TV, bill boards and shops which were geared solely at selling these unhealthy high carb foods and no one is even trying to legislate against it.

 

[Leadinglights]

That is the bit i want to try as well and see if it works for me, again Doctor told me no pasta ever again too!

What I was trying to say was that the wholegrain versions were just as bad as the white versions and should be either avoided or only had in reduced portions, but it will really depend on what your body can tolerate. What would be regarded as a normal portion of pasta or rice would represent a high carb meal especially when you add the other stuff like the sauce.

 

[ToughButtercup]

...
Many of us who follow a low carb higher fat diet for our diabetes (and ignore the NHS advice about eating whole grains and low fat) find that we feel healthier, we lose weight and our cholesterol levels even reduce.
Sadly the NHS is stuck with continuing to promote a low fat diet because that is what they have told us is healthy for the past 50+ years and they still believe it will reduce CV disease, even though cardiovascular disease has increased and obesity and diabetes is at epidemic proportions.

Well, @Leadinglights , you've really got my attention now.

Could you point me to some Peer Reviewed research that discusses relative merits of the two approaches Type 2 diabetes reduction, please?

 

[trophywench]

The largest UK resource I'd immediately wish to refer anyone to peruse regarding peer reviewed merits of this or that, is the Diabetes UK forum.

Far as I know - nobody has yet analysed the last 20yrs of self experimentation though - so if you wish to fund this I'm sure DUK would be more than happy to take you up on that. But - unless anyone can make money out of it, why would they offer to fund it? You know, spend money now to save money later down the line treating complications. Doesn't really happen, does it? Not when you can make money providing drug treatments for the complications.

Government won't cos they aren't in the business of planning for the future ...... only dealing with what's on the plate right now this minute and too busy blaming someone else for heaving them with the legacy of jam yesterday jam tomorrow and never apparently jam today. Whereas this household has had some jam today - cos we previously invested in a jar of it in the secure knowledge that we were also investing in scones!

Vicious circles!!!!

 

[ToughButtercup]

@trophywench , it seems to me that @Leadinglights has summarised two competing approaches to managing diabetes.
When interesting things like that happen, it is a good idea to read academic articles that discuss the issue: in this case why low carb high fat, when the NHS guidance differs from that approach?

Peer Review is a formal academic process which attempts assure the quality of arguments and method.

 

[trophywench]

Thanks for precising that info for those uninitiated in such things @Tough Buttercup - can one assume you have already done a search on Google Scholar too? - in which case I don't personally know where else you could look for the research you wish to find, myself.

 

[rebrascora]

@ToughButtercup
Firstly you have to understand why research on this subject is difficult.... Firstly funding since it is not in any of the pharmaceutical or food industry companies interests to fund it and secondly getting people to follow a set diet because the majority of people will cheat/lapse etc and it is unethical to impose eating restrictions on people in institutions .... it was done many years ago I believe with mental asylum patients.

The NHS's need to endorse eating wholemeal carbs comes from their need to promote low fat.....
There are only 3 sources of calories.... protein, fat and carbs. If you eat low fat and low carb, you have to eat more protein to survive but that can put extra strain on the kidneys. Also 40% of protein breaks down to produce glucose in the absence of enough carbohydrate, so whilst it is much slower release glucose it still has an impact (I have to inject insulin to cover the protein I eat a lot of the time) Only 10% of fat breaks down into glucose and if you were to eat enough fat for that to have an impact you would probably be sick. because unlike carbs which break down quickly to give you a BG high and then low which males you want a snack 2 hours later, fat takes about 2 hours to start breaking down and makes you feel full and is too rich to eat huge amounts.... so it is self limiting. Unfortunately the NHS along with many governments around the world, bought into the low fat advice which came out of the research done by Ancel Keys approx. 70 years ago which is now strongly suspected to be flawed at best, cherry picked (ie deliberately biased) at worst to come to that conclusion and I believe was sponsored by the American Grain association or there was at least some connection. Anyway, there was enough power and lobbying to push the "fat causes cardiovascular disease" conclusion of the research to result in the huge low fat food industry we have today and the rapidly increasing obesity and diabetes epidemics we are part of.

If it helps, I was extremely sceptical of eating more fat but I could see from my BG meter that I needed to eat less carbs. I spent 6 weeks stripping almost all the carbs from my diet in an attempt to bring my levels down into range but also following a low fat low salt no alcohol way of eating. It was like eating cardboard but still I was reluctant to start eating fat because it was against what my health care professionals were telling me, but eventually after watching a few TED talk presentations on You tube together with my Dad eating a high fat diet and having the heart of an ox even when his lungs gave out, I decided to give it a go and I am so pleased I did because I now enjoy my food and can control my cravings for carbs and feel fitter and heathier and younger than I have for 20+ years and my cholesterol has reduced very slightly despite eating much more fat. My weight is stable and my consultant is happy. All I can say is that I am pleased that I was prepared to experiment on myself, because like many others a LCHF way of eating works for me and whereas previously I have yoyo dieted I feel confident that I can sustain this way of eating for the rest of my life.... unless I am hospitalized, as hospital food is notoriously not diabetic friendly.

Anyway, that is my take on it having done a little bit of google research on it a couple of years ago. Feel free to go your own but peer reviewed science is thin on the ground for the reasons I mentioned.