First aid training.

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hemase

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Type 2
This is a question I meant to post a while back but have never got round to. I did a first aid course recently, when it got to the part about diabetics the instructor advised that if a person was having a hypo/hyper than you were to give them a glass of sugary water or chocolate.
I was a little unsure about this, it was my understanding that if a person was having a hyper their blood sugar was too high. Would giving them sugar not be detrimental rather than helpful? I asked the question but was just told that was what his company reccomended. What do you guys think?

Its not how hard we hit, its how hard we can get hit and keep moving forward. How much we can take and keep moving forward.
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Hypo needs fast acting sugar, like lucozade or jelly babies, not chocolate as it works too slowly. Sugary water could be given, but it's important that the amount of sugar is measured so as not to overtreat the hypo. A hyper does NOT need additional carbs or sugar, but exercise to reduce levels (as long as not too high i.e. below 17 mmol/l)
 
I did a first aid course a few years back,they said the same thing to me and I was shocked. I questioned it and the teacher said it was because it can be hard to tell if they are high or low as they will be acting odd (which I suppose might be true in some cases) so its best just to give them sugar either way - because if they are low it will save them and if they are high it won't do any harm - !!!!!
The teacher was a former ambulance worker!!!
 
I suspect that the advice is based on you not being able to tell whether they are hyper/hypo and in which case whilst giving someone who is hyper sugary water could hinder their recovery it could be critical to someone who is hypo.

Not sure many places have supplies of sugary water on hand - some companies give their firstaiders hypostop (I think its called). I was told by a DSN that for most people chocolate took a long time to start raising the sugar levels.

Ha Lauren just saved this and seen we said the same thing
 
Lauren said:
I did a first aid course a few years back,they said the same thing to me and I was shocked. I questioned it and the teacher said it was because it can be hard to tell if they are high or low as they will be acting odd (which I suppose might be true in some cases) so its best just to give them sugar either way - because if they are low it will save them and if they are high it won't do any harm - !!!!!
The teacher was a former ambulance worker!!!
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But if, let's say, they were hyper and insulin-dependant with ketones, giving them sugar (e.g. full-sugar coke when they asked for diet😉), this could be very dangerous and trigger DKA!😱
 
I've had similar experiences on first aid courses, when I've questioned it their theory has been much like the above, that if it's a hypo sugar would be needed and if it were a hyper it 'wouldn't make much difference anyway as their sugar is already high'. Although I can understand where they were trying to come from but needless to say I also gave them my opinions too!
 
When I was working I kept a meter in my desk - and also some supplies in case I went hypo. I made sure that a couple of my colleagues knew what to do should I have "a funny turn", though I am not sure whether they would have felt comfortable taking my blood.

I guess the question is what should a first aider do if they do not have the means to test blood sugar. I guess they could advise them to smell the breath and not to give the sugary item if it smells of peardrops but to call an ambulance.
 
Northerner said:
But if, let's say, they were hyper and insulin-dependant with ketones, giving them sugar (e.g. full-sugar coke when they asked for diet😉), this could be very dangerous and trigger DKA!😱
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exactly! As someone who has been hospitalised 31 times for DKA this advice made me feel somewhat miffed!
 
From the responses it looks as though first aid courses may need to think about the advice they are giving. To say that if their blood sugar is already high so more wont hurt is bordering on stupidity- its like saying that house is already on fire so it doesnt matter if we throw some petrol on it.


Its not how hard we hit. its how hard we can get hit and keep moving forward. How much we can take and keep moving forward. Thats how winning is done.
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i always thought if came to it it was incase your blood sugar is too low that you are in risk of going into a coma! at the end of the day theres damage at both sides hypo and hyper from the hospital point maybe its easier to get blood sugar down than dealing with a person in a coma.

I am NOT from a medical background and has just completed a first aid course and understand the grey area but that the same applies with anginas, heart attacks etcs as well everyone can only work with whats in front of them whether they are joe bloggs or a first aider.

first set of rules are assess the situation and see if you are capable to help
do no harm to yourself and do not inflict further harm to the patient.
if in doubt call 999.

any questions i would ask the medical professions
 
The last person in our house to do a first aid course was grown up son. He asked because I am diabetic and they told him he had to use his own judgement since he appeared to have some knowledge.

I'm not sure what to do if someone is hyper, but if they are hypo then fast acting sugar is best. If I am am getting high I go for a walk or hoover or get up and be active for a while.
 
topcat123 said:
i always thought if came to it it was incase your blood sugar is too low that you are in risk of going into a coma! at the end of the day theres damage at both sides hypo and hyper from the hospital point maybe its easier to get blood sugar down than dealing with a person in a coma...
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You can go into a coma at either extreme - hypo or hyper. At the hyper end it is either DKA or HONK (Diabetic Hyperosmolar Non-ketotic Syndrome). The latter affects mainly Type 2s.
 
sorry i knew about low bs that you could go into a coma but not high so from personal and also doing a first aid course ones hopes that i would be in hospital at either ends before that happens but its making me think about why doing first aid in the first place
 
I've heard the same thing as Topcat - but mainly that it's about speed. If you're that out of it that you can't tell someone what's wrong, someone should have already called 999, and sugar could bring you up out of a hypo quickly. If you're hyper, then yes the sugar will put you up, but it's not going to tip the balance over into DKA in the time it takes for an ambulance to come, and when it does, they can then get you to hospital and start bringing you down.

My understanding was that a hypo is more likely to kill you quickly than DKA, so it's pretty much down to going with the least risky option. 🙂
 
topcat123 said:
sorry i knew about low bs that you could go into a coma but not high so from personal and also doing a first aid course ones hopes that i would be in hospital at either ends before that happens but its making me think about why doing first aid in the first place
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I think that the thing about a hypo is that, without action, you're going to drop and keel over fairly quickly. From what I remember, my hyper symptoms developed much more slowly and were quite different from what I now know to be hypo symptoms. I imagine it would be extremely difficult to teach someone distinguish them on a first aid course. Having thought about it, I guess the advice of giving sugar is correct, since it's likely the ambulance would be on its way for either case. Tricky!
 
I renewed my first aid cert not long before I was diagnosed and diabetes wasn't even mentioned until I brought it up. If someone is hyper as Northe says, exercise is best so long as they're not above 17. If they are then, it would depend on their mental state, if they're clear headed advise them to consult their medical team asap. If they're confused or distressed, call an ambulance.
 
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