First aid training

[MeganN]

Hi all

Bit fuming after attending a course top up for first aid in the workplace.
Luckily the people that went on the course with me from our work were eight family or very close friends because we all asked to go together. We were in a larger group of other people from other places too.

We asked the first aid teacher if they could also provide us with some info on first aiding a diabetic as I am one and I have a healthy fear that if I had a problem some do gooder first aider could inject me with my insulin and possibly kill me by thinking it was an epi pen or something.

He did tell everyone that under no circumstance should any first aider give a person any medication whatsoever which did make me feel better.

However, his explaination of diabetes was appalling and left me fuming.
He said there was not real difference between type one or two really. That it didn't matter if the person took tablets or insulin and exercise was the main most important treatment. Also apparently this disease is perfectly easily manageable and if a diabetic runs into any hypo problem it was bought on themselves due to mis management of an easy to manage condition.

Well, I could have punched the bloke. Was pleased that I managed to keep my mouth producing civil language and calmly explained that a hypo is not necessarily the persons fault as the factor that cause them constantly change and that if I did have one I very much hoped that I was not unfortunate enough to have him treating me.

My friends and family also backed me up and dissed his comments about it being easily manageable and problem free disease.

Still annoyed about it though but glad my friends piped up in my defence. He was one f those people that you would have liked to give the big d to for a couple of months just to see how managable he found it himself!

 

[Northerner]

How could he stand in front of you and say such things? 😱 I wonder where he got his 'information' - was it based on experience of relatives, speculation or official training? He needs a Diabetic Tamagotchi! 😱 😉

 

[Tina63]

I last did a first aid course 2.5 years ago only a few weeks after my son's diagnosis. I remember then being quite taken aback by the knowledge, or lack of, by the trainer with regards to diabetes. My son had only been diagnosed a few weeks at that point. I am due to go again before March next year, so I will go armed and ready for a fight this time! I can't remember too much, but they had an Epi pen to show us, and seemed to imply we should use a diabetic pen the same way. The trainer did ask if anyone had any personal experience, and my friends mentioned my son was newly diagnosed so the trainer really deferred to me, but I was too embarrassed and too new to it to talk much, but next time around I will pay 100% attention and put them straight! Scary though, isn't it?

 

[LeeLee]

Do you think DUK could/should get together with the providers of first aid training to address this woeful gap in their trainers' knowledge?

 

[Northerner]

Do you think DUK could/should get together with the providers of first aid training to address this woeful gap in their trainers' knowledge?

It's certainly a good idea. I know we tend to only hear about the bad advice, but there have been several reported on the forum over the years I'll ask Joe if he knows of any input they have to things.

 

[Caroline]

I think I would also be inclined to contact the training providors too. In our office several of the first aiders thought you treated a hypo with insulin, I let rip and let them know what I thought of that idea. It must have worked because they all went and checked it out and then the person in charge of the first aiders contacted the trainers with collated information and asked if it would be incoprporated in first aid training. The company was less than helpfull so now a new trainer is being sought.

 

[Redkite]

Frightening isn't it

When my son started swimming lessons aged 5, I had to declare his diabetes on the application form, and the fact that he would keep dextrose tablets on the poolside in case of a hypo. There was a big fuss made about pool staff not being allowed to give medication, and though I explained until I was blue in the face that the dextrose was just sweets, not medication, they ruled that he would have to get them out of the packet himself and put them in his own mouth. I ended up having to be on duty on the poolside myself for about 3 years!

 

[Copepod]

In a way, I feel that dextrose tablets are comparable to salbutamol / Ventolin inhaler - either can be used to both treat and prevent situations, whether hypoglycaemia in case of diabetes (in particular type 1 diabetes, but also type 2 treated with insulin - so I sort of understand what MeganN's first aid instructor was getting at ) or tight airways in case of asthma. As long as basic trained first aiders stick to the "no administration of medication" rule, then the risk of administering insulin in a situation of hypoglycaemia should not arise.

In fact, there is a very basic rule (taught to me by a doctor at a standard 10 evening first aid course) of if faced with a person who is known to have diabetes (known because they've told you in the past or because of a medic alert tag etc), unable to check blood glucose level by meter, and who is acting strangely, give sugar in some form, as if they're hypo, that will solve the problem, and if they're hyper, it won't make much difference. Obviously, if you can test blood glucose, that will give a definitive answer, but blood glucose testing is not part of basic first aid. For more skilled / trained first aiders eg mountain rescue team members, it's a different matter, but in MeganN's example, she's describing a basic one day first aid at work course.

I've just been helping at a 3 day mountain running race, where I was one of 3 marshals with medical experience - I'm a nurse / first aider / expedition medic; race organiser is a mountain rescue team medic; one of the the other marshals is a 3rd year medical student; several others had first aid courses ranging from 1 day first aid at work to 4 day+ remote area first aid. The medical student and race organiser were both happy to leave any medical attention to me, but keen to learn. No diabetes related issues, of course (I was the only person out of nearly 100 racers and 10 marshals with any type of diabetes). I think I should relent and allow race organiser to test my blood glucose one time when I'm due to test anyway, so he gets experience with another meter, including tip of putting under armpit when it's too cold.

 

[delb t]

Err -who was this idiot -he needs some up to date training!!!

 

[MeganN]

I know it was only a one day first aid in the work place tuition but I do think it would be a good idea for diabetes uk to raise a bit more awareness with their trainers and maybe learn to be a bit more subtle in their delivery and assessment if diabetes especially if they know there is a diabetic present.

The trainer did nothing wrong. He ave the correct advice to give us sugar and to not ever inject anyone with any medication that they would be carrying.
It was just his rudimentary mis knowledge of the disease and the way that he dismissed it as not a very serious problem that upset me.
It boils down to the fact that its not nice to tell a diabetic that a hypo is due to their mis management of a disease that is 'easily managed'.

I know he didn't mean to upset me, and in every other aspect he was a very good trainer I just feel that they should have a bit if a better knowledge of D.

He was an EXL trainer and I liked him all the while he wasn't talking about diabetes.

Scary that he said he had actually given a seminar at some point on diabetes as well.

 

[Cleo]

Megan, I think you deserve a GOLD MEDAL for the way you handled this guy. I would have been absolutely fuming and I'm not good at hiding my feels esp. when I'm really angry !, so well done you. I can handle people who are ignorant but I cant handle people who are ARROGANT !

 

[MeganN]

Lol trust me cleo it took a lot to stay civil.

The shock on my brother and best friends faces was a picture though. It was a mixture of shocked outrage at what he was saying about a condition that I had and they had knowledge and witnessed how hard I have found it sometimes.
The more the bloke went on they started watching me like a ticking bomb about to go off!
I don't normally hold my tongue that well. I didn't get the nickname pitbull by being shy 🙂

 

[smithgareth]

I have to be honest, I don't find his response surprising. Most of the first aid trainers I've come across have no medical training. Most are just trained to deliver the course material in front of them.
I remember my own understanding of diabetes before I was diagnosed and it was amazingly poor!
I'd give the company a call and suggest they add in a section to cover diabetes, a lot of courses have this now. That way the trainer will have a script to follow and he won't make an idiot of himself!!

 

[Lauras87]

our first aiders at work werent taught about diabetes & what to do if a T1 was ill/collapsed.

so i had to do a hypo guide as 1 of them wants to pump me full of insulin 😱 (her best mates boyfriend is injected with insulin when hypo according to her), if i'm unconcious i'd rather treat myself!

but your first aider needs to know his facts about it all

 

[newbs]

I find it totally shocking, the little knowledge that first aiders/nurses/people in general have about D. 😡

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I find it totally shocking, the little knowledge that first aiders/nurses/people in general have about D. 😡

But then I know I wouldn't have done any better. Thinking back 20+ years I knew absolutely *nothing* about diabetes, and very little about the macro- and micro-nutrient properties of foods.

I can remember wondering to myself in the first couple of days whether honey would be OK as a sweetener, instead of sugar 🙄

 

[Northerner]

But then I know I wouldn't have done any better. Thinking back 20+ years I knew absolutely *nothing* about diabetes, and very little about the macro- and micro-nutrient properties of foods.

I can remember wondering to myself in the first couple of days whether honey would be OK as a sweetener, instead of sugar 🙄

I agree that Joe Public may know very little of the ins and outs of diabetes - I gleaned most of my pre-diagnosis knowledge from Neighbours' character Danni Stark! But if you are in a position where you are teaching people how to deal with people who have diabetes then you really should be better informed, particularly since a significant number of the population is afflicted with it - not just Type 1s, but also the million or so Type 2s on insulin or other hypoglycaemic therapies.

 

[PattiEvans]

I agree that Joe Public may know very little of the ins and outs of diabetes - I gleaned most of my pre-diagnosis knowledge from Neighbours' character Danni Stark! But if you are in a position where you are teaching people how to deal with people who have diabetes then you really should be better informed, particularly since a significant number of the population is afflicted with it - not just Type 1s, but also the million or so Type 2s on insulin or other hypoglycaemic therapies.

You're absolutely right Northerner, he was in a position where he was a trainer teaching the public (who, as you say, can be ignorant as they like) but he needs to have the facts. How would people feel if he described people with ME as just lazy, or commented that people with MS only needed a bit of "backbone" to get on with walking.

 

[AndyS]

How could he stand in front of you and say such things? 😱 I wonder where he got his 'information' - was it based on experience of relatives, speculation or official training? He needs a Diabetic Tamagotchi! 😱 😉

LOL Alan, that's really tickled me a diabetic tamagotchi

 

[Northerner]

LOL Alan, that's really tickled me a diabetic tamagotchi

Glad you liked it Andy 🙂 They should be compulsory!