Fasting Glucose levels.

[Jan1956]

My fasting glucose levels are averaging at 8.5 from the time I wake until I eat at 12 noon. I’m currently doing the Fast 800 so I’m eating in a window of 12 noon to 8 pm. This is helping me loose weight and hopefully kickstart my metabolism. Plus I’m not a breakfast eater.I’m keeping carefully to low carbs.
However, I’m concerned that this regime is doing me more harm than good I.e - to have fasting levels at this amount?
What are your thoughts ? Is this Level a concern to my health longer term?
I’m newly diagnosed T2 AIC 55 and not on any meds.
Thank you.

 

[Leadinglights]

My fasting glucose levels are averaging at 8.5 from the time I wake until I eat at 12 noon. I’m currently doing the Fast 800 so I’m eating in a window of 12 noon to 8 pm. This is helping me loose weight and hopefully kickstart my metabolism. Plus I’m not a breakfast eater.I’m keeping carefully to low carbs.
However, I’m concerned that this regime is doing me more harm than good I.e - to have fasting levels at this amount?
What are your thoughts ? Is this Level a concern to my health longer term?
I’m newly diagnosed T2 AIC 55 and not on any meds.
Thank you.

This is something that people do find when they do not eat shortly after waking and getting up as the liver releases glucose to give energy for your organs to function and give you energy to do 'stuff' during the morning.
It is referred to as Dawn Phenomenon or Foot on the Floor Syndrome and if people are dietary managed not a lot that you can do about it other than eat soon after getting up. You could try having something small and low carb and see if it makes a difference.
With levels at that level means you are higher than the suggested 4-7 before eating.
Do you know what you are 2 hours after eating lunch?

 

[Jan1956]

This is something that people do find when they do not eat shortly after waking and getting up as the liver releases glucose to give energy for your organs to function and give you energy to do 'stuff' during the morning.
It is referred to as Dawn Phenomenon or Foot on the Floor Syndrome and if people are dietary managed not a lot that you can do about it other than eat soon after getting up. You could try having something small and low carb and see if it makes a difference.
With levels at that level means you are higher than the suggested 4-7 before eating.
Do you know what you are 2 hours after eating lunch?

@Leadinglights
Thank you. 2 hours after lunch I’m around 8.0 and 2 hours after dinner I’m around 8.5 to 9.0. Strangely my evening meal goes higher despite having low carb foods. Sometimes the same meal can have differing results and at times a meal that I thought might spike me because I’ve added a bit of wholemeal bread with home made soup for example fairs better with result of 7.5.

 

[rebrascora]

I find exercising on an evening can really help with reducing that dawn Phenomenon/Foot on the Floor Syndrome, or as suggested eating a small low carb snack as soon as you wake up (some nuts or cheese for instance or a boiled egg) can trigger the liver to stop releasing glucose and encourage your pancreas to produce some insulin.
Exercise wise, walking or runing up and down stairs as many times as I can works for me. Makes my heart pump faster and breath heavier and causes a bit of muscle burn and what I find is that those muscles then suck glucose back out of my blood whilst I sleep to replenish their stores. It only takes 5-10 mins to run up and down stairs 10 times and I can't make the excuse that it is miserable weather. Obviously don't attempt this if you are not steady on your feet and do use the hand rail if you do try it.

 

[Jan1956]

I find exercising on an evening can really help with reducing that dawn Phenomenon/Foot on the Floor Syndrome, or as suggested eating a small low carb snack as soon as you wake up (some nuts or cheese for instance or a boiled egg) can trigger the liver to stop releasing glucose and encourage your pancreas to produce some insulin.
Exercise wise, walking or runing up and down stairs as many times as I can works for me. Makes my heart pump faster and breath heavier and causes a bit of muscle burn and what I find is that those muscles then suck glucose back out of my blood whilst I sleep to replenish their stores. It only takes 5-10 mins to run up and down stairs 10 times and I can't make the excuse that it is miserable weather. Obviously don't attempt this if you are not steady on your feet and do use the hand rail if you do try it.

@rebrascora
Thank you for the tips. Definitely worth a try. What I’m not sure about is that if I chose to ignore and treat as Dawn Phenomenon will it have an adverse effect on my health. The thing I suspect is that I’ve probably been like this for years during my pre diabetic stage - I was just probably unaware of it.

 

[rebrascora]

Are you testing just before these meals as well as 2hrs after. It is the difference between those readings which is more helpful than the actual post meal reading and it might also be interesting to know if your pre evening meal is considerably lower than your morning fasting average? It should be, but how much lower would be interesting.

You post meal reading will almost always be impacted by your premeal reading, so this may be why you are getting different results from the same meal. It is also important to note that there are something like 42 factors which affect BG levels and whilst food, exercise and medication are the 3 most powerful, stress and illness and dehydration and ambient temp and hormones/time of the month or even HRT patches for those of us beyond stage of life, can all make a difference and if your premeal reading is higher than usual that may mean that you are slightly more insulin resistant than if your levels are lower. Add to that, BG meters are no where near as accurate as the decimal place they quote suggests and whilst they are a really, really useful tool, you need to be guided by them over a period of time or several sets of tests rather than comparing one test directly with another. Trends are what we look for with diabetes because no day is ever quite the same.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hpw long have you been doing the Fast 800 diet @Jan1956

Great to hear that it is helping you lose weight 🙂

What sorts of foods are you eating to make up your 800 cals?

 

[Jan1956]

Are you testing just before these meals as well as 2hrs after. It is the difference between those readings which is more helpful than the actual post meal reading and it might also be interesting to know if your pre evening meal is considerably lower than your morning fasting average? It should be, but how much lower would be interesting.

You post meal reading will almost always be impacted by your premeal reading, so this may be why you are getting different results from the same meal. It is also important to note that there are something like 42 factors which affect BG levels and whilst food, exercise and medication are the 3 most powerful, stress and illness and dehydration and ambient temp and hormones/time of the month or even HRT patches for those of us beyond stage of life, can all make a difference and if your premeal reading is higher than usual that may mean that you are slightly more insulin resistant than if your levels are lower. Add to that, BG meters are no where near as accurate as the decimal place they quote suggests and whilst they are a really, really useful tool, you need to be guided by them over a period of time or several sets of tests rather than comparing one test directly with another. Trends are what we look for with diabetes because no day is ever quite the same.

@rebrascora
Many Thanks for the advice and explanation. I am testing before and after meals. My counts vary greatly / this evening’s reading before meal was 7.1 and 2 hours after meal it was 9.2. Then 2 and half hours later it was 8.5. The meal I ate was homemade chicken broth with lots of veg and sweet potato. Plus a small portion of brown sourdough. This sent my count to 11.7 after an hour and 9.2 after 2 hours the to 8.5 after 2 1/2 hrs .
My after meal evening counts are always a lot higher -
I’m assuming that it’s not unusual for the counts to peak after 1 hour and then start to drop and balance out?
My main concern is that by leaving my diabetes without meds and with higher counts than I should be getting that I’m putting my health at risk.

 

[Jan1956]

Hpw long have you been doing the Fast 800 diet @Jan1956

Great to hear that it is helping you lose weight 🙂

What sorts of foods are you eating to make up your 800 cals?

@everydayupsanddowns
I’ve been doing the Fast 800 for about 6 weeks. I’m eating a balance of protein and fibre and low carbs for lunch and dinner. No white pots , no white bread, no white pasta ,no white rice , no convenience processed foods etc definitely no sugar .

I eat chicken, fish, mackerel tinned and smoked ,cheese, nuts, eggs, pulses - lentils , etc. vegetables , salads and an apple every day. Blueberries and raspberries, fresh figs with cheese and apple. Etc
I use the Michael Moseley recipes as a guide, also Keto recipes.
Altogether I’ve lost 1 stone 5 pounds over a period of time.
However, I’m peaking high on foods I didn’t expect to peak on,
My counts vary greatly / this evening’s reading before meal was 7.1 and 2 hours after meal it was 9.2. Then 2 and half hours later it was 8.5. The meal I ate was homemade clear chicken broth with lots of veg and sweet potato. Plus a small portion of brown sourdough. This sent my count to 11.7 after an hour and 9.2 after 2 hours the to 8.5 after 2 1/2 hrs .
My after meal evening counts are always a lot higher -
I’m assuming that it’s not unusual for the counts to peak pretty high after 1 hour and then start to drop and balance out?
My main concern is that by leaving my diabetes without meds with higher counts than I should be getting that I’m putting my health at risk.

 

[Leadinglights]

@everydayupsanddowns
I’ve been doing the Fast 800 for about 6 weeks. I’m eating a balance of protein and fibre and low carbs for lunch and dinner. No white pots , no white bread, no white pasta ,no white rice , no convenience processed foods etc definitely no sugar .

I eat chicken, fish, mackerel tinned and smoked ,cheese, nuts, eggs, pulses - lentils , etc. vegetables , salads and an apple every day. Blueberries and raspberries, fresh figs with cheese and apple. Etc
I use the Michael Moseley recipes as a guide, also Keto recipes.
Altogether I’ve lost 1 stone 5 pounds over a period of time.
However, I’m peaking high on foods I didn’t expect to peak on,
My counts vary greatly / this evening’s reading before meal was 7.1 and 2 hours after meal it was 9.2. Then 2 and half hours later it was 8.5. The meal I ate was homemade clear chicken broth with lots of veg and sweet potato. Plus a small portion of brown sourdough. This sent my count to 11.7 after an hour and 9.2 after 2 hours the to 8.5 after 2 1/2 hrs .
My after meal evening counts are always a lot higher -
I’m assuming that it’s not unusual for the counts to peak pretty high after 1 hour and then start to drop and balance out?
My main concern is that by leaving my diabetes without meds with higher counts than I should be getting that I’m putting my health at risk.

I few things you mention that may be the problem. Sweet potato is just as high carb as ordinary potato which with the bread could have been a bit too high carb, figs are quite high carb as are apples depending on size, also lentils and pulses are highish carb and the brown versions of rice, pasta, bread are all similar carbs to the white version, people often think by swapping they are reducing the carbs.
I think it is your starting level rather that what your meals are per se but keeping your meal increase after 2 hours to 2-3 mmol/l then overall levels will start to come down and you will be seeing before meal readings of 5 -7mmol/l but nearer to 5 would be preferable then a 3mmol/l increase from your meal would keep you no more than 8-8.5 after 2 hours.
If that makes sense.
Different food will be metabolised at different rates so depending on what you ate the profile of your glucose levels following eating may not always be the same.

 

[Drummer]

I could not have done a low calorie diet straight after diagnosis. I went low carb and that fixed the type 2, and I lost a lot of weight, but in that order.
I am coming up to 8 years from diagnosis, and decided to do the shakes diet. I got some shakes from Tesco and made a start, but found that I did not want to eat so it became a fast. I have not been hungry eating one small meal and having one shake. Because, I assume, I am fat adapted I have not been hungry and I am shrinking.
My menu is still low carb, so no foods with carb content over 10% no matter what colour it is.
I have my annual test date now, 21st October, so will keep to the regime until the results are back.

 

[Jan1956]

I few things you mention that may be the problem. Sweet potato is just as high carb as ordinary potato which with the bread could have been a bit too high carb, figs are quite high carb as are apples depending on size, also lentils and pulses are highish carb and the brown versions of rice, pasta, bread are all similar carbs to the white version, people often think by swapping they are reducing the carbs.
I think it is your starting level rather that what your meals are per se but keeping your meal increase after 2 hours to 2-3 mmol/l then overall levels will start to come down and you will be seeing before meal readings of 5 -7mmol/l but nearer to 5 would be preferable then a 3mmol/l increase from your meal would keep you no more than 8-8.5 after 2 hours.
If that makes sense.
Different food will be metabolised at different rates so depending on what you ate the profile of your glucose levels following eating may not always be the same.

@Leadinglights Thanks for the advice. I was thinking that by swapping food items to slower release glucose with a lower GI it would be better but I need to factor in then the points you raise that lentils, soda bread, apples etc are still highish carbs. What a complicated science this is! So maybe on reflection my carbs are still too high? .
I don’t itemise and calculate to an inch of their lives but think I need an even closer check on my carbs level.
Do you advise weighing and calculating to begin with?
The other day I had a two egg salad and after an hour I had spiked to 12 but it did eventually come down to 7.5 after 2 and half hours.
Patience isn’t my strong point so I’m finding that I want quick results which in reality I’m not going to get.
Ah well onwards and upwards it is !
Thanks again for taking time to reply.

 

[Jan1956]

I could not have done a low calorie diet straight after diagnosis. I went low carb and that fixed the type 2, and I lost a lot of weight, but in that order.
I am coming up to 8 years from diagnosis, and decided to do the shakes diet. I got some shakes from Tesco and made a start, but found that I did not want to eat so it became a fast. I have not been hungry eating one small meal and having one shake. Because, I assume, I am fat adapted I have not been hungry and I am shrinking.
My menu is still low carb, so no foods with carb content over 10% no matter what colour it is.
I have my annual test date now, 21st October, so will keep to the regime until the results are back.

Good luck with your annual test. You make a good point about doing low calorie dieting at the same time as carb reducing. Maybe I’ve set too tall an order for myself and I’m thinking losing weight will help diabetes which it will to an extent but as you say low carb is the key to diabetes . I think I’m getting a gist that I need to be looking more carefully at the carbs despite thinking i was cracking it. Thanks for your perspective.

 

[Drummer]

Good luck with your annual test. You make a good point about doing low calorie dieting at the same time as carb reducing. Maybe I’ve set too tall an order for myself and I’m thinking losing weight will help diabetes which it will to an extent but as you say low carb is the key to diabetes . I think I’m getting a gist that I need to be looking more carefully at the carbs despite thinking i was cracking it. Thanks for your perspective.

Thank you.
I have found things really easy to achieve since diagnosis as it just gave me the absolute confidence that I had been misguided for most of my life.
The return to normal numbers was so fast, the top end of normal HbA1c at 6 months, and then finding out how effortless it was to lose a considerable amount of weight - it has got me questioning the sanity of those advising on health matters, to be honest. They do say that repeating the same thing and expecting different results is a symptom of an unhinged mind.
I am, though, a very ordinary type 2, and eating low carb fixed that even after years of high glucose being ignored. I was never told about a test being flagged as high - it was simply never repeated.
I blame diabetes for the weight gain, and fixing it with low carb resulted in weight loss.

 

[Leadinglights]

@Leadinglights Thanks for the advice. I was thinking that by swapping food items to slower release glucose with a lower GI it would be better but I need to factor in then the points you raise that lentils, soda bread, apples etc are still highish carbs. What a complicated science this is! So maybe on reflection my carbs are still too high? .
I don’t itemise and calculate to an inch of their lives but think I need an even closer check on my carbs level.
Do you advise weighing and calculating to begin with?
The other day I had a two egg salad and after an hour I had spiked to 12 but it did eventually come down to 7.5 after 2 and half hours.
Patience isn’t my strong point so I’m finding that I want quick results which in reality I’m not going to get.
Ah well onwards and upwards it is !
Thanks again for taking time to reply.

It is better to be patient as bringing glucose levels down too quickly can cause issues with your eyes and nerves especially if you previously have a high carb diet.
Looking at a time scale less than 2 hours can mislead you into thinking foods and meals are not suitable but as long as you are less than 8.5mmol/l then that is the benchmark that is suggested as being indicative of tolerance to the carbs in the meal.
You are certainly right it is not easy as the body is a complicated machine

 

[Jan1956]

@Leadinglights
Thank you. Knowing that I ignore the mid reading after eating ( after an hour) is helpful - yesterday, the mid reading went to 11 but by 2 hours it dropped to 8.5.
I’m finding my levels before and after lunch aren’t too bad - however the evening reading peaks high as does the early morning reading. Today I tried to eat a few nuts after waking to see if it made a difference to my fasting reading. I’m not too sure it did but maybe this needs to be continued for longer for a reliable average?
Thank you for explaining that this needs to be a slow process to protect eyes etc. I hadn’t considered this so a helpful thing to know.

 

[Leadinglights]

@Leadinglights
Thank you. Knowing that I ignore the mid reading after eating ( after an hour) is helpful - yesterday, the mid reading went to 11 but by 2 hours it dropped to 8.5.
I’m finding my levels before and after lunch aren’t too bad - however the evening reading peaks high as does the early morning reading. Today I tried to eat a few nuts after waking to see if it made a difference to my fasting reading. I’m not too sure it did but maybe this needs to be continued for longer for a reliable average?
Thank you for explaining that this needs to be a slow process to protect eyes etc. I hadn’t considered this so a helpful thing to know.

Making conclusions from single readings can be misleading and looking at trends from over a few similar meals.
Learning from what you find and taking action otherwise it is a waste of time and good money you are spending on a CGM.
If the increase from your meal after 2 hours is more than 3mmol/l and you had, as an example 3 potatoes then next time try 2 or have something else like butternut squash which is lower carb and see what you get then.