Fasting BG question

[BobbleHat]

I haven't quite established a testing regime yet (diet controlled T2 self funding and trying to eek out the strips and lancets!)
But I have been trying to regularly test first thing. I've never been above 7 but I sit fairly firmly in the high 6s most mornings (testing between 7&8 am).
For reference: none of my 2hr post meal BGs have been high (highest so far has been 7.4 when I had a half portion of noodles!)

I have adopted the Freshwell approach to eating. I'm eating 2 meals a day so basically doing 16:8 intermittent fasting. It's a relief to give up on breakfast to be honest. I've never much liked it and by missing it, I immediately and effortlessly cut some carbs.

Over my two meals, I'm averaging 50-60g carbs (none from bread or potatoes anymore), although I occasionally go a little higher but never above 100g.

I don't snack anymore but I do drink tea with semi-skimmed milk - and I do drink that between meals so I suppose the milk becomes a snack! Can't drink normal tea black but am experimenting with flavoured teas so I reduce the milk.

I just wondered whether a) my fasting BG is OK sitting above 6? And b) If not, any suggestions for improving it? I wondered if I should be checking later, as I'm technically testing 3-4 hours before my fast ends. Or whether my main meal is too late - my work pattern means its normal for us to eat between 7-9pm. Or whether it's the decaf tea at 9pm with a splash of milk?

 

[Leadinglights]

I wouldn't get too hung up about the fasting level as some people will always be higher in the morning because of what is termed Foot on the Floor Syndrome where the liver releases glucose in the absence of food so can remain the highest reading of the day. But in any case you are still within the guidance of 4-7mmol/l fasting and before meals.
What is more important is whether your 2 hour post meal readings are no more than 2-3 mmol/l more than before or no more than 8 mmol/l.
The amount of milk in tea will not be adding many carbs so that may be an unneeded restriction. Much better to have a regime you are enjoying as it is for life.

 

[BobbleHat]

I wouldn't get too hung up about the fasting level as some people will always be higher in the morning because of what is termed Foot on the Floor Syndrome where the liver releases glucose in the absence of food so can remain the highest reading of the day. But in any case you are still within the guidance of 4-7mmol/l fasting and before meals.
What is more important is whether your 2 hour post meal readings are no more than 2-3 mmol/l more than before or no more than 8 mmol/l.
The amount of milk in tea will not be adding many carbs so that may be an unneeded restriction. Much better to have a regime you are enjoying as it is for life.

As I say, my BG are pretty stable. Most fasting are in the 6.2-6.7 range - have had one or two in the high 5s. 2 hours after have been consistently in the 6s (only the one, as mentioned above, in the 7s).
I feel really good eating like this. I've noticed I'm less tired and have better mental clarity. I assume that's because I'm not make my blood sugar ride a rollercoaster anymore!
Yes, I think I had a momentary panic about the milk in my tea (probably triggered by watching a you tube of Dr Urwin talking about how he didn't drink milk anymore!)
I'll be drinking alcohol today for the first time since my diagnosis, I think that will be a more interesting experiment in blood sugars .

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Martin.A]

As I say, my BG are pretty stable. Most fasting are in the 6.2-6.7 range - have had one or two in the high 5s. 2 hours after have been consistently in the 6s (only the one, as mentioned above, in the 7s).
I feel really good eating like this. I've noticed I'm less tired and have better mental clarity. I assume that's because I'm not make my blood sugar ride a rollercoaster anymore!
Yes, I think I had a momentary panic about the milk in my tea (probably triggered by watching a you tube of Dr Urwin talking about how he didn't drink milk anymore!)
I'll be drinking alcohol today for the first time since my diagnosis, I think that will be a more interesting experiment in blood sugars .

Thank you for the reply.

I like my tea strong so I only add a little semi-skimmed milk. I measured it out a few times and it averaged 25ml, which is only just over 1g carb and barely worth counting, as @Leadinglights has said. That's different to having a glass of milk, which is maybe what Dr Unwin was talking about.

If you're planning on having a pint check out the carbs. A 330ml bottle of Heineken, for example, has just over 10g carb so yes, that'll be an interesting experiment. Let us know how you get on.

 

[BobbleHat]

I like my tea strong so I only add a little semi-skimmed milk. I measured it out a few times and it averaged 25ml, which is only just over 1g carb and barely worth counting, as @Leadinglights has said. That's different to having a glass of milk, which is maybe what Dr Unwin was talking about.

If you're planning on having a pint check out the carbs. A 330ml bottle of Heineken, for example, has just over 10g carb so yes, that'll be an interesting experiment. Let us know how you get on.

Interestingly, I've just checked my blood sugars, admittedly more than 2 hours after my last food but only about 2 hours after my last drink and it was 5.2!
It was a bottomless brunch with people I don't know well yet. They'll be my colleagues when I change jobs in October (just context for why it might feel awkward to try and manage my diabetes - but it wasn't) I stuck to Prosecco (1.8g carb per flute) instead of cocktails. The restaurant happily swapped my fries for a salad in balsamic vinegar and I ate the burger but not the bun! My first attempt at eating out since diagnosis went OK I think!

 

[harbottle]

Interestingly, I've just checked my blood sugars, admittedly more than 2 hours after my last food but only about 2 hours after my last drink and it was 5.2!
It was a bottomless brunch with people I don't know well yet. They'll be my colleagues when I change jobs in October (just context for why it might feel awkward to try and manage my diabetes - but it wasn't) I stuck to Prosecco (1.8g carb per flute) instead of cocktails. The restaurant happily swapped my fries for a salad in balsamic vinegar and I ate the burger but not the bun! My first attempt at eating out since diagnosis went OK I think!

Alcohol has a lowering effect on blood glucose. If I have a few drinks with a meal, it barely rises. Three months after I was diagnosed I wore a libre sensor, went out and had a meal (With carbs) and a few drinks and it just kept dropping. It's due to the way the liver processes alcohol and switched off the production of glucose, apparently.

 

[harbottle]

I haven't quite established a testing regime yet (diet controlled T2 self funding and trying to eek out the strips and lancets!)
But I have been trying to regularly test first thing. I've never been above 7 but I sit fairly firmly in the high 6s most mornings (testing between 7&8 am).
For reference: none of my 2hr post meal BGs have been high (highest so far has been 7.4 when I had a half portion of noodles!)

I have adopted the Freshwell approach to eating. I'm eating 2 meals a day so basically doing 16:8 intermittent fasting. It's a relief to give up on breakfast to be honest. I've never much liked it and by missing it, I immediately and effortlessly cut some carbs.

Over my two meals, I'm averaging 50-60g carbs (none from bread or potatoes anymore), although I occasionally go a little higher but never above 100g.

I don't snack anymore but I do drink tea with semi-skimmed milk - and I do drink that between meals so I suppose the milk becomes a snack! Can't drink normal tea black but am experimenting with flavoured teas so I reduce the milk.

I just wondered whether a) my fasting BG is OK sitting above 6? And b) If not, any suggestions for improving it? I wondered if I should be checking later, as I'm technically testing 3-4 hours before my fast ends. Or whether my main meal is too late - my work pattern means its normal for us to eat between 7-9pm. Or whether it's the decaf tea at 9pm with a splash of milk?

Morning fasting levels are notoriously variable, due to hormones - a dump of cortisol in early hours (around 3) causes a rise in blood sugar (Liver starts making/releasing it) that in non-diabetics is deal with by a small insulin spike. There might be a small rise in blood glucose. One aspect of T2D is 'runaway' gluconeogenesis - i.e. high levels caused by the liver over producing glucose - and a poor response to morning levels rising.

So called foot on the floor syndrome is a rise when getting up and getting active (I work with a T1 whose BG shoots up the moment he gets out of bed.) The body's response to insulin and blood sugar does change throughout the day, though. It's not always the same.

Low carb diets can also cause higher fasting levels.

 

[trophywench]

I'm not at all certain that what we call foot on the floor syndrome is even recognised by the medical profession to this day - it was a name invented for that happening that me and Mike (@everydayupsanddowns) - and quite likely other T1s - came up for it on another forum we were both members of - years ago!

 

[harbottle]

It’s a term all over the Internet? I’ve seen YouTube videos with doctors talking about it. Sometimes they call it ‘feet on floor syndrome’

But you’re right, it’s not a medical term.

 

[BobbleHat]

Thank you for all the replies - lots of helpful information. The idea of 'feet on the floor' makes sense to me, even if it's not a medically recognised term!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

It’s a term all over the Internet? I’ve seen YouTube videos with doctors talking about it. Sometimes they call it ‘feet on floor syndrome’

But you’re right, it’s not a medical term.

Yes, the Dawn Phenomenon was pretty well known, but it didn’t seem to accurately reflect what we were experiencing. It was just a sort of forum shorthand - I guess like many bits of species knowledge it just emerged from several places at once (like when independent island populations of macaques all suddenly develop a new skill or food-gathering technique despite never having seen it once a certain number of macaques have the knowledge - it just kinda spreads to everyone

 

[harbottle]

There doesn't seem to be much research into rises into BG when getting up/waking up, but quite a bit looking at DP, which starts in the early hours.

All I've seen is that shortly after waking up, there's a spike in Cortisol and Growth hormone which will cause the liver to release glucose...

A lot of people with diabetes seem to see it, but I've not found any papers on it. I've found quite a few on DP, though, as it's been heavily researched over the years.

This was a reference I found from some sort of question and answer site:

How to Treat Foot to Floor Phenomenon

Dr. Edelman offers a solution for "Foot to Floor" phenomenon, which is a very common situation in people with diabetes who are on insulin, and occurs when blood sugars rise upon waking.

tcoyd.org

 

[trophywench]

AN American website - hardly a website frequented by yer average English person - and certainly not by either of us!