Extremely High Morning BS

[novorapidboi26]

If it is dawn phenomenon some insulin with it would be a good idea, but its such a small amount of carbs in one biscuit............

However, I have a yoghurt every morning that is 15-20g of carbs and take insulin, my ratio is 3:1 at that time, so a few units go in......

Whats your breakfast ratio Gill?

 

[fencesitter]

(Should i have had a little insulin and if so how much for the biscuit?)


Well, I'd have thought so, as the DP might just get worse with the additional carb, even if it's just a bit? A bit out of my depth here as my son hasn't actually experienced DP himself. Also, looking it up in my books it just says what DP is, but doesn't give advice about how to manage it 🙄
Hopefully someone else will chip in here

 

[mum2westiesGill]

If it is dawn phenomenon some insulin with it would be a good idea, but its such a small amount of carbs in one biscuit............

However, I have a yoghurt every morning that is 15-20g of carbs and take insulin, my ratio is 3:1 at that time, so a few units go in......

Whats your breakfast ratio Gill?

Maybe if i'm having just 1 x plain biscuit perhaps 1u or 2u??

The ratios i'm working on are currently:
BREAKFAST = 1: 1
LUNCH: 1: 1
DINNER = following my DSN's advice when i last saw her is staying on "her" set dose of 12u - i really do need to see her about this!

 

[AJLang]

Sorry to hear that you are having such problems. I certainly wouldn't have expected one biscuit to increase you from 17.9 to 29!
Have you spoken to your DSN about the latest results from the past two or three days? I have huge spikes in my BGs in the early hours of the morning - but now know that this is because of gastroparesis.

 

[novorapidboi26]

Maybe if i'm having just 1 x plain biscuit perhaps 1u or 2u??

The ratios i'm working on are currently:
BREAKFAST = 1: 1
LUNCH: 1: 1
DINNER = following my DSN's advice when i last saw her is staying on "her" set dose of 12u - i really do need to see her about this!

I couldn't say how it would effect you but both carbs and insulin help me in defeating the DP, however the rise in your BG level was large, which is possible I suppose just with the DP effects, but something else may be contributing, you may need more basal insulin from the morning onwards....

 

[cherrypie]

Whisymum,
You must be fed up to the back teeth in trying to get it right.

A shot in the dark here, would this article help you?

http://forecast.diabetes.org/magazine/features/rocky-morning-highs

 

[trophywench]

Clearly the DP is kicking in somewhere between 03.30 am and 07.74am, isn't it?

Looks like your breakfast ratio is too low.

But anyway - do the basal tests for the rest of the 24 hours and then you'll have a proper picture.At the moment you are just sticking it together with off bits of sticking plaster, in the shape of fast-acting insuli corrections all the time and you will NOT have to do that once you have your basal correct and can work out your proper ratio for the different meals. The body doesn't distinguish between the slow acting and the fast acting so if it is short of basal, it will borrow fast-acting to keep your heart beating rather than use it soleley for the carbs.

The idea is get your basal pretty damn correct, so that any fast acting gets used for food like it's sposed to!

How many carbs do you have for your evening meal? - cos that ain't right either of you are 12.7 before bed. Either that or your morning basal ain't lasting, this is a bit like mud wrestling.

Get the rest of those basal tests done asap and let's try and get you out of this quagmire asap!

 

[trophywench]

PS it ain't Somogyi - no way are you having an unnoticed hypo! - not at that level in the middle of the night!

 

[mum2westiesGill]

however the rise in your BG level was large, which is possible I suppose just with the DP effects, you may need more basal insulin from the morning onwards....

Maybe

Whisymum,
You must be fed up to the back teeth in trying to get it right.

A shot in the dark here, would this article help you?

http://forecast.diabetes.org/magazine/features/rocky-morning-highs

I am truly "fed up to the back teeth in trying to get it right"

Thank you, i've had a good read of the article. It's a question of what to do first ie a couple of units more of basal insulin, take it a bit later on....
http://www.diabetesnet.com/about-diabetes/insulin/insulin-action-time

 

[novorapidboi26]

Or split it...................(I am bias though)............😉

 

[mum2westiesGill]

Clearly the DP is kicking in somewhere between 03.30 am and 07.74am, isn't it?

Looks like your breakfast ratio is too low.

How many carbs do you have for your evening meal? - cos that ain't right either of you are 12.7 before bed. Either that or your morning basal ain't lasting, this is a bit like mud wrestling.

Get the rest of those basal tests done asap and let's try and get you out of this quagmire asap!

Breakfast ratio is 1: 1.

Last night's evening meal:
Pooles m&p pie 1 x = 33.6g per pie
Asda potato wedges =13g (from picture in carbs and cals book)
Tinned spaghetti = 10g (from picture in carbs and cals book)
On a 1: 1 ratio how much qa would you have taken for this?

Basal i only take once at bedtime.

 

[mum2westiesGill]

Or split it...................(I am bias though)............😉

Could do but i'm a bit frightened about doing this without asking my DSN. I've only ever since being diagnosed 20 years ago done my basal dose once at bedtime.

 

[novorapidboi26]

Could do but i'm a bit frightened about doing this without asking my DSN. I've only ever since being diagnosed 20 years ago done my basal dose once at bedtime.

And you shouldn't do so without your teams recommendation..............

There is no reason why they wouldn't do so..........

Its likely most of us would jump at the chance to pump, doing so means split basal, in fact a multi split basal..........its the way forward.....

 

[mum2westiesGill]

Here we go with my Tuesday night's overnight basal test:

BEDTIME (2317) = 5.0
0300am = had alarm set but slept through it, wondering now if i can continue with the basal testing tonight?
0758am = 11.6

at 0754am had 2 x plain digestives (10.4g carbs per biscuit) with my early morning brew and took 4u of QA insulin.

but did you have insulin with your biscuit? Think you would need to do that.

However, I have a yoghurt every morning that is 15-20g of carbs and take insulin

BREAKFAST (1017) = 12.3

 

[trophywench]

Up your biscuit ratio at the moment, just to kill it?

What should 1u bring you down as a correction - about 2.5 or 3.0? or less?

See my ratio is 1:10g so I'd have had 4 - 2 to correct the high and another 2 for the biscuits. But clearly that isn't enough so I'd be inclined to increase the lot by between 25% and 50%. Which handily works out as 5u with that BG and those 2 biscuits.