DUK Coronavirus Vaccinations Q&A ZOOM session notes

[Toucan]

I watched the DUK seminar on this topic last night, and thought I would share some notes

(Unfortunately, my internet link went down part way through, so I missed a few items, so it anybody has any other notes that would be great.)

Q. Can there be serious allergic reaction after vaccination?

A. Very rare, only 2 in the UK so far.

Minor reaction (similar to flu jab) may happen.

However, the older you are, the less side effects there are likely to be! ( An advantage to being a ‘senior’!)

Q. Is the vaccine safe with blood thinning medications

A. Yes, safe with warfarin and other blood thinning drugs

Q. Should you take meds on the day you have your vaccine

A. yes

Q. Is one vaccine more suitable than another?

A. Both work and have very similar side effects, and provide protection within 10 to 15 days of 1st dose. Pfizer may be slightly more effective. The educated guess is that they will both provide protection for several months, and protection will remain until the second dose.

Q. Do you need the same vaccine for both doses?

A. This is preferred, but there is no harm from a different vaccine if there are availability problems.

Q. Will the vaccine cause a rise in blood sugar readings?

A. There is no specific evidence of this. However, in general vaccines can cause some temporary disruption as per the flu vaccine.

What is likely to cause disruption and anxiety – so try to stay calm.

Q. If someone has previously had a violent reaction to medications, is it safe for them?

A. Best to discuss this with a doctor if there has been a severe reaction at the level of needing medical intervention. Intolerance like minor food allergies should not cause a problem.

Q. If you have had COVID, do you still need the vaccine?

A. Yes. Amount and length of any immunity from this is currently unknown

Q. After 2 vaccine doses can you still get COVID?

A. Not known yet, but probably unlikely

Q. Do immune-suppressive make any difference?

A. Not known yet – it may reduce long term effectiveness

Q. Can you request a specific vaccine

A. No

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Thanks @Toucan

This is really helpful, I will make it a ‘sticky’ for a short while, as I think this will help lots of members

 

[ianf0ster]

I watched the DUK seminar on this topic last night, and thought I would share some notes

(Unfortunately, my internet link went down part way through, so I missed a few items, so it anybody has any other notes that would be great.)

Q. Can there be serious allergic reaction after vaccination?

A. Very rare, only 2 in the UK so far.

Minor reaction (similar to flu jab) may happen.

However, the older you are, the less side effects there are likely to be! ( An advantage to being a ‘senior’!)

..............................................

This is very interesting because it has been widely reported on the internet that in Norway after only approx 2,000 vaccinations they'd already had 3 deaths associated with the Pfizer vaccine. And had stopped vaccinating the very old/frail.

This made me think that either:
1. It was false news.
Or
2. That the UK government (with at that time over 2 million given the 1st dose) were engaged in a huge cover-up!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

widely reported on the internet that in Norway

Regular news outlets? Or more ‘off the radar’ places?

I’ve not heard that story reported anywhere major in the UK (BBC, Sky, ITN etc). Though this is the first I've heard of it tbh so I’ve not been looking for it.

BMJ seem to be suggesting that the 23 deaths under investigation were in the very frail or terminally ill

Covid-19: Norway investigates 23 deaths in frail elderly patients after vaccination

Doctors in Norway have been told to conduct more thorough evaluations of very frail elderly patients in line to receive the Pfizer BioNTec vaccine against covid-19, following the deaths of 23 patients shortly after receiving the vaccine. “It may be a coincidence, but we aren’t sure,” Steinar...

www.bmj.com

And that they were being urged to be careful in the frail with complex medical circumstances, rather than that Norway had stopped entirely.

And Bloomberg seems to suggest there is no link

Norway Moves to Calm Vaccine Anxiety After Elderly Deaths

Health authorities in Norway sought to allay safety concerns raised by the death of some elderly patients after they were vaccinated against Covid-19, saying there’s no evidence of a direct link.

www.bloomberg.com

I’ve only skim-read of course.

 

[Robin]

There’s an article in the BMJ here.

Covid-19: Doctors in Norway told to assess severely frail patients for vaccination

Doctors in Norway have been advised to assess severely frail and terminally ill patients to determine whether the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks of possible side effects, after reports indicated that vaccine side effects may have led to deterioration and death of some patients...

www.bmj.com

It seems that Norway have given the vaccine to the very frail and elderly and found that some have died. The question is, of course, that some would probably have reached the end of their natural lives and died anyway, but some may have been so frail that any stress to the system has hastened death.
I wonder if we haven’t seen it so much over here, because certainly in our area, the Pfizer vaccine is being used for those who can travel to a centre, so are by definition less frail, whereas the Oxford vaccine is being used for care homes and the housebound who are probably the most frail, because it doesn’t have to be kept under such extreme cold conditions.
Ah! @everydayupsanddowns , you type faster than me!

 

[trophywench]

I hadn't heard this until just either. Drs there have been told to assess those who are very frail and exceptionally old more thoroughly to consider more whether the common types of adverse reaction would overburden such folk.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I’ve only skim-read of course.

That matches my reading.

(Indeed, a few weeks ago I remember seeing suggestions that this would happen, and noting that if you only look at people over 80 you can expect a fair few to die regardless of whether they take a vaccine or not. Death within the next week just becomes more likely as we get older.)

 

[grovesy]

Regular news outlets? Or more ‘off the radar’ places?

I’ve not heard that story reported anywhere major in the UK (BBC, Sky, ITN etc). Though this is the first I've heard of it tbh so I’ve not been looking for it.

BMJ seem to be suggesting that the 23 deaths under investigation were in the very frail or terminally ill

Covid-19: Norway investigates 23 deaths in frail elderly patients after vaccination

Doctors in Norway have been told to conduct more thorough evaluations of very frail elderly patients in line to receive the Pfizer BioNTec vaccine against covid-19, following the deaths of 23 patients shortly after receiving the vaccine. “It may be a coincidence, but we aren’t sure,” Steinar...

www.bmj.com

And that they were being urged to be careful in the frail with complex medical circumstances, rather than that Norway had stopped entirely.

And Bloomberg seems to suggest there is no link

Norway Moves to Calm Vaccine Anxiety After Elderly Deaths

Health authorities in Norway sought to allay safety concerns raised by the death of some elderly patients after they were vaccinated against Covid-19, saying there’s no evidence of a direct link.

www.bloomberg.com

I’ve only skim-read of course.

I saw reported on Twitter and I also read that in Norway most of the people in care homes are very frail.

 

[Amity Island]

Regarding the Norway deaths.

I'd of certainly expected any decent journalist to have picked up on this and published these very current, very relevant and very important events. Instead, it was "relegated" to "The Sun" and The Express" papers etc, the types of papers some people like to dismiss as being unreliable or sensationalist. No mention of these events by the BBC or other widely viewed and trusted TV outlets.

Funny how when 33 people, very elderly, very ill, people died say a "day" after having a vaccine their death is "not related", but when thousands of similar equally elderly, ill people die within 28 days of having a positive covid19 test, it was "definitely" a covid related death.

 

[mikeyB]

Very elderly, very ill folk are given vaccine I cannot think of any possible causation of death. Such folk can die anytime. Injection of what is a biologically inert substance that is intended to provoke the production of antibodies after a period of time without producing the disease is highly unlikely to have a systemic effect causing death, other than a severe allergic reaction which is easily diagnosed and treatable.

All that this shows that very old, very sick people can die anytime, and vaccination is is arguably a waste of good vaccine. There is a world of difference between such people and the older folk in this country in residential homes, who get vaccinated without any problem.

 

[Amity Island]

Very elderly, very ill folk are given vaccine I cannot think of any possible causation of death. Such folk can die anytime. Injection of what is a biologically inert substance that is intended to provoke the production of antibodies after a period of time without producing the disease is highly unlikely to have a systemic effect causing death, other than a severe allergic reaction which is easily diagnosed and treatable.

All that this shows that very old, very sick people can die anytime, and vaccination is is arguably a waste of good vaccine. There is a world of difference between such people and the older folk in this country in residential homes, who get vaccinated without any problem.

MikeyB,

The Norwegian Medicines Agency has investigated 13 of the 33 deaths so far and concluded that common adverse reactions of mRNA vaccines, such as fever, nausea, and diarrhoea, may have contributed to fatal outcomes in some of the frail patients. For those with the severest frailty, even relatively mild side effects can have serious consequences.

Norwegien Health Authorities are now reviewing their national vaccination programme as a result of these deaths, for the very elderly and frail because there is a point where the benefit of some covid19 protection is outweighed by potential adverse reactions and so forth.

There has also been wider concern that some patients haven't been given informed consent simply because they have not been shown the data sheet on adverse effects before taking the vaccine, in fact, they had been given this info after their vaccine.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I think the most worrying thing about this is that it might contribute to that creeping low-level doubt-generation antivax noise and might dissuade very different people who neither as elderly or as frail as the Norwegian population from accepting the vaccine

 

[Ref]

Q. Will the vaccine cause a rise in blood sugar readings?

A. There is no specific evidence of this. However, in general vaccines can cause some temporary disruption as per the flu vaccine.

What is likely to cause disruption and anxiety – so try to stay calm.

I had the Pfizer vaccine at the weekend and my BGs have not been the same since. They are normally quite 'spiky' but at the moment the highs are way higher than normal. May just be a coincidence. It'd be interesting to know if others experience this.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Diabetes UK have updated their vaccine page with information about side effects, ingredients, and some of the new vaccines becoming available

Coronavirus vaccines and diabetes

Most people with diabetes are in priority group six. In England, people with diabetes are now being invited to have their vaccine. Find out more about getting your vaccine.

www.diabetes.org.uk

 

[Alist33]

I had the Pfizer vaccine at the weekend and my BGs have not been the same since. They are normally quite 'spiky' but at the moment the highs are way higher than normal. May just be a coincidence. It'd be interesting to know if others experience this.

Hi I had my vaccine Pfizer on Thursday 5th Feb by evening on Friday 6th my BGs reading went off the scale, almost doubled when it had steadily been coming down with my low carb diet. I was scared to be honest although by today Monday morning I was getting better and down to my usual reading. My DN thinks it is most likely my body reacting to the vaccine. Probably worth the short spike and associated discomfort to know I have some protection but worth other Type 2 knowing the potential reaction.

 

[Amity Island]

Hi I had my vaccine Pfizer on Thursday 5th Feb by evening on Friday 6th my BGs reading went off the scale, almost doubled when it had steadily been coming down with my low carb diet. I was scared to be honest although by today Monday morning I was getting better and down to my usual reading. My DN thinks it is most likely my body reacting to the vaccine. Probably worth the short spike and associated discomfort to know I have some protection but worth other Type 2 knowing the potential reaction.

Hi Alist33,

Sorry to hear that, these vaccines are certainly not harmless by the looks of it, at least not for diabetics. Do you know if it was recorded and reported as an adverse reaction by the nurse/doctor?

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Do you know if it was recorded and reported as an adverse reaction by the nurse/doctor?

Regardless, it's probably sensible to report non-trivial issues via the usual Yellow Card system.

 

[Sharron1]

I watched the DUK seminar on this topic last night, and thought I would share some notes

(Unfortunately, my internet link went down part way through, so I missed a few items, so it anybody has any other notes that would be great.)

Q. Can there be serious allergic reaction after vaccination?

A. Very rare, only 2 in the UK so far.

Minor reaction (similar to flu jab) may happen.

However, the older you are, the less side effects there are likely to be! ( An advantage to being a ‘senior’!)

Q. Is the vaccine safe with blood thinning medications

A. Yes, safe with warfarin and other blood thinning drugs

Q. Should you take meds on the day you have your vaccine

A. yes

Q. Is one vaccine more suitable than another?

A. Both work and have very similar side effects, and provide protection within 10 to 15 days of 1st dose. Pfizer may be slightly more effective. The educated guess is that they will both provide protection for several months, and protection will remain until the second dose.

Q. Do you need the same vaccine for both doses?

A. This is preferred, but there is no harm from a different vaccine if there are availability problems.

Q. Will the vaccine cause a rise in blood sugar readings?

A. There is no specific evidence of this. However, in general vaccines can cause some temporary disruption as per the flu vaccine.

What is likely to cause disruption and anxiety – so try to stay calm.

Q. If someone has previously had a violent reaction to medications, is it safe for them?

A. Best to discuss this with a doctor if there has been a severe reaction at the level of needing medical intervention. Intolerance like minor food allergies should not cause a problem.

Q. If you have had COVID, do you still need the vaccine?

A. Yes. Amount and length of any immunity from this is currently unknown

Q. After 2 vaccine doses can you still get COVID?

A. Not known yet, but probably unlikely

Q. Do immune-suppressive make any difference?

A. Not known yet – it may reduce long term effectiveness

Q. Can you request a specific vaccine

A. No

Thank you. In my excitement about the vaccines (not my turn yet) I did wonder if it could have any effect on sugar levels. More interest than concern. Arm poised ready for jab1

 

[trophywench]

Question - if you took a hypodermic needle of the same dimensions that they use for Covid jabs, and got a medic to plunge it into that muscle in the arm/shoulder at some random time - would your BG increase in a similar way as it did with the jab?

How does your body react to trauma? Mine reacted with needing 3x the amount of insulin for a while (like weeks and weeks) after I broke my kneecap.

It's all TRAUMA and yes the BG does increase !

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Question - if you took a hypodermic needle of the same dimensions that they use for Covid jabs, and got a medic to plunge it into that muscle in the arm/shoulder at some random time - would your BG increase in a similar way as it did with the jab?

I doubt it. It seemed to me about the same as the regular flu vaccine process.

That does cause BG changes in some people, but my impression is that these vaccines are having a bit more of an effect (perhaps because we have relatively little immunity to this spike protein whereas for flu we all have some (if only from previous years of vaccinations)). I don't think we can blame just the physical damage of the injection.