driving licence revoked

[JPM8426]

Hi all,
My driving licence was revoked back in September 2018. I have had Type 1 diabetes now for 16 years and have always had good control and have never suffered any further complications that this illness can cause. I have held a full, clean UK driving licence for approximately 17 years. Due to the line of work that I do, I was informed that I would need a licence upgrade to allow me to tow vehicles over the weight limit of 3.5 tonne.
I was required to attend a medical and was sent an appointment letter with, appointment date, address, consultants name and list of items to take with me i.e. medication, photographic I.D, blood glucose meters with 3 months continuous readings. During the appointment, the consultant asked me various questions relating to my condition i.e. diagnosis date etc. He asked to see my meters and began writing down any readings 3.0mmol and under and asking me, what caused them to be so low and why within a 3 month period prior to the appointment. To the best of my ability, I gave a reason explaining my very active lifestyle of working shifts, having two young children, being a regular gym enthusiast and playing football often, explaining that any of the following could have played a part in the reason why my levels had fallen so low. Ultimately I couldn't provide him with a definitive reason as to why, unless I had a diary or some sort of log. He continued to ask questions regarding my low readings despite what I had told him, as well as ask me if I'd ever required assistance from anybody else to deal with any hypo's I have suffered, to which I replied "NO, unless you want to count me asking my wife to get me a snack or drink from the fridge. After the appointment a realised I had forgotten my I.D and had to drive 90 minutes home and back to retrieve it in order for my report to be completed. Ten days later I received the distressing news that my driving licence had been revoked due to the consultant stating in his report that I had impaired awareness to hypoglycaemia due to not providing a reason for low readings within my meter.
I am absolutely devastated and cant believe this has happened. The experience I have been subject to and not being able to drive has had such a catastrophic impact on my life, I've been referred to counselling to help me deal with the trauma in going through.
Has anybody else been through or going through a similar situation that could provide any advice or help.

 

[trophywench]

Well - presented with that info - sorry but I have to agree with him.

The treatment plan has to be to enable us so that we notice hypo symptoms well before our BG gets that low because whether any of us 'think' so or not - it's clinically proven that our (ie human beings) brains absolutely lose 100% proper function once the BG gets to 3.3. Hence it's important to treat dropping BGs BEFORE it gets anywhere near that low. End of story.

As such - something needs to change in your treatment. Get yourself to your OWN consultant PDQ and get proper personal advice on changing it. It may help you to use a Libre BG monitoring system full time, and normally the NHS prescription of these is led by our hospital diabetes clinic. To get and urgent appointment with them ring em and say it's because you've lost your awareness and had your licence revoked, hence you're desperate! (Lay it on with a trowel if necessary.)

Good luck - it can be done - but you've got to allow enough time into your life to pay sufficient attention to yourself and your own health to make it work.

 

[Thebearcametoo]

That sounds like a huge blow. Have you been able to speak to your own consultant about it? Do the DVLA give an indication of how long you need to have good readings before your licence would be reinstated?

 

[Jodee]

So sorry you experienced this JPM.

Hope you check in with your own diabetes nurse or doc concerning this and Your blood glucose levels become more stable, (not too low nor too high) in order for you to resume work as desired.

Best wishes

 

[Deleted member 22730]

Hi all,
My driving licence was revoked back in September 2018. I have had Type 1 diabetes now for 16 years and have always had good control and have never suffered any further complications that this illness can cause. I have held a full, clean UK driving licence for approximately 17 years. Due to the line of work that I do, I was informed that I would need a licence upgrade to allow me to tow vehicles over the weight limit of 3.5 tonne.
I was required to attend a medical and was sent an appointment letter with, appointment date, address, consultants name and list of items to take with me i.e. medication, photographic I.D, blood glucose meters with 3 months continuous readings. During the appointment, the consultant asked me various questions relating to my condition i.e. diagnosis date etc. He asked to see my meters and began writing down any readings 3.0mmol and under and asking me, what caused them to be so low and why within a 3 month period prior to the appointment. To the best of my ability, I gave a reason explaining my very active lifestyle of working shifts, having two young children, being a regular gym enthusiast and playing football often, explaining that any of the following could have played a part in the reason why my levels had fallen so low. Ultimately I couldn't provide him with a definitive reason as to why, unless I had a diary or some sort of log. He continued to ask questions regarding my low readings despite what I had told him, as well as ask me if I'd ever required assistance from anybody else to deal with any hypo's I have suffered, to which I replied "NO, unless you want to count me asking my wife to get me a snack or drink from the fridge. After the appointment a realised I had forgotten my I.D and had to drive 90 minutes home and back to retrieve it in order for my report to be completed. Ten days later I received the distressing news that my driving licence had been revoked due to the consultant stating in his report that I had impaired awareness to hypoglycaemia due to not providing a reason for low readings within my meter.
I am absolutely devastated and cant believe this has happened. The experience I have been subject to and not being able to drive has had such a catastrophic impact on my life, I've been referred to counselling to help me deal with the trauma in going through.
Has anybody else been through or going through a similar situation that could provide any advice or help.

Hi there, welcome to the forum. It may help to discuss this with Diabetes UK's advocacy service. We'd be able to have a chat with you, find out a bit more and give you some advice. You can contact us on 0345 123 2399 Mon-Fri, 9am-6pm.

 

[JPM8426]

Thanks for your reply.

Something is wrong here then if what you're saying is right. My surgery and medical staff must be failing me, because whenever I have my reviews I am 100% honest with them, and why wouldn't I, I'd only be lying to myself. Every time I have my bloods done they always come back as good with no concerns. My current GP and previous diabetic specialist nurse are both 100% aware of the situation I'm in, and both have wrote to the DVLA expressing there concerns. My GP states I have "excellent control" in one of his letters, I'm confused. Every time I feel low I get symptoms, I was of the understanding that if I had lost awareness I wouldn't recognize any symptoms and I would have experienced a lot more severe hypo's. I haven't had any 3rd party assistance probably since I was diagnosed, about 14 years ago. Also after further reviewing the results that the consultant wrote in his report, the majority of them where whilst I was sleeping, but the symptoms in most cases awoke me, and in other my wife may have woken me but I've always dealt with the situation myself.
I'm not naive to my condition and drive professionally for a living, working for Highways England. I have always known the cause of my hypo's i.e. not eating enough carbs after gym or football or having too much insulin before eating and not eating enough (eye's too big for my belly). also, although I can't be 100% sure on this, during the time prior to my consultation I'm sure I was dieting (high protein, low carbs) because I wasn't happy with myself.

I will take your advice and look into it for sure, I could possibly loose my job because of this (gutted). I have looked into BG pumps in the past but have always been told they get in the way whilst I'm training or playing football. I shall give it another look.

Cheers.

 

[Jodee]

Thanks for your reply.

Something is wrong here then if what you're saying is right. My surgery and medical staff must be failing me, because whenever I have my reviews I am 100% honest with them, and why wouldn't I, I'd only be lying to myself. Every time I have my bloods done they always come back as good with no concerns. My current GP and previous diabetic specialist nurse are both 100% aware of the situation I'm in, and both have wrote to the DVLA expressing there concerns. My GP states I have "excellent control" in one of his letters, I'm confused. Every time I feel low I get symptoms, I was of the understanding that if I had lost awareness I wouldn't recognize any symptoms and I would have experienced a lot more severe hypo's. I haven't had any 3rd party assistance probably since I was diagnosed, about 14 years ago. Also after further reviewing the results that the consultant wrote in his report, the majority of them where whilst I was sleeping, but the symptoms in most cases awoke me, and in other my wife may have woken me but I've always dealt with the situation myself.
I'm not naive to my condition and drive professionally for a living, working for Highways England. I have always known the cause of my hypo's i.e. not eating enough carbs after gym or football or having too much insulin before eating and not eating enough (eye's too big for my belly). also, although I can't be 100% sure on this, during the time prior to my consultation I'm sure I was dieting (high protein, low carbs) because I wasn't happy with myself.

I will take your advice and look into it for sure, I could possibly loose my job because of this (gutted). I have looked into BG pumps in the past but have always been told they get in the way whilst I'm training or playing football. I shall give it another look.

Cheers.

Just a link for you to recap the hypos JPM https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/low-blood-sugar-hypoglycaemia/

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I haven't had any 3rd party assistance probably since I was diagnosed, about 14 years ago. Also after further reviewing the results that the consultant wrote in his report, the majority of them where whilst I was sleeping, but the symptoms in most cases awoke me, and in other my wife may have woken me but I've always dealt with the situation myself.

So sorry to read about your experiences. Thanks for the extra information and clarification you have provided, which includes some important details. My understanding is that loss of awareness needs to be almost total for a ban (many people are allowed to continue to drive with a degree of impaired awareness). The very clear rule is around severe hypoglycaemia more than once a year, but your posts don't seem to suggest you are needing 3rd party help. Importantly hypoglycaemia at night is not supposed to be counted.

It feels like they may have had reason for concerns over your level of awareness, but that it may well be worth asking for another review - certainly in the light of your nocturnal hypos. Have you ever been asked to complete a Gold Score or Clarke Score questionnaire to evaluate your hypo awareness?

At the end of the day, none of us wants to put other road users at risk, but it's also important that each case is dealt with fairly, and that people are not denied their driving license when they don't need to.

I will take your advice and look into it for sure, I could possibly loose my job because of this (gutted). I have looked into BG pumps in the past but have always been told they get in the way whilst I'm training or playing football. I shall give it another look.

Cheers.

There are professional sports stars using insulin pumps (including fairly contact-heavy sports like American Football). There are usually ways and means of getting a pump to work for you. It may be that you could simply disconnect during training/matches. I certainly used to disconnect my pump when at the gym for an hour. If I'd still have had it on, I would have turned the basal insulin profile to next to nothing anyway!

 

[JPM8426]

That sounds like a huge blow. Have you been able to speak to your own consultant about it? Do the DVLA give an indication of how long you need to have good readings before your licence would be reinstated?

When it first happened back in September, the DVLA informed me that normally with cases like this a confirmation letter from my Dr is normally enough to have my licence returned, however this was not the case. I payed £60 for him to provide the letter and the DVLA then said, it wasn't enough. I then asked them what other information I needed to provide, to which they sent me a document with four highlighted pieces of information they required;
1 There is no evidence of impaired awareness of hypoglycemia.
2 No hypo events requiring the assistance of another person in the last 12 months.
3 There must be adequate control of the condition with regular blood glucose monitoring, at least twice daily and at time relevant to driving.
4 There are no other complications of diabetes that would affect safe driving.
Over a period of 2 months I gathered this information and yet another report from my Dr costing me another £60. They responded by informing me that the information I had provided them wasn't enough. When I called them to ask what else they needed they said, a letter from your Dr is normally suffice (I almost lost the plot).
Still to this day they haven't told me how long, soon it'll have been 8 months.
They are the worst organisation I've ever had to deal with, absolutely no customer service skills whatsoever. Every time I called them, I spoke to someone different and had to repeat end explain myself over and over again even though I could hear them typing away what it was I was telling them. I asked them if I could speak to someone from their medical department and was told No, I had to go through them. A few weeks after asking, I spoke to a male call handler and he provided me with the information I wanted for the medical department. I asked him why I wasn't allowed it previously and he told me, it should have been given to me at the start.

Hi there, welcome to the forum. It may help to discuss this with Diabetes UK's advocacy service. We'd be able to have a chat with you, find out a bit more and give you some advice. You can contact us on 0345 123 2399 Mon-Fri, 9am-6pm.

 

[JPM8426]

So sorry to read about your experiences. Thanks for the extra information and clarification you have provided, which includes some important details. My understanding is that loss of awareness needs to be almost total for a ban (many people are allowed to continue to drive with a degree of impaired awareness). The very clear rule is around severe hypoglycaemia more than once a year, but your posts don't seem to suggest you are needing 3rd party help. Importantly hypoglycaemia at night is not supposed to be counted.

It feels like they may have had reason for concerns over your level of awareness, but that it may well be worth asking for another review - certainly in the light of your nocturnal hypos. Have you ever been asked to complete a Gold Score or Clarke Score questionnaire to evaluate your hypo awareness?

At the end of the day, none of us wants to put other road users at risk, but it's also important that each case is dealt with fairly, and that people are not denied their driving license when they don't need to.



There are professional sports stars using insulin pumps (including fairly contact-heavy sports like American Football). There are usually ways and means of getting a pump to work for you. It may be that you could simply disconnect during training/matches. I certainly used to disconnect my pump when at the gym for an hour. If I'd still have had it on, I would have turned the basal insulin profile to next to nothing anyway!

Thanks for your post.

Yes i did ask them for a second opinion, not just because I was unhappy with result but because the professor who I had my consultation with lied in a reply to a complaint letter I posted to the DVLA. He stated that after our consultation, we had a conversation whereby he had to inform me that he wasn't responsible for the revocation of driving licences. NO SUCH CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE. when I asked, I was informed by the DVLA that I couldn't see anybody else because there were only 5 diabetolegists in the country and he was the closest one to me.

Another point I'd like to raise is that, on the day of my consultation I was asked questions regarding events that had happened 3 months prior. I might be wrong in saying this, but if I was informed that I had to take a log or diary of any hypo's I'd experienced I'd have been much better prepared!! for instance, can anyone here honestly tell me exactly what they where doing on the 4/3/19 at 10:33?
I might just be looking for faults here with this one, after my consultation the professor who I was seen by must have known what he was going to document in his report yet he still allowed me to drive home and back to retrieve my passport, which took me 90 minutes, then another 45 minutes to return home. If he thought I had impaired awarness, why would anyone allow that to happen? His response to this was, and I quote, upon appearance he looked ok to drive. I had both of my glucose monitors with me, he could have asked me to perform a test but he didn't. Duty of care!!!!

I've never been asked to complete a Gold Score or Clarke Score.

You are absolutely right in what you are saying about putting other road users at risk, I used to witness the aftermath of all sorts of RTC's whilst working as a traffic officer, so I'm definitely not naive or ignorant as to the dangers that are out there. I understand totally as to why these medicals have to take place I really do, but in the real world getting away from peoples illnesses and other conditions, every road user is a danger, it only takes a split second or lapse in concentration to cause a serious accident (FACT).

I can confirm one thing, since this has happened my BM's have been almost stable. a few highs but nothing seriously high and not one low spell (hypo). Probably because I'm not training as vigorously as I used to or playing as much football (because I can't get to the gym or to certain games). And I've put over a stone on in weight (all that hard work gone, just like that, hehehehehe).

Thanks for all your post's guy's