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Do we need carbs?

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ypauly

Well-Known Member
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Type 1
A discussion has started on another forum I visit and it's actually quite a debate. The question is "do we actually need carbs?" in the sense of could we live a normal life without them at all.


I am of the opinion we do need them but there are several saying we don't, and they seem quite knowledgeable on the subject.



ETA It come from somebody wanting to start a zero carb diet.
 
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But there are carbs in most things even if its a small %

But imagine how much weight you could loose from no carbs & hardly any insulin????
 
I'm sure it doesn't work like that! The body can only handle so much protein I suppose that's why many of us have to inject for eggs. And you wouldn't be losing weight probably more likely be maintained by the fats you'd eat instead.

Carbs are in everything though! You'd literally be having meat and cheese and dairy, probably smell pretty bad too ha.
 
Depends what you define as 'a normal life'.

If 'a normal life' is 'be like everyone else' then yes, I think you need carbs because our entire society is built on the idea you might eat them from time to time.

If 'a normal life' is 'be healthy and thrive' then no, you don't need carbs. There is no need for dietary carbs at all. Your body can run perfectly safely and adequately on ketones. There is a school of thought that your brain may need glucose specifically and can't metabolise ketones (can't remember if this is true or not) but in any case, protein can be converted to glucose, thus providing that glucose. Problems tend to occur when you get the balance wrong. If you cut out carbs but replace entirely with protein, there is a theory that you could screw up your kidneys. If you offset the deficit with fat, it's still not 100% clear whether some fats are worse than others, particularly when you start drilling down to whether total cholesterol or the HDL/LDL split is more important.

I'm also not convinced you will constantly lose weight and be really, really thin from not eating carbs - your body will still need insulin so you are still physically capable of storing fat and if you eat enough, you'll still be taking in enough 'stuff' to create to be stored.

Anyone who says you have to eat at least Xg of carbs a day isn't being nutritionally accurate. Oh, and to quickly pre-empt a few expected responses, let me be clear I am talking purely about adults and not children. I have no idea nor interest in discussing dietary advice for kids.

The situation is more complex for T1s...I can already hear the cry of 'but how do you stop having hypos if you aren't eating carbs?" To which the answer is, try taking less insulin, but bear in mind that insulin is a very imperfect tool, does not exactly mimic the action of 'normal' insulin. So in some cases there might be a need to eat carbs purely because it's biologically impossible for the person to accurately dose their insulin otherwise.
 
I suppose that depends on your definition of 'need' really.

In terms of feeding the world? Yes absolutely. We cannot suport the global population without them.

Physiologically you can make glucose (which is all carbs provide really) from other sources - dietary fat and protein, there are tribes in Africa and innuit populations that eat next to no carbs at all - though I'm not 100% convinced this is a practical/viable/wise approach for someone with 1000's of years of European gene pool behind them.

I'm not of the opinion that carbs are my enemy (the luxury of injectable insulin I guess) - they are just something I cannot freely eat with impunity.

All things in moderation etc etc.
 
On the basis that most of the things I like are carb-rich, then yes!! I need carbs!!

Andy 🙂
 
I think we need some carbs, and as has already been pointed mostthings have carbs in them anyway.

The thing that seems most important is the type of carbs we have and the slow release ones are better for us.

For me personally I aim for a balanced diet with a variety of food so that when I sometimes fall off the wagon and have sweets as a treat they have less of an impact than stuffing myself silly all the time with the things.
 
A discussion has started on another forum I visit and it's actually quite a debate. The question is "do we actually need carbs?" in the sense of could we live a normal life without them at all.


I am of the opinion we do need them but there are several saying we don't, and they seem quite knowledgeable on the subject.



ETA It come from somebody wanting to start a zero carb diet.
Carbs are the human body's preferred energy source, but it is extremely efficient at using other sources to metabolise into glucose in their absence. However, certain groups would suffer if they ate no carbs - children, pregnant women, sportsmen and women, people with certain health conditions, etc. A varied diet, something of everything in moderation, is likely to the best option IMO.
 
A discussion has started on another forum I visit and it's actually quite a debate. The question is "do we actually need carbs?" in the sense of could we live a normal life without them at all.


I am of the opinion we do need them but there are several saying we don't, and they seem quite knowledgeable on the subject.



ETA It come from somebody wanting to start a zero carb diet.

we are a carbon based life form with carbon forming 18% of the body and vital in all cells and functions.

so isn't the question about whether or not we need dietary carbon in an easily accessible format simply otiose /rhetorical ?

the human race were herbivores before they were ever omnivores.
 
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I wonder why we have so many copies of the salivary amylase gene if we hadn't evolved to eat carbs as part of a normal diet.
Amylase is thought to have played a key role in human evolution in allowing humans an alternative to fruit and protein. A duplication of the pancreatic amylase gene developed independently in humans and rodents, further suggesting its importance. The salivary amylase levels found in the human lineage are six to eight times higher in humans than in chimpanzees, which are mostly fruit eaters and ingest little starch relative to humans
Here's a set of articles that discuss zero carb diets.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/1...ets-i-can-there-be-a-carbohydrate-deficiency/
The writer is the advocate of a lowish (30%) carb diet . These are different arguments from those often used and come from a paleoish perspective.
 
the human race were herbivores before they were ever omnivores.

I'm not sure that's right is it?

Surely our nomadic hunter-gatherer forebears (cave paintings of mammoth and antelope hunts etc) had a relatively high protein diet with whatever nuts/berries/roots could be gleaned when the opportunity arose.

Isn't that the basis of the palaeo diet?

My understanding was that it took a long time for us to develop settlements and agricultural practices that could provide sufficient sustenance from grains etc.
 
Therein lies the inherent flaw with the Paleo Diet - it's near impossible to tell what our ancestors ate that far back, or even if it's even relevant.

Depending on who you choose to believe, we were either all out there hunting mammoths and wooly rhinos and living off what was basically BBQ food, or we were eating lots of fruits and grains. Then adding to this, there is a school of though that suggests genetic variance happens very slowly and we are physically the same as we were 100,000 years ago.

What we do know is that in the period roughly between 10,000BC and 6,000BC, we definitely started cultivating the staples - wheat, barley, rice etc.

We also know that populations can diverge very quickly and that advantageous mutations also happen quickly. The common example to cite here is alcohol. Historically, if you were European, your water intake would come from an alcoholic drink as the alcohol removed toxins from the water. If you were east Asian, your water intake would come boiled water, which also obviously has the toxins removed.

As a result, it is well documented that a substantial chunk of the East Asian population do not process alcohol in the same way that Europeans do, leading to a phenomena called Asian Flush (or more properly, alcohol flush reaction). The obvious conclusion is European populations had a selection pressure which meant those who could process booze well would survive. Asian populations didn't have the same selection pressure and so the gene sequence required is less widespread.

Don't worry, all this is leading somewhere....

...similarly, once people started eating grains (whenever that was), almost certainly those who had the gene to produce amylase were the most successful in surviving. The fact we produce amylase should be evidence enough that people have eaten carbs for millennia and even if the 'original' humans didn't, that's irrelevant. The point is, we can. As a side note, the fact that if you put starch in your mouth it near instantly turns into sugar should be something to think about for people with diabetes.

None of this, however, changes the basic biological fact. There is absolutely nothing in a carbohydrate that cannot be obtained from another food source. Carbohydrates are literally just energy and nothing else. Yes, certain carbohydrate sources will have vitamins in them but interestingly, the bulk carbs (bread, rice, potatoes) offer next to no nutritional value beyond energy - certainly when you compare them to say, broccoli or beans.

Therefore provided a person's diet contains all the vitamins they need and the energy they need, I would imagine they could safely not eat carbohydrate and suffer no ill effects as a result. How practical this is, is another matter.

If we want to get really philosophical about this, carbs are why we have civilisation. Carbs are an energy dense food source, which means you don't have to go out hunting all the time to find a rabbit to eat. If you've got a secure food supply that gives you all the energy you need, you have more freedom to do other things. And that's when people start doing things like putting a big rock on top of some round logs and giving it a push, and finding out what happens when you squidge some clay together and leave it in the fire for a bit.

So in that roundabout way, eat however many carbs works for you. For some it's none. For some it's plenty. You don't need them, but you don't necessarily need to cut them out either.
 
That's interesting about the alcohol - I knew Europeans used to drink ale rather than water, but didn't know some other population groups lacked the ability to process alcohol. Though I think I've heard many Asian people lack the enzymes needed to digest cow's milk and dairy products. I wonder how any humans developed those enzymes, seeing as cow's milk is intended for calves?! All very interesting (sorry if off-topic lol!).
 
I'm sure we don't need the carbs but after all these millennia, our digestion isn't set up to cope with such high protein diets and I'm sure it wouldn't be fun for the dieter getting used to it, or anyone who had to live in his vicinity either. Intestinal flora can cause problems with any huge change in eating habits just ask my chum the vegetarian who, after his divorce, went back to eating meat... for about two miserable weeks. He'd been veggie for 18 years hadn't the wherewithal to digest that kind of protein any more.
 
I'm not sure that's right is it?

Surely our nomadic hunter-gatherer forebears (cave paintings of mammoth and antelope hunts etc) had a relatively high protein diet with whatever nuts/berries/roots could be gleaned when the opportunity arose.

Isn't that the basis of the palaeo diet?

My understanding was that it took a long time for us to develop settlements and agricultural practices that could provide sufficient sustenance from grains etc.

Humans basically evolved 5 million years ago but only started eating meat ( probably as scavengers) 1.5. million years ago. Hunting came later, meat and hunting are credited with fuelling the evolution of the big human brain, there was extra protein from meat and hunting required skills, planning and co-operation.
Also meat is allegedly responsible for the spread of humanity since weaning time was reduced with meat and women could have more babies.
But the real explosion of human populations came only about 10,000 years ago with grains - infants were weaned even earlier (allegedly) on porridge and bread and women could have a baby much more frequently.

Hunter-gathering is a comparatively short lived, comparatively recent phase in human evolution and not the natural condition of (wo)mankind.
The cave paintings you refer to are just from yesterday, from our recent ancestors who over wintered the last Ice Age in the Pyrenean Refuges.

We have also got the evidence of the Appendix , which is often said to be a the fossil remnant of a second stomach ( like the one our cousin, the Cow has) used to double process poor nutritional veggies.
 
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There are some that argue a low or no carb diet can contribute to depression and should be avoided if you are prone to depression or bi-polar disorder. The "Atkins Anger Syndrome" or something, where there is an increase in tension, irritability and anger. It lowers levels of seretonin in the brain. It can interfere with anti-depressant therapy too for the same reasons. Not sure if that would be the case after an extended period of time and the body has re-adjusted and utilised the new diet (?).
 
Humans basically evolved 5 million years ago...

I was thinking more homo-sapiens rather than going all the way back into homonid territory. Not that I really know much about any it! 😉

Back to the OP though... I would think that no, zero carb is not a good idea.

Low-ish or moderate on the other hand (not that those terms have any kind of definition other than 'relative to what you are used to') seems entirely sensible for a person with a wonky pancreas/metabolism, as long as the diet is nutritionally adequate.
 
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We have also got the evidence of the Appendix , which is often said to be a the fossil remnant of a second stomach ( like the one our cousin, the Cow has) used to double process poor nutritional veggies.

I knew I would learn a few things when I asked the question but this is the most interesting:D



I wonder how long it would take to get that stomach back if we stuck to the right diet.


And thank you all for the replies I now consider myself an expert.
 
Hi paul, I could eat fish for England & sometimes just have that for dinner. I dont think i would last all day with no carbs. Yesterday was on the road 6am,drove 200m, full day work,200m back , Got home 12 midnight. Couldnt do without CARBS 🙂
 
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