Do any T2s actually follow the eatwell guide / eatwell plate?

[Windy]

I did a DESMOND course last week and was shown the eatwell plate, which comprised of 1/3 of carbohydrates:
potatoes, wholegrain cereal, cous cous, bread, pittas, bagels, rice, spaghetti, pasta, porridge and wheatabix, with a note that you should choose wholegrain or higher fibre versions. I ate wholemeal bread, brown rice etc. before diagnosis, so couldn't swap white bread etc for slower digested wholemeal anyway.

The ladies teaching the course were lovely, and I don't doubt that they're faithfully following the syllabus, but I question the advice to tell me (and my not wholly functioning pancreas) to eat loads of carbs.

I'm mindful that I'm biased, as prior to the course, I'd read Michael Moseley's "Blood Sugar Diet", the recipe book that went with that, one on intermittent fasting, both of Prof Roy Taylor's books, three of his research papers (funded by Diabetes UK), and due to all of this have been following a low carb, 800 calorie a day diet for the last 5 weeks, in the hope that I might get diabetes remission or if not, at least weight loss and better control of my blood sugars and a lower HbA1c (80mmol/mol at diagnosis, review due in Feb '22).

My fasting BS levels for the last 4 days have been: 5.7, 5.6, 5 and 4.8. Highest 2 hour post meal BS was 6.5.

I know it's government guidance, and I probably should take it on board, but I had to bite my tongue. I've got the second half of the course next week. I'm gobby/ questioning/ challenging by nature and it was an effort to not say anything about maybe having a bit less carbs than the eatwell guide suggested.

I found the percentage of T2 people following standard diet advice getting diabetes remission is 5%, and the percentage following Roy Taylor's diet was 70% remission. I know which percentage I like better.

Do any T2s follow the Eatwell guide?
Cheers, Sarah

 

[Eddy Edson]

Do any T2s follow the Eatwell guide?

I think approximately nobody follows any country's dietary guidelines.

Which is a pity, because they are far, far better for you than what people do actually eat.

 

[Windy]

I definitely didn't pre diagnosis. Kitkats, crisps and mini cheddars featured more significantly in my diet than the guidelines suggest they should

 

[rebrascora]

The "eatwell" plate is a bit of a bug bear here on the forum for many of us. I am sure it is very good for non diabetics, but it really doesn't go far enough as regards carb reduction for Type 2 and it is a source of frustration because as you are aware from the success rates, it just doesn't work for the majority.
I think you also have to remember that the people who follow Prof Roy Taylor's advice or Michael Mosely's are probably very self motivated whereas many people on the DESMOND course may just feel obliged to attend. It is the same with this forum..... people who come here are looking for knowledge and guidance but there will be a lot of people who don't want to make the effort to change and just want to take the tablets and hope/expect that will take care of it like medication does for most other ailments. You can kind of see why DESMOND can't afford to be too radical as those people are going to think... "You have to be joking!!! No bread, pasta, rice and chips as well as no cake and biscuits!!" I know that is an extreme interpretation of low carb but you can see that it would turn a lot of people off, especially if they aren't really engaged. Personally I think the info needs to come from people who have "walked the walk" and taken on those challenges themselves with dietary and lifestyle changes, to be impactful, which is why the forum is so effective. It is not, "Do as I say" but "Do as I do, and yes it is difficult at first, but it gets easier and it is really rewarding and you too can feel so much better, like I do!"

 

[janw]

Well the high carbs are very much reduced on my plate and some are gone completely as they caused too high a spikes, so to that effect, nope, don't follow the Eatwell plate - it doesn't sound particularly geared to T2s! My plate is more a portion of protein, and low carb veggies, and a certain amount of fat (dairy has to be limited due to adverse effect on my COPD) - nothing is ever straightforward, no matter how hard we try lol. Today has to be an almost dairy-free day as I'm struggling with my lungs, double dose of the steroid inhaler this morning should, hopefully, help that settle. No one size fits all, although the Eatwell might suit a few, for others it cannot be on the agenda. We have to find a way to suit our own individual needs and tolerances. I guess those ladies are just doing their job, whether they think the plan is good or not matters not, they have a service to deliver.

 

[Windy]

Thanks Barbara and JanW.
I am very motivated as diabetes and bad outcomes from diabetes are in my family, and I'd like to minimise my risk of them. I'm much more likely to follow the advice of you and the other T2s who've "walked the walk" like you say.
Cheers for responding. I'll take the rest of the DESMOND course with a pinch of salt and try not to be disruptive.
Sarah

 

[grovesy]

I thought the figures for Taylor was nearer 50% remission.

 

[Windy]

NHS England press release says "The Diabetes UK-funded ‘DiRECT’ trial saw almost half of those who went on a low calorie diet achieve remission of their Type 2 diabetes after one year. A quarter of participants achieved a 15kg or more weight loss, and of these, 86% put their Type 2 diabetes into remission."
But I think it depends how long you've been diabetic for and how much of your pancreas is left functioning/able to recover.
But there's three studies, and they all state different percentages. So who knows!?

 

[Eddy Edson]

NHS England press release says "The Diabetes UK-funded ‘DiRECT’ trial saw almost half of those who went on a low calorie diet achieve remission of their Type 2 diabetes after one year. A quarter of participants achieved a 15kg or more weight loss, and of these, 86% put their Type 2 diabetes into remission."
But I think it depends how long you've been diabetic for and how much of your pancreas is left functioning/able to recover.
But there's three studies, and they all state different percentages. So who knows!?

It depended on how much weight loss, mainly, with most "non-responders" being people with diabetes for more than 5 years.

 

[Leadinglights]

I had a long discussion with my daughter recently as she sees people at the antenatal clinics with gestational diabetes and they have seen the diabetic midwife but often their diet is so carb heavy being a cheap option when they are trying to feed a family on a low budget. However they are basically told just to cut out cakes, biscuits and sugary drinks.
But they do have a lack of understanding of the concept of carbohydrates and the basis of many ethnic foods are carbs.
She was very impressed with the Carbs and Cals book I have as it does have many ethnic foods in there.
They also don't realise that metformin will only be of help if they change their diet.
For many people the Eat Well plate may be miles better than what they were having before and hopefully will then be a stepping stone for further adjustment.
Many people doing the DESMOND course will not have a clue whereas the people who come on this site will already have a good knowledge.

 

[Felinia]

I certainly don't follow the Eatwell plate. I usually have 2/3 plate veggies (excluding potato, rice, pasta) and 1/3 plate protein. I mostly have a cooked breakfast of egg, mushroom, tomato and occasionally bacon. Lunch is always salad or home made soup. But that doesn't mean I don't have carbs. I have the occasional 25gm slice wholemeal bread, or 2 new potatoes, plus the beans I add into my soups. Today for example I had one Oatibix with almond milk and blueberries for breakfast. Then there are the naturally occurring carbs in vegetables. I measure everything and come out around 90gm a day - today it will be 93gm.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I did a DESMOND course last week and was shown the eatwell plate, which comprised of 1/3 of carbohydrates:
potatoes, wholegrain cereal, cous cous, bread, pittas, bagels, rice, spaghetti, pasta, porridge and wheatabix, with a note that you should choose wholegrain or higher fibre versions. I ate wholemeal bread, brown rice etc. before diagnosis, so couldn't swap white bread etc for slower digested wholemeal anyway.

The ladies teaching the course were lovely, and I don't doubt that they're faithfully following the syllabus, but I question the advice to tell me (and my not wholly functioning pancreas) to eat loads of carbs.

I'm mindful that I'm biased, as prior to the course, I'd read Michael Moseley's "Blood Sugar Diet", the recipe book that went with that, one on intermittent fasting, both of Prof Roy Taylor's books, three of his research papers (funded by Diabetes UK), and due to all of this have been following a low carb, 800 calorie a day diet for the last 5 weeks, in the hope that I might get diabetes remission or if not, at least weight loss and better control of my blood sugars and a lower HbA1c (80mmol/mol at diagnosis, review due in Feb '22).

My fasting BS levels for the last 4 days have been: 5.7, 5.6, 5 and 4.8. Highest 2 hour post meal BS was 6.5.

I know it's government guidance, and I probably should take it on board, but I had to bite my tongue. I've got the second half of the course next week. I'm gobby/ questioning/ challenging by nature and it was an effort to not say anything about maybe having a bit less carbs than the eatwell guide suggested.

I found the percentage of T2 people following standard diet advice getting diabetes remission is 5%, and the percentage following Roy Taylor's diet was 70% remission. I know which percentage I like better.

Do any T2s follow the Eatwell guide?
Cheers, Sarah

I followed the "pies and donuts" diet when I was diagnosed.

 

[grovesy]

NHS England press release says "The Diabetes UK-funded ‘DiRECT’ trial saw almost half of those who went on a low calorie diet achieve remission of their Type 2 diabetes after one year. A quarter of participants achieved a 15kg or more weight loss, and of these, 86% put their Type 2 diabetes into remission."
But I think it depends how long you've been diabetic for and how much of your pancreas is left functioning/able to recover.
But there's three studies, and they all state different percentages. So who knows!?

That quote is saying almost half of those who did the low calorie diet went into remission. THE 86% is referring to the quarter that lost over 15 kgs in weight.

 

[Gwynn]

I decided from the get-go that the advice frm a fellow patient in hospital was worth investigating rather than blindly following the 'Eat Well' diet given to me on a sheet as I left the hospital a week later. My inestigations led me to this forum and to some clarity that the 'Eat Well' diet is not good for Type 2 Diabetics. So I went low carb, high protein, high fat. Lost tons of weight. Went into unofficial (as yet) remission.

I also suspect that the 'Eat Well' diet would still have been better than my chocolate, wine gums, and whisky diet at diagnosis !!! 🙂

 

[Windy]

That quote is saying almost half of those who did the low calorie diet went into remission. THE 86% is referring to the quarter that lost over 15 kgs in weight.

You're quite correct @grovesy. Sorry, I was rushing to leave the house and skim read it. The actual paper says "Diabetes remission was achieved in 68 (46%) participants in the intervention group and six (4%) participants in the control group (odds ratio 19·7, 95% CI 7·8–49·8; p<0·0001)."
You're completely right, it was nearer to 50%. My apologies.

 

[grovesy]

You're quite correct @grovesy. Sorry, I was rushing to leave the house and skim read it. The actual paper says "Diabetes remission was achieved in 68 (46%) participants in the intervention group and six (4%) participants in the control group (odds ratio 19·7, 95% CI 7·8–49·8; p<0·0001)."
You're completely right, it was nearer to 50%. My apologies.

No problem!

 

[ianf0ster]

I did a DESMOND course last week and was shown the eatwell plate, which comprised of 1/3 of carbohydrates:
potatoes, wholegrain cereal, cous cous, bread, pittas, bagels, rice, spaghetti, pasta, porridge and wheatabix, with a note that you should choose wholegrain or higher fibre versions. I ate wholemeal bread, brown rice etc. before diagnosis, so couldn't swap white bread etc for slower digested wholemeal anyway.

The ladies teaching the course were lovely, and I don't doubt that they're faithfully following the syllabus, but I question the advice to tell me (and my not wholly functioning pancreas) to eat loads of carbs.

I'm mindful that I'm biased, as prior to the course, I'd read Michael Moseley's "Blood Sugar Diet", the recipe book that went with that, one on intermittent fasting, both of Prof Roy Taylor's books, three of his research papers (funded by Diabetes UK), and due to all of this have been following a low carb, 800 calorie a day diet for the last 5 weeks, in the hope that I might get diabetes remission or if not, at least weight loss and better control of my blood sugars and a lower HbA1c (80mmol/mol at diagnosis, review due in Feb '22).

My fasting BS levels for the last 4 days have been: 5.7, 5.6, 5 and 4.8. Highest 2 hour post meal BS was 6.5.

I know it's government guidance, and I probably should take it on board, but I had to bite my tongue. I've got the second half of the course next week. I'm gobby/ questioning/ challenging by nature and it was an effort to not say anything about maybe having a bit less carbs than the eatwell guide suggested.

I found the percentage of T2 people following standard diet advice getting diabetes remission is 5%, and the percentage following Roy Taylor's diet was 70% remission. I know which percentage I like better.

Do any T2s follow the Eatwell guide?
Cheers, Sarah

Yes I ate to the EatWell guide and that is why I got type 2 diabetes even though I was always slim TOFI ( a Thin Outside Fat Inside) diabetic.
Because of being a TOFI I went Low Carb rather than Low Calorie, though I hear that the remission rates are similar (with Low Carb remission being a little higher and independent of how long a person has been diabetic).
Naturally I ditched it as soon as my BG monitor showed me what a 'healthy' breakfast of whole oat porridge and large banana did t my blood glucose!

EatWell may be healthy for some already healthy people but it certainly isn't for Type 2 diabetics!

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Yes I ate to the EatWell guide and that is why I got type 2 diabetes even though I was always slim TOFI ( a Thin Outside Fat Inside) diabetic.
Because of being a TOFI I went Low Carb rather than Low Calorie, though I hear that the remission rates are similar (with Low Carb remission being a little higher and independent of how long a person has been diabetic).
Naturally I ditched it as soon as my BG monitor showed me what a 'healthy' breakfast of whole oat porridge and large banana did t my blood glucose!

EatWell may be healthy for some already healthy people but it certainly isn't for Type 2 diabetics!

Many of us start the day with porridge.

I guess it depends on your own definition of remission if it still spikes you badly.