Dining out

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CoventryTrev

CoventryTrev

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
Can I ask how you deal with dining out and insulin?
My partner and I used to go out for dinner often but in the last four months I've only done it once. This is mainly because I feel people are watching me when I'm atbthe table trying to work out how many carbs I'm going to eat and then injecting myself.
Do you go somewhere quiet and discreet to inject or think about what you're going to eat and inject yourself before leaving home?
 
CoventryTrev said:
Do you go somewhere quiet and discreet to inject or think about what you're going to eat and inject yourself before leaving home?
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No! I wait until I've got the food (it's hardly unknown for food to be delayed in a restaurant). And then I inject at the table. People really won't notice, on the whole, and if they do will care as little as I do.
 
I only ever inject when I've got the food in front of me. There's many a slip twixt kitchen and table. We do quite a few river cruises, where you share tables with complete strangers, and I can honestly say nobody has ever noticed me injecting at the table, right next to them, except for one woman who said excitedly, oh, are you diabetic, my granddaughter is! and we then had an interesting discussion.
 
Like everything with diabetes, you get better with practice and experience, so get out there and start practicing!! Don't worry about making mistakes or people seeing you, just get on and do it. You have every right to be there and do whatever you need to do to enjoy your evening. Injecting insulin is not optional.... it keeps you alive. Do you worry about putting reading glasses on to read the menu or other people doing that? This really isn't much different

I started out going to the loo to inject (so no, it is not just you being paranoid) but people here encouraged me to do it at the table and they are right that mostly people are busy giving their attention to the people they are out with or their food, not looking at what people are doing at other tables. Also, where I inject (my tummy) is usually below table level so it is quite easy to be discrete about it. Or occasionally I have injected in my thigh when wearing a dress which is even less obvious. Some people even inject through their clothing if it is relatively lightweight and they can be confident of ensuring the full dose goes into them, so you might want to experiment with that as an option if you feel particularly vulnerable.

Unlike others here, I now inject when I order my food and keep a close eye on my Libre. I almost always need a top up of insulin after a meal out (correction) so I work on the basis that if my meal doesn't arrive in time and my levels are dropping, I will have a few carbs.... perhaps a small piece of bread if it is on the table or a Jelly Baby to keep my levels from dropping too low until my meal arrives and then inject a bit more insulin later. I find that once my levels go high (above 10) I am much more insulin resistant and it takes me hours and several corrections to bring them down again, so I would rather pre bolus my insulin when I order and top up with a tiny few carbs if my levels start to drop whilst I am waiting for it. This has come from trial and improvement and what suits me, as I have very fast digestion and slow insulin absorption. If I don't pre-bolus my levels will be up in the mid-teens for the rest of the night and I will be battling to get them down. I would rather have a little bit of bread or a JB if I need it as both are pleasurable, unless it's a green JB (yuk!), than be jabbing multiple corrections later to bring stubborn high levels down and worrying about going to bed with stacked corrections on board. For me that takes the enjoyment out of the meal and makes me frustrated.
 
I should also say that this is one of the huge benefits of Libre, that I can just guestimate the carbs from the menu, inject it up front when I order, keep an eye on my levels and top up with a few carbs if necessary if meal is late. I know that if my levels come down to low 5s with a sloping or vertical downward arrow then I need to take some carbs to slow the drop and consider eating some of the carbs on my plate first when the meal arrives. If my plate arrives and my levels are 7s or 8s then I will eat the protein and fatty parts of the meal first and go steady on the carbs.
That is what works for me, but I couldn't really make those decisions without Libre and knowing how my body works. It may seem complicated to think of all this stuff whilst you are out having a good time but I just do it automatically now and I practice at home lots because I don't eat out very often.... and I can't be bothered to carb count.
In fact it is rare these days that I carb count. I just inject some insulin up front and then keep an eye on Libre and do a correction later and it has pretty much become instinctive. Not sure I could be bothered with weighing and measuring stuff and doing maths at every meal. I feel a bit guilty sometimes that I don't but can't really see the point when I have Libre and I can just nudge my levels one way or another with an insulin correction or a little few carbs to keep in range. My basal doses have to be right though.
 
Lots of answers to what is a perfectly reasonable and good question.

At first, I was nervous about the whole idea: how could I get the carb count right? Where should I inject and when? Would my meal be delayed? And so on.

Since my first outing post diagnosis, I've used disabled toilets to inject - but no longer bother. Although, because I don't get good reconciliation between my Libre and actual BG, I do sometimes find myself needing to wash my hands before finger pricking and establishing if I need a correction adding (or subtracting) to my bolus - so might use that time to also inject. But today I have no regard about whether a stranger might be watching me inject; nor whether it might offend someone.

When I can, if I know where I will be dining, I often look at the menu online and see if there are natural meal choices that I can estimate the carb count for. But this is far from foolproof; online menus change and sometimes preferred options are not available. Over the last 32 months I have become far more relaxed about estimating or just guessing what the carb count might be. Like @rebrascora I rely on Libre to alert me if I've over bolused or to find out if I've undershot and am going high. And like @rebrascora I'll shamelessly snack from my goodies bag if I need to because I'm at risk of going hypo. I will take a bolus correction later on if I've messed up and am going higher than I'd like.

Of course all of this has come from time since diagnosis, experience with that time and thus confidence in what I'm doing as well as confidence in knowing I can put right a poor decision while eating out. I do still pre-bolus; partly because I know if I eat while above 7 or at most 8 (actual) then my bolus calcs don't work too well - too much natural insulin resistance - and this comes back to bite me later on. So I'm happy to pre-bolus, risk drifting low, knowing I can manage that before I become hypo. Libre, even when it's not in harmony with me, is a huge bonus to my daily D management.

One thing I have always done, so far, is to tell the waiter or reception desk that I'm insulin dependent, that I will probably have simple questions about portion sizes for those menu choices that might be high carb content and that I have my own goodies bag if things go adrift. This has only once been a problem and I over-estimated the common sense of the manager/owner who went extraordinarily and unnecessarily defensive. But that was a notable exception. Generally I find restaurant and cafe staff are alert to food allergies and while they often don't know much about insulin dependency they are amenable to dialogue to assist me in making a menu choice. When a waiter or waitress is new, they can find a question about the weight of, eg, a portion of chips challenging; but I know most chefs know the answer - they need to, to stay in budget for their menu costings. So asking has never been a problem.

If my menu choice might have a thickener such as cornflour in the gravy/jus/sauce - or might not - then I'll ask if the chef knows and make a guess according to the response! I no longer am too obsessed with getting the carb count spot on; I can adjust with a bolus retrospectively if necessary.

The big thing for me is I now enjoy eating out, I no longer worry about the D aspects and just take things as they come along. But I was not like this a year ago! The only thing I've not yet done is try a "sampling menu" of many small courses that one sometimes finds at gourmet restaurants. So far that still makes me hesitant. I was intrigued to discover that, apparently, the restaurant chains run by Raymond Blanc didn't have the full nutrition content for all their menus, even though the menus are determined by the head office and designed and tested by teams of chefs before being put in front of the public at large. They know all the portion sizes and allergy foods within, but not the carb counts. I meant to email their head office and establish if this was really so, but forgot; then apathy overtook my query!

Go dining again and enjoy!
 
I aim to support small independent businesses who don't have the funds to calculate all the portion sizes and carb contents. But that is very much my problem. Not theirs.
Luke @rebrascora I guess and correct.
I inject at the table and found few people notice and no one cares. If they have a needle phobia they don't have to look (and probably can't see it).
Keeping myself Alice is more important than the sensitivity of a nosy stranger.
 
I am sure I must have been in a restaurant or cafe where someone needed to use their asthma inhaler, or it was time for them to take tablets for this that or the other. I really can’t say I have ever noticed. I am generally far more focussed on my table, the people I am with and the choices on the menu!

I wouldn’t ever go to a toilet to inject. The idea of that makes me feel quite queasy.

I’d also only ever inject a small ‘downpayment’ upfront while waiting - because as others have said, kitchen delays can happen, and can sometimes be lengthy! Usually I just wait until the food arrives so I can guesstimate, rather than assuming the portion size of whatever carbs are involved (which can vary hugely!).

I’d encourage you to go out more times. The more you go, the more experience you’ll build up. You’ll gain confidence, and learn from a mistake or two - but most of all… you’ll have nice meals to enjoy 🙂
 
Now restaurants who have more than a certain number of employees have to publish their nutritional info you can find online information of standard meals.

Wetherspoons have done this for years and it’s really helpful. As others have said if you want to support smaller businesses that won’t be an option.

But once you get more comfortable with carb counting you will be able to eyeball your plate quite well and work out the crabs

Don’t stop loving your life. It’s trail and error
 
Amity Island said:
Mike, thanks for the encouragement.....but none required (for me) lol.

Do you tend to stick to same places or brave trying new places? I stick to same places as I rarely find anything as good. It also makes bolusing more predictable.
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We are lucky to have a thriving eating-out scene where I am, so while there are places we return there’s also a steady stream of tempting new venues. I don’t think we’ve been to the same place twice over the past 12 months, even though we left every olace saying, ”That was great! We must come back here”
 
I usually inject where I eat and, as others have said, normally nobody notices. One exception was when one of my team was needle phobic and then I did take care not to inject when she was looking.

There was also an occasion when we were having lunch in a restaurant in St Malo. The lady at the next table noticed me inject and, when her husband returned from the loo, greeted him in a loud voice with "Hey Abner - this guy's just been shooting up at table!" It turned out that they were Americans from a cruise ship. He was also a Type 1 diabetic, and we had a long discussion about the merits of our different treatments. I remember that they were particularly impressed with the design of the plastic case for my Novopen, which has spaces for 3 spare needles and 1 phial of insulin. Sadly, Novo Nordisk have since changed the design - but I am still using my old cases.
 
Perry28 said:
they were particularly impressed with the design of the plastic case for my Novopen, which has spaces for 3 spare needles and 1 phial of insulin.
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I remember those! I probably still have one knocking around somewhere!
 
One of the benefits of knowing insulin was coming for a while was reading others experiences here of injecting when out and I made my mind up never to inject in the loos and do it at the table (all be it as discreetly as I could)

As for venues, I have tended to only go to places with carb contents listed online and local coffee shops that do panini or sandwich etc which is fairly okay to guestimate.
I'm sure over time and trial and error I will get better at it too 🙂

I am going to have a chat with the local Chinese restaurant / take away about carb content and ask them about being able to do more measured portions when I order. I'm a creature of habbit so don't need many choices worked out 😉
I want to take the kids there for a sit in meal too.
 
I haven't been out to eat since my diagnosis, two months ago-- not deliberately avoided, just hasn't happened-- so I hadn't started to think about the carb-counting problem yet.

Proud makes a very good point-- that the chefs or managers will know e.g. the weight of a portion of chips because the restaurant has to keep within its costings, so just ask the wait staff to ask; and it's reassuring to know Proud has never or rarely had a problem with that.

I have thought about where and when and how to inject, though:

Since a few days after diagnosis, I have been looking forward to the first time I eat out with a group of people. When the food arrives, I intend to say, very loudly, 'Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to shoot up.'

Well, it makes me laugh ...
 
I have the nutracheck app (paid subscription) and its pretty decent for on the go carb amounts and lists a lot of chains nutritional info as well as generic dishes.
Also its good for when cooking family dinners at home and working out carbs per portion.
 
CoventryTrev said:
Can I ask how you deal with dining out and insulin?
My partner and I used to go out for dinner often but in the last four months I've only done it once. This is mainly because I feel people are watching me when I'm atbthe table trying to work out how many carbs I'm going to eat and then injecting myself.
Do you go somewhere quiet and discreet to inject or think about what you're going to eat and inject yourself before leaving home?
Click to expand...
Don't worry about it, it all comes in time, the more you do it the less self-conscious you will become. How about going to your same favourite restaurant so you will see the food coming out, the portion sizes, and be able to do the calculations and/or your injections in advance. Then try other places and inject openly when you feel more confident. Small steps. Not everyone knows much about diabetes, it is normally limited to, oh that's when you have too much sugar, or you cannot eat sugar... it makes no difference to the waiter or chef, the food comes out as it has always done. I like trading my food with others, maybe they want an extra potato or fries, and I will swap it for their tomato or veg, they think I am mental! Sometimes I go out with salad dodgers, so half my plate is filled with their greens. Also, instead of a starter and a main, have 2 starters, they are much more interesting anyway. Hopefully in time you will realise that you can eat whatever you want and if you over do it, you can top up your insulin, bearing in mind that is only once/twice a week.
 
gll said:
I have the nutracheck app (paid subscription) and its pretty decent for on the go carb amounts and lists a lot of chains nutritional info as well as generic dishes.
Also its good for when cooking family dinners at home and working out carbs per portion.
Click to expand...
I use the free my fitness pal app and that’s pretty good too actually, I like it.
 
I “stab where I sit” don’t get me wrong the first few times I went out to eat I was terrified of guessing and injecting around other folk. I’m only a year in to T1D and I still get nervous in new places.
When I feel nervous about it I remind myself it’s do or die. Sometimes I make a point of standing to do it in view, not for anyone else’s reaction but for my own head (if that makes sense). My friends and family have a running joke of saying “take your drugs” ir “that the good drugs you’ve got there” bas loudly as they can and to be fair it does make me laugh.
Keep doing it eventually you’ll get to a point where you realise others don’t notice it either. If they do and ask questions just be open.
I usually inject about 5/10 mins after ordering depending on how busy a place is or when the plate is infront of me. I’ve learned to guess what the carbs will be in a restaurant and tend to take less than I think to leave room for a correction later if needed. Eg: my ratio is 1u:10g so if I think a meal is 80g of carbs I take 4u to start and correct later but this is just what works for me.
You’ll find your comfort zone and it’ll become second nature the more you do it. You’ve got this!
 
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