Diets

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WendyB61

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I am really annoyed with myself, I was diagnosed type 2 in January not put on any meds as the nurse wanted me to try diet first, had my Hab1c tested in June and I had got it down to within normal range, to celebrate I have completely blown all my good work, I just can’t stop eating, I’m thinking of trying a meal replacement diet to give me a kick start, does anyone know which replacement shakes/meals I can have with diabetes?
 
WendyB61 said:
I am really annoyed with myself, I was diagnosed type 2 in January not put on any meds as the nurse wanted me to try diet first, had my Hab1c tested in June and I had got it down to within normal range, to celebrate I have completely blown all my good work, I just can’t stop eating, I’m thinking of trying a meal replacement diet to give me a kick start, does anyone know which replacement shakes/meals I can have with diabetes?
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I used the basic Tesco ones, and reversed my diabetes using them on the Newcastle diet.
 
Sorry to hear you’ve been having a tough time @WendyB61

The Newcastle Diet is a very low calorie weight loss program which has been part of a large scale study funded by Diabetes UK.

There’s a book which describes it

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/‘life-without-diabetes’-by-professor-roy-taylor.84970/

And you can also read about the research here

Research spotlight – putting type 2 diabetes into remission

Researching a low-calorie weight management programme to put diabetes into remission Thanks to our research funding, scientists are busy investigating a new weight management treatment, which includes a low-calorie diet, to help people put their type 2 diabetes into remission.
www.diabetes.org.uk www.diabetes.org.uk
 
travellor said:
I used the basic Tesco ones, and reversed my diabetes using them on the Newcastle diet.
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How low does your BS need to be, and for how long, in order to say you have reversed your diabetes. I'd like to be able to get there eventually. Good on you for doing it. Thanks
 
Jean G said:
How low does your BS need to be, and for how long, in order to say you have reversed your diabetes. I'd like to be able to get there eventually. Good on you for doing it. Thanks
Click to expand...
Back into normal figures, and the ability to eat carbs without being medicated or diet controlled is the normal definition.
I lost weight initially on a low fat diet, then did the Newcastle shakes diet coupled with exercise.
My fasting BG went back into the normal range, as did my hba1c.
I tested with very high carb meals afterwards, and react normally to then, ie, no spikes.
That was seven years ago.
I just watch the weight now, exercise, and don't over eat like I used to.
 
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travellor said:
Back into normal figures, and the ability to eat carbs without being medicated or diet controlled is the normal definition.
I lost weight initially on a low fat diet, then did the Newcastle shakes diet coupled with exercise.
My fasting BG went back into the normal range, as did my hba1c.
I tested with very high carb meals afterwards, and react normally to then, ie, no spikes.
That was seven years ago.
I just watch the weight now, exercise, and don't over eat like I used to.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply, and once again good on you, I hope to get there one day.!!!
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
Sorry to hear you’ve been having a tough time @WendyB61

The Newcastle Diet is a very low calorie weight loss program which has been part of a large scale study funded by Diabetes UK.

There’s a book which describes it

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/‘life-without-diabetes’-by-professor-roy-taylor.84970/

And you can also read about the research here

Research spotlight – putting type 2 diabetes into remission

Researching a low-calorie weight management programme to put diabetes into remission Thanks to our research funding, scientists are busy investigating a new weight management treatment, which includes a low-calorie diet, to help people put their type 2 diabetes into remission.
www.diabetes.org.uk www.diabetes.org.uk
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Hi, do you know of a link to the actual DiRECT papers. I can't seem to penetrate all the hype surrounding the claims being made at the moment.
 
Burylancs said:
Thanks. I'll plough through this lot to start with.
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I think the original and follow-up papers were published in The Lancet, if that helps?
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I think the original and follow-up papers were published in The Lancet, if that helps?
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Thanks. I want to get into the nitty gritty of the research. I still can't understand why a trial with a 54% failure rate, rising to 64% after 2 years is being trumpeted as a rip-roaring success. I'm also concerned about the careful selection ( i hesitate to say cherry picking) of the T2s allowed into the his trial ( age 20-65, dxed under 6 years, BMI 27 to 45, not on insulin). He allocated 26 surgeries to his Crash Diet how did he only manage to find 149 subjects out of that lot ? By coincidence I have recently read David Spiegalhalter's book 'The Art of Statistics'' ( a book Dominic Cummings says everyone should read ) The author defines several errors in statistical methodology made by medical researchers. One of them was that researchers randomly allocate whole doctor's surgeries to one arm of a study or another but then analyse the results as though the individuals had been randomly allocated. It looks st first glance like that error is possibly exactly what Taylor did in DiRECT.
 
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Burylancs said:
. I still can't understand why a trial with a 54% failure rate, rising to 64% after 2 years is being trumpeted as a rip-roaring success
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I don’t think it was the failure rate which caught the attention at conferences. It was more the scale of successes within that population, and the fact that there was now a significant piece of work to show that T2D was not necessarily ‘inevitably progressive’ as had been the understanding for many years.

Follow-on research has been heralded as offering breakthrough understanding of the way T2 operates. How it comes about, and for some people how it can be undone.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I don’t think it was the failure rate which caught the attention at conferences. It was more the scale of successes within that population, and the fact that there was now a significant piece of work to show that T2D was not necessarily ‘inevitably progressive’ as had been the understanding for many years.

Follow-on research has been heralded as offering breakthrough understanding of the way T2 operates. How it comes about, and for some people how it can be undone.
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Yes it looks like DiRECT may be a Logical Fallacy called 'Survivorship Bias' - the minority that succeed at something are prioritised over the majority that fail to achieve it. What really needs explaining is why the 54% failed to achieve 'remission'. There is clearly more involved in T2 than just de-fatting the liver and pancreas.
DiRECT hasn't proved that T2 isn't necessarily progressive, it only took place in 2017, there's decades to go for the participants in it. You would have to be Mystic Meg to make this claim that was in the Lancet article, 'Our findings confirm that type2 diabetes of up to six years duration is not necessarily a permanent, lifelong condition.' Sorry Prof Taylor your findings don't 'confirm' anything of the sort. You will have to wait until all the participants in your intervention group are dead and their full diabetic story is known. In the meantime the participants will have to have all the annual checks like the rest of us and think about how every morsel of food might affect them.
 
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Burylancs said:
Yes it looks like DiRECT may be a Logical Fallacy called 'Survivorship Bias' - the minority that succeed at something are prioritised over the majority that fail to achieve it. What really needs explaining is why the 54% failed to achieve 'remission'. There is clearly more involved in T2 than just de-fatting the liver and pancreas.
DiRECT hasn't proved that T2 isn't necessarily progressive, it only took place in 2017, there's decades to go for the participants in it. You would have to be Mystic Meg to make this claim that was in the Lancet article, 'Our findings confirm that type2 diabetes of up to six years duration is not necessarily a permanent, lifelong condition.' Sorry Prof Taylor your findings don't 'confirm' anything of the sort. You will have to wait until all the participants in your intervention group are dead and their full diabetic story is known. In the meantime the participants will have to have all the annual checks like the rest of us and think about how every morsel of food might affect them.
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Guess it depends on your outlook on life.
Glass half empty, chipped, with a lipstick mark, or half full.
Me, I can take whatever bias or fallacy life gives me. No one promised a cure. No one gave me a guarantee.
It wasn't a snake oil remedy, it was exactly the chance you are quoting.
And, it took will power to go for the 50/50.
However.
I reversed diabetes.
I'm good with that.
If you need a cast iron guarantee, as you say, others will certainly sell you that.
 
Burylancs said:
What really needs explaining is why the 54% failed to achieve 'remission'.
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The main discriminant of non-responders was failure to lose weight. The other major discriminant was length of diabetes.

The reduction in remission rate at 24 months was tied closely to weight regain. And mechanistically, the re-build of liver and pancreas fat was generally confirmed by imaging.

Obviously you want to see large scale replication studies which hopefully happening, but FWIW I think the work is pretty solid.

The big thing is that it doesn't really address weight regain, which is often driven by much more powerful factors than the desire to remain in remission. For that, meds are going to be needed, like the new "Wegovy" dosage of semaglutide, but in the near future cheaper and with fewer side effects (hopefully).
 
travellor said:
Back into normal figures, and the ability to eat carbs without being medicated or diet controlled is the normal definition.
I lost weight initially on a low fat diet, then did the Newcastle shakes diet coupled with exercise.
My fasting BG went back into the normal range, as did my hba1c.
I tested with very high carb meals afterwards, and react normally to then, ie, no spikes.
That was seven years ago.
I just watch the weight now, exercise, and don't over eat like I used to.
Click to expand...
I’m almost afraid to do any of those diets as i find I hypo really easy when I don’t eat enough. It feels like a lose lose situation. What kind of exercise do you do when you’re taking in so little carbs and stuff?! I’d love to be able to exercise again but I’m unsure about what I would need to eat before and after?!
 
cr1979 said:
I’m almost afraid to do any of those diets as i find I hypo really easy when I don’t eat enough. It feels like a lose lose situation. What kind of exercise do you do when you’re taking in so little carbs and stuff?! I’d love to be able to exercise again but I’m unsure about what I would need to eat before and after?!
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Are you on insulin, or any other meds that stimulate insulin production?
 
cr1979 said:
I’m almost afraid to do any of those diets as i find I hypo really easy when I don’t eat enough. It feels like a lose lose situation. What kind of exercise do you do when you’re taking in so little carbs and stuff?! I’d love to be able to exercise again but I’m unsure about what I would need to eat before and after?!
Click to expand...
If you are taking some medication to lower blood glucose then you need to consider that eating low carb can be really effective, so you are doubling up on the desired effect - which isn't good.
I just eat low carb, two meals a day and I can do anything. My latest escapade was cutting back the huge hedge overhanging the back fence of the garden.
Starting the day with roast chicken and salad stuff, or steak and mushrooms with other stirfry, or scrambled eggs with cheese and a tomato all provide enough nourishment to do just about anything I might get up to.
 
Diet control may be a consideration, but as @Drummer has said, it's a diet you need to stay on, and seems to promote a low appetite as well. But that is side trekking this thread as the question was about using shakes to lose weight.
I personally preferred the attempt using shakes, to completely reverse my diabetes, I really enjoy food, and eat anything again now.
 
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