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Diagnosed with type 3C diabetes on Oct 8th.

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conanthewarrior

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
Hi everyone, I went to a detox unit on the 7th of November and part of this was a health check where they pricked my finger. My blood sugar was 26 Mmol and my ketones 4.1.
Due to this they did another check the next day with a similar result so I was taken to a nearby hospital with suspected DKA.

I didn't have DKA luckily but I spent a week in hospital on an IV insulin pump/sliding scale until my sugar was down to under 10 and my ketones under 0.6.

I was then put on Lantus 14 units and Novorapid 3 times a day 6 units before eating.

I caused my diabetes through having pancreatitis 7 times drinking excess amounts of alcohol, around 38 units a day. My pancreas can no longer produce insulin where it is damaged.

Does anyone else here have type 3C diabetes? I had a diabetes health check at my GP and I was the first person with type 3C either of the nurses in the room had met.

I am getting used to doing my insulin now, and also have a freestyle Libre 2 plus prescribed for me so I can monitor my blood glucose on my phone instead of pricking my finger. It is an amazing device I must say.

It would be nice to get talking to others on the forum, so I hope to hear from some of you soon on here.

All the best, Conan.
 
Hi and welcome from me too.

Sorry to hear that you have such a dramatic introduction to diabetes but good to hear that you have a formal diagnosis of Type 3c from the start as many have to battle a Type 2 diagnosis because Type 3c is not yet well recognised. Thankfully it sounds like you have been started on the correct treatment and have been supplied with tech to support you so that is great news. Will you be getting a referral to a specialist diabetes clinic at the hospital for your continued support. The nurses at GP practice are often trained to manage the Type 2 patients within the practice but as a Type 3 you will likely have more complex needs and therefore should come under a consultant's care. The fact that the nurses were not familiar with Type 3c is enough to make it clear that they don't have the expertise to support you, I would say.

How are you doing with regard to detox? Managing diabetes with insulin is challenging and alcohol adds another level of complexity and danger, so doing your best to stay off the drink will keep you safer and obviously healthier. I speak as someone who was pretty much a sugar addict pre-diagnosis and certainly a chocoholic and whilst that might seem trivial in comparison to your situation, sugar and sweet stuff is much more readily available than alcohol, plus I still need sugar occasionally to deal with hypos, so whilst I am an all or nothing sort of person, I have had to be very disciplined about it. What I am saying is that I can sympathise with the challenges you face and wish you lots of luck with it. The forum here is an amazing resource for everyday support and learning and the depth of knowledge and practical experience is second to none, so I am really pleased you have found your way here and hope we will get to know you better and help you with the challenges as well as celebrate your successes. Just to end on a positive note, my diabetes has actually lead to me being healthier and fitter than I have been for years because I now have to think about every item of food or drink I put in my mouth and as a result I make healthier choices and I exercise more regularly. I hope this can be a turning point for your life too.
 
Hi and welcome @conanthewarrior from another 3c due to pancreatitis.
In my case it was caused by one very severe attack of acute pancreatitis so I was diagnosed early on in my stay in hospital.
Sorry that the diabetes diagnosis gives you another thing to deal with at a difficult time. I didn't really notice this, as I was too ill at the time, but many people find that once they have insulin to help reduce their blood sugar they realise how much better they start to feel. Hopefully that will be the case for you.
There aren't that many Type 3cs (or at least not many correctly diagnosed) and systems often don't have an option to record 3c. I'm recorded as Type 1 in a number of places.
I hope you're being well supported with the diabetes as there is a lot to get your head round at the start. Do let us know if you have any questions we can help with.
Just be aware that the pancreatic damage which causes diabetes can also cause problems with producing enough digestive enzymes to digest food (especially fats) properly. Most of us with 3c take digestive enzymes with meals to help with this so this may end up being the case for you.
 
I've just realised that you are being treated at your GP surgery. Totally agree with @rebrascora that you need to be under consultant care for the diabetes.
 
Welcome from me also @conanthewarrior. I got here using the short route, a total pancreatectomy to resolve my Pancreatic cancer.

You have correctly identified that very few Health Care Professionals (HCPs) know much about the vagaries of T3c and some don't seem to even have heard of it, with others flatly stating it doesn't exist. So we are a very small part of the overall community with Diabetes and slightly perversely our diabetic origins can be very varied, with some of us being wholly insulin dependent (as if T1), some needing a certain amount of insulin to help and some treated solely by oral meds (as happens for many T2s).

Our common denominator as T3cs is that as well as being diabetic almost all of us either actively having to manage a different ailment that brought about our pancreatic damage originally, or certainly have a sharp eye out for a return of that ailment.

While there are relatively few of us in proportion to T1s or T2s there are over 20 forum members who pop up from time to time. Do feel free to ask questions, any questions. We've all been new to this at some moment in time and there is a wealth of knowledge about the management of D amongst us. You are in many ways as if T1, with Lantus and Novorapid and needing Multiple Daily Injections (MDI). In his book "Think Like a Pancreas" the author, Gary Scheiner, tell us that Diabetes is Complicated, Confusing and Contradictory. This is so true. But regardless of Gary Scheiner's 3 Cs, we do manage what, at first, feels horribly scary. We learn by Trial and Experiment, cautiously exploring different techniques, many of those techniques shared with us by Forum members.

Be aware that although T1 and T2 have a common matter of our raised Blood Glucose (BG) that brings about our diagnosis of Diabetes, the treatment paths for T1s (including you and me) using insulin within MDI is very different to the treatment path for T2s. So suggestions made by T2s for other T2s can at times be very different to possible advice for T1s.

Anyway good luck. Ask away, people here are really helpful.
 
Another 3c here. Suffering from acute pancreatitis caused by years of rich food and wines. Pancreas still working but at much reduced levels. Taking Gliclazide and Metformin. No longer drink or eat rich food, including all the nice things - cakes, trifles, chocolate desserts etc etc. Thankfully no insulin.

I also need Creon as the P no longer makes any digesting enzymes.
 
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Welcome from me also @conanthewarrior. I got here using the short route, a total pancreatectomy to resolve my Pancreatic cancer.

What do you do regarding eating a wide range of foods if you have no Pancreas ? Where do your digestive enzymes come from ? Do you have to take Creon ? Insulin is no help re these (I'm pretty sure).
 
What do you do regarding eating a wide range of foods if you have no Pancreas ? Where do your digestive enzymes come from ? Do you have to take Creon ? Insulin is no help re these (I'm pretty sure).
Hello @victorharnesse,
I eat amost everything I previously ate. The one thing that I've struggled with is a freshly grilled beef steak. After 4 attempts and lousy indigestion a few hours later each time I've given up on that. A gammon steak is fine, as is a pork chop. Beef steak slow cooked is no problem.

My digestive enzymes do come from Creon and my Gastroenterologist recorded that I take it in industrial quantities. One tub of 100 x 25k capsules lasts about 3 days. For the most part Creon is a success. Sometimes I have dreadful bowel urgency and it's taken over 11 months for a GP referral to be converted into a Gastro appointment. I think that's probably because of the poor Hospital triage system, arbitrarily deciding my need is not important; not helped by the referral forms precluding a GP from providing all the facts, nor even hinting at the GPs conclusions.

Noticeably if very low or hypo I do NOT take any Creon, but I do make a deliberate effort to suck whatever hypo response I'm eating since one's saliva does some digesting and that results in a quicker introduction of glucose into your blood.

With no pancreas at all, I'm not only missing insulin, but the glucagon hormone that is used by our brain to tell our liver to open the glucose store and release glycogen. Interestingly our brains can't communicate with the liver directly.

The other important hormone I don't have is somostatin, which acts as a regulator between insulin and glucagon. Behind the scenes this keeps someone without diabetes with a pretty level BG, particularly when other hormones such as adrenaline or cortisol cause the liver to release extra glucose.

Your question about Creon is very pertinent. I meant to ask @conanthewarrior if they needed Creon.
 
Your question about Creon is very pertinent. I meant to ask @conanthewarrior if they needed Creon.
Thanks for that. I thought you would be taking Creon. I'd forgotten about the Glucagon etc. I'm still learning the fine details about this condition. What do you do about these other hormones - Glucagon, Somostatin, etc ?

Your comments re Adrenaline re pertinent as I'm expecting an operation shortly that will use it, so I'd better get ready for a rise in Glucose on the day.
 
Morning Conan and welcome to the forum even if we all wish we would rather not have the reason for being here.
My journey is very similar to Soup Dragons and Victors following a bad Acute Pancreatitis attack after gallstones which caused necrosis.
The responses so far contain great info and advice and Althoigh we 3cs have an individual perspective the similarities are that due to complete or reduced pancreatic function we normally require Creon and insulin/ non insulin medication.
Having 7 episodes of Pancreatitis must have been horrendous and I totally comprehend how difficult it is for you to reduce/eliminate the alcohol but as others have said I would listen very closely to the medical advice.
I was told after my one bout that although my AP was not alcohol related to not drink again as it could trigger another attack and it was such a traumatic experience for me that I have not touched it in last 3 years.
I know others may have the odd drink but I really want to do anything to prevent another attack as I can and although damaged my pancreas is still likely to be producing some insulin.
I appreciate the diagnosis can be overwhelming and with the insulin and over time you will get much better control of your Blood glucose and please feel free to request any advice that we may be able to help you with.
In the meantime hopefully the knowledge that you are nit alone may offer some comfort and I can promise you in time it will get better.
VBW
 
@victorhamesse, I can't do anything about my missing glucagon or somostatin, except:
1. Be aware this is my reality.​
2. "Think Like a Pancreas".​
A Consultant, in answering why I could "enjoy" Foot on the Floor (FotF) or the Dawn Phenomenum (DP) since I don't make Glucagon, replied they weren't sure; but our brains are clever and our bodies learn what I call workarounds, so probably the brain triggers adrenaline or cortisol glands to create the release of glucose by the liver. There is still so much about our intrinsic complexity that nobody fully understands.

Regarding your forthcoming op, will this be under a General Anaesthetic (GA) or a more limited procedure? I had a very challenging experience immediately after a significant GA op.

Somewhat against my wishes, but with heavy encouragement by the Surgical Team I was put on a sliding scale with insulin or glucose being provided through a canula. The dosage was done manually and in accordance with a formula provided by the Endocrinology Department, who never spoke to me during 24 days in Hospital. I was oblivious to the existence of this formula, which had been added to my notes at some point shortly before my surgery. During the surgery I was wearing my CGM, then Libre, and the phone app was updated after the surgery when back on the Ward. The anaesthetist was specifically monitoring my breathing and my BG; all went well and my graph from that period was very steady. Shortly after my return to the ward I was drifting between awake and asleep when my Libre alarm told me I was low. I checked, verified that low and before taking a glucose response I (stupidly in hindsight) obeyed the ward instructions and I informed the Nurses before any injecting or eating. The nurse that came along looked at my medical notes and ordered me not to eat, since the sliding scale notes specifically said when in that very low range my insulin must be INCREASED. I was awake enough to say no, absolutely not; but she had the written protocol in front of her and had insufficient sense to understand the protocol was fundamentally flawed. She was about to change the dosage and I made a loud scene - demanding I was immediately taken off the sliding scale. I had some jelly babies and fell asleep. Layer , once awake a young Doctor came over and gently tried to reprimand me, but I wasn't in a mood to take that reprimand. This Dr was adamant that the protocol would be correct, because it came from the Endocrinology Depot. I poliely challenged her to look at the protocol and explain to me what bit of being low and taking more insulin could be right. She read the protocol, went silent and showed me the typed protocol amended by hand writing to correct the huge error. That amendment had been done while I was asleep in the previous couple of hours. Young Doctor disappeared with no further comment, but clearly embarrassed by what had occurred.

So the lesson I learnt was:
1. A general ward nurse doesn't have any sense of when a treatment involving insulin could be wrong. They also don't understand that we self medicate with insulin at home as a matter of routine and they can think each injection must be authorised by a Dr.​
2. Ward Nurses are, of course, obliged to follow a written protocol.​
3. I will never again willingly surrender my control of my BG management.​
4. Should such a scenario recur, ie a GA for an unknown period, I will always insist on seeing the written instructions and check for myself what those instructions say.​
5. Should such an Endocrinology error be repeated I will photograph what is written and will relentlessly pursue the Head of department and the Hospital Board to get such professional incompetence faced up to. I wish I'd taken that photo back in July '22.​
Please don't let my experience wholly frighten you - your process may be absolutely fine. But do at least check that whatever is proposed for your D care makes sense. I know that following the Letby baby murders court case, Hospitals are in places overreacting and preventing patients from having their insulin close to hand. Once locked up the Patient has to go through a rarel available medications Nurse (who may refer to a wholly unavailable ward doctor) before unlocking one's own insulin. I had that potential difficulty last month during 14 hours in A & E. Fortunately a senior Staff Nurse used common sense and left my insulin with me.

Because I'd had 2 prior admissions to Hospital during '22, I was quite relaxed about my imminent op, had my BG in a good place and didn't get much BG interference during the run up to the op. One thing about time in Hospital is that you get lots of time to manage your BG from a bed or bedside armchair with little to distract you.

I also found the food menu was initially ridiculous and very difficult to carb count from. But I already knew that EVERY Hospital has a Nutrition content for every single item of food, including each meal type, updated monthly in accordance with the overarching Contract for Catering. With persistence I have, since discovering this, always persuaded, cajoled or slightly threatened a Ward Manager to find that Nutrition detail. Each time I was told, after finding the massive spreadsheet, the Ward had no idea this detail existed. In the Churchill Hospital the Nutritionist for the HPB Depot didn't know about the spreadsheet and promptly emailed her 5 colleague dieticians with the link to that detail. You can't really make these things up - Nutritionists advising Specialists on Nutition, unaware about the existence of Contract provided detailed Nutritional information. I am not naive enough to believe the spreadsheets are 100% correct; but they provide a decent guide for starting carb counting for a Hospital meal. They can also guide you before choosing your dinner at 7am about what the menu for your lunch and dinner meal actually is!. Also most wards have immediate access to Dextrose equivalent hypo response food.
 
Thanks for your extensive comment. What a poor experience for you. Well done for persevering.

Fortunately 1. I'm not on Insulin, but I have noted the experience of you and others on this forum wrt hospital stays and I'm forewarned, thanks. 2. No, it's a local procedure under local sedation, so hurrah. Since 1990 I've only had day procedures and even in 1990 it was only an overnight stay. Before then, I can't remember when/if I had to spend any time there. I generally avoid hospitals.
 
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Hello and welcome from me as well. I also had a total pancreatectomy to (hopefully) resolve my Pancreatic cancer so slightly different case from yours especially if you're not on insulin but as mentioned there's only a few 3c's here so thought I'd say 'hi'.
 
I also found the food menu was initially ridiculous and very difficult to carb count from. But I already knew that EVERY Hospital has a Nutrition content for every single item of food, including each meal type, updated monthly in accordance with the overarching Contract for Catering. With persistence I have, since discovering this, always persuaded, cajoled or slightly threatened a Ward Manager to find that Nutrition detail. Each time I was told, after finding the massive spreadsheet, the Ward had no idea this detail existed. In the Churchill Hospital the Nutritionist for the HPB Depot didn't know about the spreadsheet and promptly emailed her 5 colleague dieticians with the link to that detail. You can't really make these things up - Nutritionists advising Specialists on Nutition, unaware about the existence of Contract provided detailed Nutritional information. I am not naive enough to believe the spreadsheets are 100% correct; but they provide a decent guide for starting carb counting for a Hospital meal. They can also guide you before choosing your dinner at 7am about what the menu for your lunch and dinner meal actually is!. Also most wards have immediate access to Dextrose equivalent hypo response food.

Just a further thought. Were you able to self medicate with your Creon while you were in the ward ?
 
Yes, in 2022 self-medicating with my own Creon was not an issue.
 
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