Diabetic for 39 years gone from two to 4 a day recently-HATE IT!

[Metal mama]

Hello all,
I've been put onto four jabs a day, only started last week.
Have had diabetes 39 years and had regime changed as blood was not great (under considerable stress-blood was fine before.)
I'd changed three years ago and went onto beef insulin as had a hypo where I lost consciousness no warning. In the three years on beef I have again lost consciousness twice but it has been so bad paramedics were called out again with no warning.
So now on pens I dread it so much;hate the heavy pen, hate the needles and changing them, hate the click noise every time I administer a unit, hate the whole regime to be honest. Blood sugar has been atrocious since I switched ranging from 1 to 27; it's never been so bad.
I hate this regime so much it's giving me sleepless nights and stress about where and when I'll inject next. The insulin has given me a personality change: I'm either shouting at everyone or wanting to cry. I don't want to be on this nasty regime anymore and would much rather be back on two a day. Sugars were way better for a start.
Anyone have this problem?
Cheers!

 

[Metal mama]

And I don't want to go onto a pump.

So please don't suggest that. Thanks.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

So please don't suggest that. Thanks.

I did answer you on another forum, but here goes.
It's your body, you tell the consultant or who ever it was who changed you over that you hate the routine and you want your beef insulin back. It's your body not their's.

Why did they change you over anyway, if you had resonable numbers and were happy?
You can also gain even better control by injecting 3 times a day using beef insulin.
Just use a syringe to put both neutral and I sophane in. This way you can alter your neutral to the amount of carbs eaten. This can be done twice a day and neutral on it's own at lunchtime.
If Isophane is to much in 2 doses then just have it once a day.

Curious as to why you don't want a pump? 🙂
I have one and use bovine insulin in it with no problem.

 

[Northerner]

I've only ever been on pens so they don't bother me, but I can see how having to change the way you do things after nearly 40 years might be a problem. What insulin are you on now? Is it the pens you hate most? If so, I would have though it would be perfectly possible to continue using syringes if that's what you prefer 🙂 Are you having a problem getting used to injecting two insulins, and injecting before every meal? Have you been given instruction in carb counting?

 

[Metal mama]

Thanks both

Thanks both for your replies.
I got changed Sue as I have had two paramedic hypos and my blood has gone up the swanny (reason as per other forum post).
I'm now on Insumane rapid and basal.
I've been put on a carb course in two months.
I don't want to go onto a pump as don't want to be wearing it all day.
Each time I see a health pro I get told my regime is old fashioned and I need to move onto four a day. I took four a day when was expecting my first child and couldn't wait to get off it.
I'm at a bit of a loss as have no hypo warning (can happily hold a conversation on a reading of less than 1).
I also don't like the fact that my friends with diabetes keep going on about how I should change onto an analogue when I have my reasons that I simply don't want to.
Keep getting lectured by them and I want to say, "Not everyone is the same". My friend who recently changed keeps saying about how great it is that they can now eat whatever they want on this new insulin. It's no big deal to me-I don't want to eat things like cake bars and toffee pudding!
I am tired of sarcasm from the health professionals who think they know best and friends who think they know better.
My friend who doesn't have diabetes had the cheek to say, my change onto pens was "long overdue". And she'd know would she? Um, no.

 

[Metal mama]

Forgot to say...

I just don't like all this extra injecting business. Can switch to syringes but to be honest going from two to four and dr said five if it doesn't work, is not a regime I am happy with.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Thanks both for your replies.
I got changed Sue as I have had two paramedic hypos and my blood has gone up the swanny (reason as per other forum post).
I'm now on Insumane rapid and basal.
I've been put on a carb course in two months.
I don't want to go onto a pump as don't want to be wearing it all day.
Each time I see a health pro I get told my regime is old fashioned and I need to move onto four a day. I took four a day when was expecting my first child and couldn't wait to get off it.
I'm at a bit of a loss as have no hypo warning (can happily hold a conversation on a reading of less than 1).
I also don't like the fact that my friends with diabetes keep going on about how I should change onto an analogue when I have my reasons that I simply don't want to.
Keep getting lectured by them and I want to say, "Not everyone is the same". My friend who recently changed keeps saying about how great it is that they can now eat whatever they want on this new insulin. It's no big deal to me-I don't want to eat things like cake bars and toffee pudding!
I am tired of sarcasm from the health professionals who think they know best and friends who think they know better.
My friend who doesn't have diabetes had the cheek to say, my change onto pens was "long overdue". And she'd know would she? Um, no.

Ok Let's start from the begining.
Yes 2 jabs a day is very restrictive and if it's gone tights up then you need to adapt.
Which can be done using bovine insulin and syringes as a delivery.
I successfully carb counted and adjusted my insulin this way. As you can as well.
Ask your GP to prescribe you Isophane and neutral in seperate vials and start again that way. If needs must take the insulin you hate and dump it on his desk and very politely suggest what he can do with it 🙂
Look up bdec on the net. This is a carb counting course. Buy a couple of books, using insulin and think like a pancreas.
Did you not have carb counting or exchanges when first diagnosed?
You can eat what ever you want using bovine as well. Just carb count it and take the right amount of insulin. The only dif in the analogues and animal insulin is the time of administration and it's duration. ie 30 mins before you eat and it lasts at least 5 hours if not 6 - 8 hours for some.

As you are swinging from 0 - 27 like you are then I would suspect you have an allergic reaction to the insulin you are on. Esp with the character change as well.

I saw a DSN about 7 years ago who held some pens up to me and enthused as to how great this new! invention was 🙄 I gently pointed out to the s.o.c. that her new invention had been around for at least 20 years and as they were at least 4 times the size of my syringe she could keep em. I also pointed out I could not see any improvement going from 3 injections to 5 a day either ty very much.
Had to explain to her that it was quite simple mixing the 2 insulin's in the same syringe thus not so many injections.
As you can guess I was most popular
Have you seen the IDDT site? http://www.iddt.org/ please do remind your GP that it's your choice and your body. NICE guidelines state your rights.
Now if you want to go back to 2 injections a day then again have the 2 insulin's in seperate vials and work it from there, you would I suspect have to go very low carb at lunch time to work it but it can be done.

 

[Metal mama]

Sue-you're a genius! I'm going to try what you say! I'm so grateful for your advice.
The IDDT are brilliant and Jenny is such a source of gone information. I spoke to her about the analogue and she said was very supportive for my reasons not to go on it.
I still have my Bovine vials as didn't rush into changing my prescription so will try the method you have suggested. What really bugs me is the fact everyone gets tarred with the same brush by health profs and friends with diabetes. I just worry as have zero warning on either of these insulins.
I mentioned the reading of 1 to the DSN who said, "You are testing at 1am?" I said no love, my blood is reading 1 on the meter. She went all quiet. They just gave me 4 doses and I've been struggling to adjust them with zero guidance.
I'm worried I'll hypo on both what I'm on and on the bovine as have no warning. I've never been right since my second child was born, four years ago. Things have got progressively more bizarre and difficult with the control.
Which meter do you use? I've been given three new ones from the clinic in the last month.
Really appreciate your advice. Thanks so so much.

 

[Metal mama]

Forgot to say yes have signed up for bdec course. Clinic made out you couldn't do the course they run on two jabs a day. Have also got the carb and cals book. Really feel like I'm on my own as want to stand my ground and have everyone else saying otherwise. Argh wish I could take you to the appointment with me!

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Hiya,
you will have difficulty doing the course on two injections yes lol as it's dose adjustment for normal eating.
But you can still carb count using 2 injections a day. Know your carbs and stick to the same amount for each meal. This will help you achieve what you need to do.
Have you tried pork insulin? If not you might get a different response to that.
I'm highly allergic to pork insulin hence why I use bovine.
I use the one touch ultra but do have a pump.
Many hate the idea of having a pump attached to them 24/7 but once on the pump that's soon forgotten as you just do not notice the pump. Quality of life is very much improved as well.

 

[Metal mama]

I tried pork a few years ago and I was permanently hypo so asked to go onto beef.
The lack of warning is a real worry to me as I just go into hypo mode without any knowledge its going to happen.
Am trying the syringe bovine method from tomorrow.
Did you do two short and one long at night? Or did you mix the Isoph in the morning as well?
Have just mailed Jenny for low carb info as know Bev is on low carbs.
I didn't want the pump for the reasons you mentioned.
Thanks you've been so helpful.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

I tried pork a few years ago and I was permanently hypo so asked to go onto beef.
The lack of warning is a real worry to me as I just go into hypo mode without any knowledge its going to happen.
Am trying the syringe bovine method from tomorrow.
Did you do two short and one long at night? Or did you mix the Isoph in the morning as well?
Have just mailed Jenny for low carb info as know Bev is on low carbs.
I didn't want the pump for the reasons you mentioned.
Thanks you've been so helpful.

If your permently hypo then you were on far to much insulin.
When I first started on Isophane, I had it morning and night. But as I got older I cut it down to once a day in the morning. with neutral 3 x a day.
You do need to do a lot of blood tests though to see exactly what your bloods are doing.
Has it been explained that you have to feed the insulin?
So you need breakfast mid morning snack lunch pos mid afternoon, evening meal and some supper before bed.
You also do need to understand carbs and how many you are eating in comparison to you insulin.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Really hope you begin to see some more stability in your numbers metal mama.

Hope that the suggestions about carb counting and insulin feeding can reduce your range and begin to get your hypo warnings back.

I know you have said not to suggest a pump, but I have good reason to encourage you not to close your mind to it. I spent many years very firmly 'pump averse'. So many people kept sharing their stories about how it had transformed their experience, and how the fear of attachment had come to nothing, but I was unconvinced for many reasons.

I'd been on 2x a day (found the required discipline for meal and snack times and sizes too restrictive), had much more success on 4x a day, though not immediately. I spent probably 15 years pottering along my own way, happily enough and with not disastrous results, but it's only been in the last few years that I have really put work in to fine tuning. After another good 2 years of still being pump averse I decided that the only way to know for sure was to give a pump a go.

It's still not perfect, and diabetes is still very annoying at times, but I have to say that a pump has given me more precision, flexibility and ease of dosing. My range of results has improved and my hypo awareness is way better.

Oh... And the attachment thing? Nothing like as big a deal as expected. After 3-6 months or so it rarely ever registers. And when it does, it's more often that I'm *glad* to be attached (no more forgetting to take d stuff with me!)

If you are intrigued, take a look at our blog under the tag 'pump averse' to see the story unfold.

 

[Metal mama]

Really hope you begin to see some more stability in your numbers metal mama.

Hope that the suggestions about carb counting and insulin feeding can reduce your range and begin to get your hypo warnings back.

I know you have said not to suggest a pump, but I have good reason to encourage you not to close your mind to it. I spent many years very firmly 'pump averse'. So many people kept sharing their stories about how it had transformed their experience, and how the fear of attachment had come to nothing, but I was unconvinced for many reasons.

I'd been on 2x a day (found the required discipline for meal and snack times and sizes too restrictive), had much more success on 4x a day, though not immediately. I spent probably 15 years pottering along my own way, happily enough and with not disastrous results, but it's only been in the last few years that I have really put work in to fine tuning. After another good 2 years of still being pump averse I decided that the only way to know for sure was to give a pump a go.

It's still not perfect, and diabetes is still very annoying at times, but I have to say that a pump has given me more precision, flexibility and ease of dosing. My range of results has improved and my hypo awareness is way better.

Oh... And the attachment thing? Nothing like as big a deal as expected. After 3-6 months or so it rarely ever registers. And when it does, it's more often that I'm *glad* to be attached (no more forgetting to take d stuff with me!)

If you are intrigued, take a look at our blog under the tag 'pump averse' to see the story unfold.

Thank you so much both.
No nobody has told me I've got to feed the insulin.
This is what annoys me- I was just given some random doses and left to it. Have been fiddling about but waking average is between 11 and 22 and always hypo at 4pm. Today I woke on 20 and had one weetabix and was 14 at lunch! Had soup for lunch with bread took six units and came down to 10 and then at 4pm was 2.
The pump scares me as I have a preschool child and worry i'll get my pump rammed into me when I pick them up. Its been bad enough when they've sat next to me and kicked me in my injected legs lol!

 

[Twitchy]

Hiya 🙂 I was diagnosed as a baby in '78 & on 2 mixed jabs til my late teens, by which time I was utterly sick of fixed times & amounts of food (drove me Mad, Aaaaargh!!!!). Despite disliking the idea of more jabs I went onto a kind of mdi then (with no real training, carb counting etc, guess they just figured I'd survived that long so must have some clue lol!). I muddled along like that for a bit, learnt carb counting & did dafne which was like having the flipping lightx put on at last. I managed on mdi through my two pregnancies but this was where cracks were showing now - i'd developed dawn phenomenon & was regularly going to bed at 7mmol & waking at 20+, grim. I'd hated the idea of a pump - my doc had mentioned it years before & I'd said no for all thd usual reasons until the struggle of achieving the levels needed in pregnancy madd me rethink (& then I wasnt allowed one, but that's another story!). In the end I was allowed to try a pump, I figured I could always give it back if i hated it! I won't bore you with how life changing it's been (although it has 😉) but I can vouch that as long as you're careful with where you store your pump it's rarely if ever a problem...in fact my thighs, battered by years of isophane (which i didn't get on with) are still something I am far more wary of around the kids than the infusion sets (which are after all a smaller target, hehe).

From what you've said it's sounding like there's a possibility that with all the hormone changes (& lifestyle changes) kids bring, the old routine just isn't helping much any more...i know you're not pro pump but I do wonder if the flexibility & ability to personalise doses might help? Honestly, I can reassure you that the only times my line has snagged have been my fault & it's really not been an issue with the kids - if anything i've been better able to deal with them because my levels have been way more stable generally. Obviously just my experience, but I thought i'd mention it given your worried re kids (mine are 2 & 5 btw).

Whatever you do, all the best!

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Thank you so much both.
No nobody has told me I've got to feed the insulin.
This is what annoys me- I was just given some random doses and left to it. Have been fiddling about but waking average is between 11 and 22 and always hypo at 4pm. Today I woke on 20 and had one weetabix and was 14 at lunch! Had soup for lunch with bread took six units and came down to 10 and then at 4pm was 2.
The pump scares me as I have a preschool child and worry i'll get my pump rammed into me when I pick them up. Its been bad enough when they've sat next to me and kicked me in my injected legs lol!

Hiya,
have you been taught the art of basal testing? If not have a look here http://www.diatribe.us/issues/13/learning-curve the same principle applies to MDI. Sort your basal 1st.
Isophane has some lovely peaks hence why you might need the snacks. Some don't just be aware of it though.
If you know you are going to be hypo at 4 pm then ........ have a snack at 3 pm. This avoids the hypo 🙂
Obviously you are not having enough basal insulin at the moment. So work on that first. Then start on your bolus. It could take anything up to six weeks to sort things so don't panic. Change one thing at a time. To many changes and you wont have a clue what did and didn't work 😱

As to a pump it will take a lot more than a child to break it lol.
I once had a horse double barrell me and it was a bullseye on the pump 😡😱 No damage done.
The cannula goes just under your skin and in all honesty you just don't notice it, even with children and animals about.
I think you have a fear of the unknown which we all have before starting to pump.
You do have to have an understanding of carb counting and how insulin works though if you have a pump.

Do invest in a couple of books called think like a pancreas and using insulin. They will give you a greater understanding of how to use your insulin.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Metal Mama, I'm horrified at how you have been left. Forgive me if I have this wrong, but from what you have said it feels like your old systems have been failing for some time, your hypo symptoms have suffered, and you have not been properly supported, but rather, feel that change has been forced on you. It feels like you need to make a fresh start, with proper modern thinking (using insulin/think like a pancreas/Ragnar Hanas) to begin to get your D to behave and give you freedom of choice in food, timings and activity.

Regular hypos as low as you have been having do not have to be a part of your life. Uncertainty over levels can be much reduced. Freedom to eat a wide and varied diet which should be possible for all of us.

Hope you can hang around here and share your journey with us, we'll try to support you all the way.