Dealing with Hypos....I need a better plan

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berryr99

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I need a better plan than just eating everything I can when I am having a hypo - always get a good warning of the hypo.

Usually I go for jelly babies and then onto some high carb foods (Bananas/bread/cake etc). The problem with this is that it screws up my control for nearly 24 hours afterwards.

I tend to panic when Libre/Finger pricks show nothing is happening.

How does everyone else manage this ?

Thanks

Robert
 
In the early days your body does really crave when your levels drop and it is hard to be disciplined, plus your mind goes a bit numb, so I could never remember how many JBs I had eaten. Now I have them in 2 JB portions, so I know exactly how many I have had. I know 2 JBs is just 10g carbs rather than the 15g carbs recommended which would be 3JBs but 1 or 2 is usually enough for me. I don't have anything else until 15 mins later when I check with a finger prick. Do not rely on Libre as it will inevitably show that your levels have dropped lower which can cause more panic, so ignore your Libre and just focus on your BG meter. If my levels have come up above 4 then I am happy and job done for me but many people need 10g of slower acting carbs then to stabilize things, so a single digestive biscuit. If your levels haven't come up above 4 after 15 mins, then have another 15g of fast acting carbs and finger prick again in another 15 mins.

Once you get into a routine of treating them your body stops panicking and craving and you should find they are easier to manage.
 
I should also say that crewing your JBs well will have a quicker impact than a couple of quick chews and swallowing, so just sit down and keep chewing and swirling around in your mouth because the glucose will absorb quicker through the cells in your mouth (and closer to your brain) than a couple of clumps of jelly baby sitting in your stomach. Same with orange juice or other drinks. Swill it around your mouth well rather than glugging it down.
 
In the early days your body does really crave when your levels drop and it is hard to be disciplined, plus your mind goes a bit numb, so I could never remember how many JBs I had eaten. Now I have them in 2 JB portions, so I know exactly how many I have had. I know 2 JBs is just 10g carbs rather than the 15g carbs recommended which would be 3JBs but 1 or 2 is usually enough for me. I don't have anything else until 15 mins later when I check with a finger prick. Do not rely on Libre as it will inevitably show that your levels have dropped lower which can cause more panic, so ignore your Libre and just focus on your BG meter. If my levels have come up above 4 then I am happy and job done for me but many people need 10g of slower acting carbs then to stabilize things, so a single digestive biscuit. If your levels haven't come up above 4 after 15 mins, then have another 15g of fast acting carbs and finger prick again in another 15 mins.

Once you get into a routine of treating them your body stops panicking and craving and you should find they are easier to manage.
Thanks for the advice. I'm afraid its not early days for me - been on insulin for over 20 years but never quite sorted out the hypo bit ! I do ignore Libre and just reply on BG, once Libre has given me the trend. I usually hit the JB's but might be 5 for me and then I still worry when BG hasn' t gone up, so go for more carbs than I should so BG goes sky high after a couple of hours and then I'm dealing with a hyper. This isn't good and thanks for the advice....I will try to stay calm.
 
I calculate how may jelly babies would treat the current hypo. and eat those. They will appear slightly later ( according to your sensor) but eating more will send your BG into high levels. The rule I use is always use a blood test when correcting low levels and ignore the sensor, as @rebrascora says. Her plan follows my plan.
 
I usually hit the JB's but might be 5 for me and then I still worry when BG hasn' t gone up
The standard advice is to treat with 15g fast acting carbs which would be 3 JBs. The rule of thumb is that 10g of carbs will raise your levels by 3mmols, so even if you were down in the 2s, 2JBs (10g carbs) should take you to 5mmols and 3JBs into the 6s. 5JBs as the first treatment is too much, you need to have 3 and chew them really well and set a timer for 15 mins and then retest. If you regularly need a second 15g treatment at the 15 min mark, then something is wrong, either with your carb counting/ratio or basal insulin dose. If you have slow digestion, chewing them well is even more important.

Like @mikeyB I look at my reading and decide how many I will need and more often than not it is only 1 or 2JBs. So a 3.8 when I have just drifted down slowly into the red is usually just 1JB particularly if I will be having a meal soon or it is morning and I will be getting up soon. If I am on 3.8 but my Libre shows a downward vertical arrow, I will have 2JBs. Very rare I need 3.
 
With my kid I aim for ‘stop the drop’ and as long as he’s not going down further after 15 minutes we rarely add more carbs but recheck again in another 15 minutes. If he still isn’t above 4 at that stage (or very close) then he would get more carbs but probably fewer than the first lot. Some hypos can be really stubborn and take a long time to resolve but we try not to over treat as the bounce back high can be just as stubborn.
 
How often are you having hypos, you seem to be on quite a bit of medication, could it be something needs adjusting if they are happening frequently.
 
Usually I go for jelly babies and then onto some high carb foods (Bananas/bread/cake etc). The problem with this is that it screws up my control for nearly 24 hours afterwards.
If you are having to eat so much to stop a hypo, then you need to look at your insulin dosage. It sounds to me as if a bit of basal testing would benefit you and once that is done look at your carb ratio.
 
How often are you having hypos, you seem to be on quite a bit of medication, could it be something needs adjusting if they are happening frequently.
Since I went onto Libre (August) I have been trying to get my control tighter and have had to use a lot more insulin. This sort of works OK but every now and again I get a hypo - I think because my body makes a bit more insulin on one day than another. Maybe once every 2 weeks. I agree that something needs tweaking and I will see the practice nurse early next month to talk it through.
 
If you are having to eat so much to stop a hypo, then you need to look at your insulin dosage. It sounds to me as if a bit of basal testing would benefit you and once that is done look at your carb ratio.
I agree. Part of the problem is when in a hypo I panic (been on insulin for over 20 years and still panic !). When I panic I eat too much which gives me a hyper problem a couple of hours later on. It may well be I don't really need to eat that much when there is a hypo and there have been some good suggestions on this thread about how to do better. How would I do basal testing ? I have not come across this before.
 
I'll let others offer guidance on basal testing. But what strikes me is that basal (ie your background) insulin needs ro be right most of the time and you've told us that your hypos are "once every 2 weeks" - so I conclude this is not a basal problem. But I am not an expert nor medically qualified.

It seems to me that yes, fortnightly going hypo is still too frequent, but this sort of "infrequent" happening has got to be a combination of bolus food ratios in conjunction with some other factor. I'm slightly older than yourself; I try to live a normal and active lifestyle. But my reality is that my activity can vary hugely from day to day AND that changing activity level is extremely difficult to "quantify" in the sense of applying a numerical % reduction for my overall final bolus dose.

However when I'm active, for whatever reason, my natural insulin resistance is reduced, so any bolus insulin (basal not applicable here) already on board works more efficiently. Thus bolus arrives more speedily after injecting and mops up more surplus glucose in my blood - hence taking me low and towards hypo.

I no longer run a few km daily or even weekly and I never sprint to catch a bus - so my meaning of activity is lots of long walks, gardening, "household tasks", even shopping (can be deceptively wearing!). In contrast I rarely have a day when I do almost nothing; that's not my way. [But I can wake up feeling "off" and do nothing much - or my plan for the day can completely change, just because .... Then my BG management can also be noticeably "wrong" for what is almost the reverse reason.]

If I'm confident in advance that my day is going to be active, I will reduce my food bolus at breakfast time. My quandary almost every time is getting a precise or even a rough % for that bolus reduction. This "guesswork" has got better over the last 12 months and I seem to often use a 50% reduction. I will also apply a % reduction to my calculated evening meal bolus dose. During that busy day, often in the garden, I might either skip any lunch or just have low carb snacks and without any bolus. I might also continue with reduced bolus doses on the day after and even the 2nd day after. So this gives me a mechanism, albeit pretty crude, for managing my BG and adjusting my bolus insulin on board for any one day.

I'm not nervous about "under-bolusing" because of my 50% reduction. It is far, far better to drift towards being too high than it it is too low. Just small periods of being too low can have a detrimental affect on our cognitive abilities; whereas being unnecessarily high is pretty easily corrected with a modest bolus correction and long periods at higher levels can accentuate the risks of other diabetic medical complications - but these need a great deal more time at a highish level.

At risk of sounding arrogantly over-confident I rarely go hypo and generally expect to intercept a fall by having a snack and stopping the fall then nudging my BG into a small rise with perhaps a 2nd snack. Not just because I'm making my best effort to manage with bolus adjustments BUT I try to make full and best use of my CGM. I change (raise) the threshold for low alerts to make sure I'm getting full cautionary warning ahead of starting that busy day. I know that if I've got far too much insulin on board then intercepting a BG fall EVEN WITH help from CGM alerts will be much harder in practice.

I try to make best use of all the tools available to me - certainly having a reduction of food bolus to allow for activity and letting my CGM alert me in a timely manner are 2 major tools.

There are many, 42 and still counting, factors that affect our blood glucose and these can influence me to alter my net bolus doses. I'm attaching a link to an article from Diatribe that gives considerable insight into why BG management is such a complex problem.


Your tendency to panic sometimes, is at least implicit amidst these 42 factors - within the more generic heading of Behaviour and Decisions. Managing one's BG is simply Not Easy.

Have you come across Gary Scheiner's book "Think Like a Pancreas"? I was fairly much indoctrinated as a young adult that Knowledge Dispels Fear and "Think Like a Pancreas is, for me, a great help. My way of coping is to try and improve my understanding of what is going on, thus to find a possible explanation for why something has happened and thus to possibly prevent that from happening again. This is not always possible to achieve - in the real world; and when I have an unforeseen or inexplicable major BG change I then have to just accept that happened, put that event behind me and move on. I fully agree with your title to this thread "Need a Better Plan" but also know that sometimes there isn't an obvious better plan and then just respond to the event as best I can is my only sensible plan. There is no perfect way of managing our D.
 
Wow - thank you for taking the time to set your comments down. I wish I could go back 20 years and if I had taken care of myself then (as much as I do now) I don't think I'd have diabetes. Anyway we have to play with the hand we are dealt. Will re-read and take steps to improve my knowledge.
 
I agree. Part of the problem is when in a hypo I panic (been on insulin for over 20 years and still panic !). When I panic I eat too much which gives me a hyper problem a couple of hours later on. It may well be I don't really need to eat that much when there is a hypo and there have been some good suggestions on this thread about how to do better
If you feel you need to eat lots due to the hypo, then it's possible that you are getting a very rapid drop in blood sugars.
Do you have your Libre or cgm set to alarm at 5? If it's lower than 5 then perhaps look at setting to 5 so you can see the arrows thus if dropping treat then and there.
Do you think eating cheese or ham instead of carbs once you have had the initial hypo treatment would stop the must eat at all costs feeling?
 
If you feel you need to eat lots due to the hypo, then it's possible that you are getting a very rapid drop in blood sugars.
Do you have your Libre or cgm set to alarm at 5? If it's lower than 5 then perhaps look at setting to 5 so you can see the arrows thus if dropping treat then and there.
Do you think eating cheese or ham instead of carbs once you have had the initial hypo treatment would stop the must eat at all costs feeling?
Just looked back over the daily graphs. Most hypos are over about 3 hours...I think its just the panic that sets in. I will tweak the alarm as you suggest. Cheese/ham is a good alternative and I usually eat these anyway if I am feeling hungry but when BG is in range.
 
I need a better plan than just eating everything I can when I am having a hypo - always get a good warning of the hypo.

Usually I go for jelly babies and then onto some high carb foods (Bananas/bread/cake etc). The problem with this is that it screws up my control for nearly 24 hours afterwards.

I tend to panic when Libre/Finger pricks show nothing is happening.

How does everyone else manage this ?

Thanks

Robert
Hi,

Part of the problem is the advice for treating a hypo, which is take 3 jelly babies etc.

This really threw me. It implies treating a hypo is a one off fix. In reality, if you have taken too much insulin, it will keep acting beyond the initial treatment. So re testing is so important until blood sugar has been stabilised.
 
Hi,

Part of the problem is the advice for treating a hypo, which is take 3 jelly babies etc.

This really threw me. It implies treating a hypo is a one off fix. In reality, if you have taken too much insulin, it will keep acting beyond the initial treatment. So re testing is so important until blood sugar has been stabilised.
Yes, I retest to check what is happening .....and it seems to take forever for BG to start going up....hence more panic !!
 
I'm not sure jelly babies are optimal, I eat these at night but they are not as quick as a spoonful of sugar dissolved in your mouth and left there (i.e. not swallowed immediately.) I don't eat Dextrose tablets but imagine these would be even better when used in this way (as they contain glucose so there is no sucrase enzymatic reaction required before absorption - which does happen in both the mouth and stomach and is demonstrably quite fast, but still must be slower than no reaction at all).

I don't like jelly babies, but they are easy to count (both in the dark in terms of how many to eat, and in terms of carbs), I should probably use Skittles, but prone to miscounting during the night.

During they day I can overtreat as I eat something I want to eat, e.g. chocolate and then biscuits, and then continue dropping/get even hungrier/eat some more. I know I should sit down and ignore the feelings, which I will do if there's time, but I often need to go and do something (pick the kids up, meeting) so I need to make the low stop asap.

There is a time and place for "nice" treatments like this, but it's when you're not dropping so fast/are already low.

I've now started just eating a spoonful of sugar to get the initial bump up, then I can work out what to eat to avoid an overshoot/requirement for a correction.
 
Yes, I retest to check what is happening .....and it seems to take forever for BG to start going up....hence more panic !!
Stubborn hypos are really worrying. You are absolutely doing the right / best thing you can in those situations. Exercise (particularly un-planned) is another cause of hypos.
 
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