Dawn Phenomenon?

[Steve1984]

I seem to spike in the mornings and can only put it down to the dawn phenomenen. It happens whether I eat early or late the night before, whether I get up at different times, go to bed early or late, the type of food I eat, whether I eat carbs for dinner or no carbs I find it quite bemusing. It was really frustrating at first - my average glucose is around 6.0mmol now and I can be up at 8.5mmol in the morning and then within 2-3 hours I level out at to my average levels. Does anyone else experience this regularly? As I know I am always down within 3 hours and my average isn't increasing Ive kind of come to terms with it now but would love to be able to stop it happening of course!

 

[harbottle]

I’ve read a few papers about DP, and it seems for type 2s there’s not a lot you can do about it. It seems immune to most medication and may involve complex physiological changes and hormones. There are ‘ hacks’ people mention but there’s no real research showing if they work. The reason seems to be lack of insulin to deal with the rise generated by the liver triggered by hormones… plus insulin resistance.

(I seem to be lucky in that I don’t get it … yet)

 

[Steve1984]

Yes its quite a frustrating one. Do you know what any of the "hacks" are?

 

[harbottle]

Yes its quite a frustrating one. Do you know what any of the "hacks" are?

Some people reckon if they eat something (Low carb) it stops it, but I can't really see how given the root cause. Low carb the night before, exercise the night before are other hacks, but you appear to have tried this.

Exercise might help, as it'll suck up some glucose from the blood, but it may return back to a high level if the 'fixed point' has been raised.

Yours isn't that bad, though, and it doesn't stay high for long. In some people it's in double figure and can linger for quite a while.

 

[Steve1984]

Great, thanks for coming back to me I appreciate it. Well done on your numbers I see you were diagnosed with an HBAC1 of 83 and got it down to 36 in three months that's very impressive. I was diagnosed at 55 and the GP gave me three months to get mine down in order to stay off medication. Ive paid for a freestyle libre sensor the last two months to monitor things and my predicted HBAC1 is now saying 40. I know this is just an estimate however hopefully I will have at least gone from 55 into the prediabetic range which means I can continue doing what I am doing. Got the blood test next week so keeping everything crossed!

 

[harbottle]

Great, thanks for coming back to me I appreciate it. Well done on your numbers I see you were diagnosed with an HBAC1 of 83 and got it down to 36 in three months that's very impressive. I was diagnosed at 55 and the GP gave me three months to get mine down in order to stay off medication. Ive paid for a freestyle libre sensor the last two months to monitor things and my predicted HBAC1 is now saying 40. I know this is just an estimate however hopefully I will have at least gone from 55 into the prediabetic range which means I can continue doing what I am doing. Got the blood test next week so keeping everything crossed!

Ta, I was a little surprised it came down so quickly, as was the GP.
I need to arrange a blood test, although I think I'll be higher than 36 now as I'm eating more carbs.

 

[Steve1984]

Ta, I was a little surprised it came down so quickly, as was the GP.
I need to arrange a blood test, although I think I'll be higher than 36 now as I'm eating more carbs.

So they put you on medication even though you had come down to 36?

 

[Jinty2001]

I’ve read a few papers about DP, and it seems for type 2s there’s not a lot you can do about it. It seems immune to most medication and may involve complex physiological changes and hormones. There are ‘ hacks’ people mention but there’s no real research showing if they work. The reason seems to be lack of insulin to deal with the rise generated by the liver triggered by hormones… plus insulin resistance.

(I seem to be lucky in that I don’t get it … yet)

There’s also fat stopping the pancreas working and weight loss gets it working again as in my case.

 

[Steve1984]

There’s also fat stopping the pancreas working and weight loss gets it working again as in my case.

Hi Jinty, yes tried that aswell I am 21kg down since November when I was first diagnosed which has had a massive impact on my average daily mmol which now sits between 5 and 6 - when I first started monitoring it was all 7s and 8s. I sit between 4 and 5 some parts of the day aswell which was very rare even just 4-6 weeks ago so I'm doing my best to get it reduced or even into remission (I think I'm being a little too optimistic with that one) by my second hbac1 test next week. I've managed to completely change my diet although my hardest thing has been alcohol but when I do drink now Ill opt for hard seltzers or low carb beer as a pose to the ten pints of lager I used to consume regularly on a Saturday and these dont seem to affect my blood glucose too badly.

 

[harbottle]

So they put you on medication even though you had come down to 36?

I was told to take 1000mg of Metformin a day when I was diagnosed. When it came to 36 they cut the dose in half. It has been suggested that I stop it as they think I'm in 'remission'.

 

[Jinty2001]

I was told to take 1000mg of Metformin a day when I was diagnosed. When it came to 36 they cut the dose in half. It has been suggested that I stop it as they think I'm in 'remission'.

I am as well. I don’t take medication. Diet and weight loss. Good luck without medication

 

[Jinty2001]

Hi Jinty, yes tried that aswell I am 21kg down since November when I was first diagnosed which has had a massive impact on my average daily mmol which now sits between 5 and 6 - when I first started monitoring it was all 7s and 8s. I sit between 4 and 5 some parts of the day aswell which was very rare even just 4-6 weeks ago so I'm doing my best to get it reduced or even into remission (I think I'm being a little too optimistic with that one) by my second hbac1 test next week. I've managed to completely change my diet although my hardest thing has been alcohol but when I do drink now Ill opt for hard seltzers or low carb beer as a pose to the ten pints of lager I used to consume regularly on a Saturday and these dont seem to affect my blood glucose too badly.

Im struggling to lose just now. I’ve lost 1 stone 7 lbs and been going up and down for months. I think with yourself stopping the high carb beers is a big help. Sometimes I’ve listened to people in slimming groups and think they’ve gone to the wrong group and it’s their alcohol that needs sorting out. I’ve not drank for 40 years come next November. Stopped cigs over 20 years ago. I think I put everything into eating and over lockdown the sweets and lack of exercise I made myself diabetic. It was a shock tbh. I have to keep the weight off to keep remission. I am sure your doctor will be pleased with what you have achieved.

 

[Steve1984]

Im struggling to lose just now. I’ve lost 1 stone 7 lbs and been going up and down for months. I think with yourself stopping the high carb beers is a big help. Sometimes I’ve listened to people in slimming groups and think they’ve gone to the wrong group and it’s their alcohol that needs sorting out. I’ve not drank for 40 years come next November. Stopped cigs over 20 years ago. I think I put everything into eating and over lockdown the sweets and lack of exercise I made myself diabetic. It was a shock tbh. I have to keep the weight off to keep remission. I am sure your doctor will be pleased with what you have achieved.

Yes I think lockdown was an issue for so many people, I certainly started eating worse and drinking more alcohol just to pass the time of day! I think the habits I picked up then carried over and ended up with my diagnosis and although Im so disappointed in myself for taking my health for granted for all those years it has been a kick up the backside to actually do something about it.

 

[Jinty2001]

Yes I think lockdown was an issue for so many people, I certainly started eating worse and drinking more alcohol just to pass the time of day! I think the habits I picked up then carried over and ended up with my diagnosis and although Im so disappointed in myself for taking my health for granted for all those years it has been a kick up the backside to actually do something about it.

I thought I was being healthy and just had a “sweet tooth “ I must remind my dentist not to include it in my new dentures lol