Dawn phenomenon and fasting glucose testing

[Brambleberry]

Just talking to a colleague today and she said something interesting. I was explaining the Dawn phenomenon to her and what happens. Here response was, so if this happens what is the point of having a fasting glucose test then surely it is giving a false idea of what your average blood glucose level is....never thought of that....any thoughts?

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Just talking to a colleague today and she said something interesting. I was explaining the Dawn phenomenon to her and what happens. Here response was, so if this happens what is the point of having a fasting glucose test then surely it is giving a false idea of what your average blood glucose level is....never thought of that....any thoughts?

As I understand it it's not about average glucose levels so much as getting an idea of how well your body is regulating glucose in a situation without food being a variable.

 

[harbottle]

if the fasting test is high, then it indicates your metabolism is unable to deal with the glucose that is created when there is no dietary glucose/carbs available.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Just talking to a colleague today and she said something interesting. I was explaining the Dawn phenomenon to her and what happens. Here response was, so if this happens what is the point of having a fasting glucose test then surely it is giving a false idea of what your average blood glucose level is....never thought of that....any thoughts?

Do you low carb?

 

[Safran]

Had hard time explaining this to my local to diabetic nurse, who had no idea of the Dawn Phenomenon. Even the doctors did not understand that the dawn phenomenon caused problems with your hormones subsequently playing havoc with glucose levels, same as chronic pain and anxiety.

 

[harbottle]

This blog has some info about low carb diets and FBG:

Higher Fasting Glucose on Ketogenic Diets: Reason to Worry?

blog.designsforhealth.com

This refers to something called "physiological insulin resistance".

A slightly elevated fasting glucose in long-time low carbers or keto dieters is typically not cause for concern. As always, the full picture should be considered so that each measurement—be it glucose, A1c, insulin, triglycerides, LDL, or something else—can be interpreted as part of a dynamic system and within the proper context.

 

[helli]

Fasting Blood Test is a way to diagnose diabetes.
If you do not have diabetes, your body would react to the glucose dump from your liver and you would not see a rise in blood sugars. The liver dump happens to most people but it is only those of us with diabetes who notice it because our bodies cannot respond appropriately.

 

[harbottle]

Yes, before the hba1c test this was how diabetes was diagnosed. They also used a glucose test.

 

[Leadinglights]

I remember having an oral glucose tolerance test many years ago. You had to fast for 10 hours, then a blood sample was taken, you drank a glucose drink with a certain amount of glucose, sit for what seemed like ages but I think it was 2 hours and then another sample was taken.
That was then used to determine how you metabolised the glucose.
Things have perhaps moved on, so an HbA1C is more likely for diagnostic purposes.
Last time I had blood taken at the hospital phlebotomy there were people who were pregnant there for that test (OGTT) so it must still be being used.

 

[harbottle]

Yep, if it was over 11 then you were diagnosed as diabetic.

 

[grovesy]

I remember having an oral glucose tolerance test many years ago. You had to fast for 10 hours, then a blood sample was taken, you drank a glucose drink with a certain amount of glucose, sit for what seemed like ages but I think it was 2 hours and then another sample was taken.
That was then used to determine how you metabolised the glucose.
Things have perhaps moved on, so an HbA1C is more likely for diagnostic purposes.
Last time I had blood taken at the hospital phlebotomy there were people who were pregnant there for that test (OGTT) so it must still be being used.

About 20 years ago that was how I was diagnosed what was then known as impaired glucose tolerance( now pre diabetes).

 

[Jenny65]

If its under 11 then even with the glucose dump you should still be in range I guess.

 

[Brambleberry]

Do you low carb?

Yes I low carb

 

[Brambleberry]

Had hard time explaining this to my local to diabetic nurse, who had no idea of the Dawn Phenomenon. Even the doctors did not understand that the dawn phenomenon caused problems with your hormones subsequently playing havoc with glucose levels, same as chronic pain and anxiety.

Yes i have chronic pain I know exactly what you are saying and chronic fatigue to go with it.

 

[Brambleberry]

I remember having an oral glucose tolerance test many years ago. You had to fast for 10 hours, then a blood sample was taken, you drank a glucose drink with a certain amount of glucose, sit for what seemed like ages but I think it was 2 hours and then another sample was taken.
That was then used to determine how you metabolised the glucose.
Things have perhaps moved on, so an HbA1C is more likely for diagnostic purposes.
Last time I had blood taken at the hospital phlebotomy there were people who were pregnant there for that test (OGTT) so it must still be being used.

Yes we talked about glucose intolerance in those days

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Had hard time explaining this to my local to diabetic nurse, who had no idea of the Dawn Phenomenon. Even the doctors did not understand that the dawn phenomenon caused problems with your hormones subsequently playing havoc with glucose levels, same as chronic pain and anxiety.

To the nurse, who suggests a typical diet approved by the NHS, which doesn't cause physiological insulin resistance, confronted by a patient who is following a diet that causes these issues, it would be hard to understand why the patient carries on doing it.